Quantum Physics and Consciousness

[stereologist]

We have to remember that papageorge1 claims the existence of evidence that is not produced. papageorge1 claims that there exist respected sources which are not named. papageorge1  claims these respected sources have lots and lots of evidence which is never shown.

These are the sorts of assurances we expect from con artists, scammers, politicians, ... .

[Aquila King]

(doesn't really further the conversation much, but it's funny and still applies)

[Emma_Acid]

On 11/20/2017 at 9:56 PM, SmokeRider said:

Why do people 'have to accept that there is no evidence' ? Why is this important? What group of people HAVE to have their evidence? Probably not the spiritualists. I can believe in faeries and still lead a happy productive life.

I've said this before and I'll say it again - "harmless" beliefs are the middle ground that allow dangerous ones to exist.

You would not get homeopathy offered as a cure for HIV if it wasn't offered to cure acne. The fact that people allow un-evidenced things into every day culture as "real" paves the way for all sorts of evils - alternative treatments replacing real medicine for illnesses like Aids and cancer; vulnerable people given false "buried" memories of abuse in regressive hypnotherapy; even children being maimed and murdered as witches or victims of possession are put in this situation because their society accepts various things that are total bullsh*t as "real".

Don't be part of this middle ground. Employ critical thinking to your own life and everything your approach and the world will be a slightly better place for it.

[Opus Magnus]

Unless one of these things turns out to be real, in which case you are the dangerous one. Because these medical 'facts' are constantly being corrected and changed. Even when in ancient medicine they were understood, but the harmful poisons you try to force down our throats that cause cancer instead of cure it while you petition to take away our rights like an idiot.

[Emma_Acid]

27 minutes ago, Opus Magnus said:

Unless one of these things turns out to be real, in which case you are the dangerous one. Because these medical 'facts' are constantly being corrected and changed. Even when in ancient medicine they were understood, but the harmful poisons you try to force down our throats that cause cancer instead of cure it while you petition to take away our rights like an idiot.

Oh god. This might be the worst possible reaction to my statement it's ever possible to make. Christ almighty.

 

Edited December 6, 2017 by Emma_Acid

[SHaYap]

Careful there Emma ... or one might say that the Spirits finally 'moved' you

~

[stereologist]

One of the curious things about believers in things like homeopathy is that they are quick to point out that medicines can be toxic. Quite true. Ineffective materials such as homeopathic medicines are not toxic. Then again they do nothing, they cure nothing other than vague and mild conditions that most people can simply disregard. The purveyors of quackery love making all sorts of baloney claims instead of defending the garbage they use to kill people. They kill people by delaying their access to real medicines. They kill and harm people every year. One of the great disasters has been the quackery associated with the AIDS epidemic in Africa.

Instead of pointing out the obvious that medicine is learning to deal with difficult cases such as cancer, let's hear how the alternative methods can deal with issues more difficult than a headache, or feeling tired, or simple aches, or feeling blah.

[Emma_Acid]

6 minutes ago, stereologist said:

One of the curious things about believers in things like homeopathy is that they are quick to point out that medicines can be toxic. Quite true. Ineffective materials such as homeopathic medicines are not toxic. Then again they do nothing, they cure nothing other than vague and mild conditions that most people can simply disregard. The purveyors of quackery love making all sorts of baloney claims instead of defending the garbage they use to kill people. They kill people by delaying their access to real medicines. They kill and harm people every year. One of the great disasters has been the quackery associated with the AIDS epidemic in Africa.

Instead of pointing out the obvious that medicine is learning to deal with difficult cases such as cancer, let's hear how the alternative methods can deal with issues more difficult than a headache, or feeling tired, or simple aches, or feeling blah.

Absolutely. The legacy of quackery - from anti-colonial sentiment driving HIV sufferers away from life saving "western" medicine in South Africa, to the jump in vaccination refusals and subsequent outbreaks that follow Andrew Wakefield around the States - has cost so much in terms of human life, and this quackery is legitimized by "soft" alternative practices. 

[stereologist]

29 minutes ago, Emma_Acid said:

Absolutely. The legacy of quackery - from anti-colonial sentiment driving HIV sufferers away from life saving "western" medicine in South Africa, to the jump in vaccination refusals and subsequent outbreaks that follow Andrew Wakefield around the States - has cost so much in terms of human life, and this quackery is legitimized by "soft" alternative practices. 

The AIDS epidemic is far greater than South Africa. In east equatorial countries people were told that AIDS was placed in condoms by the US and European countries. People were urged to utilize alternative methods for cures across a vast portion of sub Saharan Africa.

An important issue for people to understand is that real medicine tracks problems with real practices. Alternative methods are not tracked. Deaths and crippling problems due to smallpox, yellow fever, polio, mumps, rubella, whooping cough, scarlet fever, etc. have been dealt with. Now medicine is on to harder problems such as cancer. Alternative medicine is still messing around with feeling tired, headaches, simple aches, etc.

What I find most interesting is that believers in these alternative practices like to point out that the ineffective materials used are not the cause of death. That is true. It was the indifference of the supplier that allowed the disease to kill the patient. Had a real medicine been used there would have been at least some chance for the patient to survive.

[+Hammerclaw]

On ‎12‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 8:33 AM, Opus Magnus said:

Unless one of these things turns out to be real, in which case you are the dangerous one. Because these medical 'facts' are constantly being corrected and changed. Even when in ancient medicine they were understood, but the harmful poisons you try to force down our throats that cause cancer instead of cure it while you petition to take away our rights like an idiot.

Practically anything--even water--ingested in excessive amounts can kill you. As an adult, you can refuse any medicine you don't want, any treatment you can refuse. You can, in complete freedom, ignore a hundred years of medical advances and resort to your ju-ju berries, untested concoctions, chant your mantras, finger your beads and pray to whatever Gods there be. Don't worry; when it's all over and you are no more, someone will write your folks.

[I'mConvinced]

Not sure if it was covered in the thread or not but on the topic of Schrödinger's cat the thought experiment was never meant to prove anything, it was designed to show the supposed paradox at the heart of the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics. It does this quite well by showing us that, on our macro level at least, that quantum affected system does not exist in both states simultaneously - the cat is either dead or alive and definitely not both simultaneously, as the Copenhagen interpretation would suggest.  Experimentation is ongoing but none of it will involve any cats in boxes.

This is my non-scientist understanding of it but more learned people can feel free to correct me.

[+joc]

I've always thought that was an incredibly stupid (Shcrodinger's Cat) way to look at anything.  You don't know if the cat is dead or alive...so the cat is dead and alive at the same time....Come back next week...if the cat is dead it will stink...just as the whole theory stinks.

If you take all of this thinking to it's ultimate conclusion...it is just another exercise into the question is there God?  According to the explanation in the video, I look at something, you look at me, he looks at you, she looks at him, eventually all that looking is seen by The Ultimate Eye...that Etheric Consciousness which has no body, but determines what is and isn't.  

The question goes something like this:  If God created all that is...Who created God?

So much of quantum thinking is blah, blah, blah...because it evades the answer to the question which has always been blatantly obvious.

God created nothing.  And Nothing created God.

The Cat has the potential to be dead or alive...it is either DEAD or ALIVE and the probability that the cat can be both is just, in a word, stupid.

And Emma Acid is correct...A little 'twisted belief' set in concrete...hardens into a LOT of 'twisted belief' ....look around you see it in every aspect of our lives...from Religion to Politics to Science.

[Emma_Acid]

23 hours ago, stereologist said:

The AIDS epidemic is far greater than South Africa. In east equatorial countries people were told that AIDS was placed in condoms by the US and European countries. People were urged to utilize alternative methods for cures across a vast portion of sub Saharan Africa.

An important issue for people to understand is that real medicine tracks problems with real practices. Alternative methods are not tracked. Deaths and crippling problems due to smallpox, yellow fever, polio, mumps, rubella, whooping cough, scarlet fever, etc. have been dealt with. Now medicine is on to harder problems such as cancer. Alternative medicine is still messing around with feeling tired, headaches, simple aches, etc.

What I find most interesting is that believers in these alternative practices like to point out that the ineffective materials used are not the cause of death. That is true. It was the indifference of the supplier that allowed the disease to kill the patient. Had a real medicine been used there would have been at least some chance for the patient to survive.

Agree with all your points. On the last bit I'd add that often unwanted or poisonous ingredients are used in alternative medicines and there is very little way of regulating it effectively it seems.

[Opus Magnus]

On 12/08/2017 at 5:02 PM, Hammerclaw said:

I don't see anything particularly "Christian" about self-righteous gloating over the misery of others. If that's what Christianity means to you, at least have the decency of keeping it to yourself.

There's a lot of ignorance to who Jesus really is, but whatever. Everything returns 3 ways, the saying goes.

Melchisidec.

[LightAngel]

28 minutes ago, Opus Magnus said:

There's a lot of ignorance to who Jesus really is, but whatever.

 

Who is Jesus to you?

[Aquila King]

1 hour ago, LightAngel said:

Who is Jesus to you?

Whatever's most convenient to him. As is the same with all Christians.

[LightAngel]

4 hours ago, Aquila King said:

Whatever's most convenient to him. As is the same with all Christians.

 

Not all Christians are the same.

Judgemental behavior can come from all sides in our world!

[rashore]

Thread cleaned.

Folks, keep you commentary sensible, courteous, and on topic please.

[Opus Magnus]

On 12/09/2017 at 8:44 PM, Aquila King said:

Whatever's most convenient to him. As is the same with all Christians.

Not so, it comes from reading the scripture, and putting it into practice. It really isn't convenient a lot.

[taniwha]

What happens if you close a dead cat in a box?  Is it now either dead and alive?

What if you close a live cat in a box with a dead cat?  

And.......what happens if you fill the box with an empty box?

[Rlyeh]

2 hours ago, taniwha said:

What happens if you close a dead cat in a box?  Is it now either dead and alive?

What if you close a live cat in a box with a dead cat?  

And.......what happens if you fill the box with an empty box?

All the experiment is really doing is trying to link a cat to the superposition of a quantum system.

[XenoFish]

2 hours ago, taniwha said:

What happens if you close a dead cat in a box?  Is it now either dead and alive?

What if you close a live cat in a box with a dead cat?  

And.......what happens if you fill the box with an empty box?

Please read.

http://www.iflscience.com/physics/schrödinger’s-cat-explained/

[Opus Magnus]

1 hour ago, Rlyeh said:

All the experiment is really doing is trying to link a cat to the superposition of a quantum system.

It's about the uncertainty principle. You can't know where the cat is, and where it's going at the same time in this experiment. The line blurs in the middle of it either being dead or alive, in our thoughts we wonder, but it will end up being one or another. It's really a sort of illusion.

That's why there are laws of forgiveness for ignorance. The uncertainty principle keeps us in ignorance of one of the outcomes always, and if you don't forgive the ignorance of the other side you will run into problems. Also, you will run into moral problems, dealing with the life of the cat, or people when this example is taken to real life. Like we were talking about before.

[Rlyeh]

14 minutes ago, Opus Magnus said:

It's about the uncertainty principle. You can't know where the cat is, and where it's going at the same time in this experiment. The line blurs in the middle of it either being dead or alive, in our thoughts we wonder, but it will end up being one or another. It's really a sort of illusion.

That's why there are laws of forgiveness for ignorance. The uncertainty principle keeps us in ignorance of one of the outcomes always, and if you don't forgive the ignorance of the other side you will run into problems. Also, you will run into moral problems, dealing with the life of the cat, or people when this example is taken to real life. Like we were talking about before.

Once again you don't even have a clue what you're rambling about. You're just wasting our time.

[Opus Magnus]

15 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

Once again you don't even have a clue what you're rambling about. You're just wasting our time.

No, you're just not smart enough to understand it. But most likely you're lying to get your way again and starting another problem.