Dyatlov Pass

[Helen of Annoy]

14 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

There were the first two bodies, those of Krivonischenko and Doroshenko, shoeless and dressed only in their underwear. The branches on the tree were broken up to five metres high, suggesting that one of the skiers had climbed up to look for something, perhaps the camp. Between the pine and the camp the searchers found three more corpses: Dyatlov, Kolmogorova and Slobodin, who seemed to have died in poses suggesting that they were attempting to return to the tent.^[11] They were found separately at distances of 300, 480 and 630 metres from the tree.

Finding the remaining four travellers took more than two months. They were finally found on 4 May under four metres of snow in a ravine 75 metres further into the woods from the pine tree. Three of those four were better dressed than the others, and there were signs that those who had died first had their clothes relinquished to the others. Dubinina was wearing Krivonishenko's burned, torn trousers and her left foot and shin were wrapped in a torn jacket.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyatlov_Pass_incident

 

How is that all figured out?

Easily, if the report is accurate. 

You find the bodies, you see who wears whose clothes, pathologist tells you who died approximately when and pretty exactly why.

There's no real mystery there - if the official report was true to the facts. Few people were hit with great force, enough to break their skull/ribs, inflicting injuries incompatible with life. Others died from hypothermia.

The mystery is what/who was so violent and why.

(I think the ravine excuse is ridiculous, you can't get so crushed falling from 5 metres height, not to mention it's simply idiotic to imply all three of the injured hikers landed on their heads or chest-first from a tree or down a mild slope, breaking no arms or legs.)     

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

3 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

(I think the ravine excuse is ridiculous, you can't get so crushed falling from 5 metres height, not to mention it's simply idiotic to imply all three of the injured hikers landed on their heads or chest-first from a tree or down a mild slope, breaking no arms or legs.)     

Ya, it's been beaten to death.  The 5 meters is a bit of a misnomer. let's not forget the 8 feet of snow on the ground. So they fall. top speed 15.5 mph.  Whoopie.

No, they did not get these injuries in a fall.

[docyabut2]

7 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Easily, if the report is accurate. 

You find the bodies, you see who wears whose clothes, pathologist tells you who died approximately when and pretty exactly why.

There's no real mystery there - if the official report was true to the facts. Few people were hit with great force, enough to break their skull/ribs, inflicting injuries incompatible with life. Others died from hypothermia.

The mystery is what/who was so violent and why.

(I think the ravine excuse is ridiculous, you can't get so crushed falling from 5 metres height, not to mention it's simply idiotic to imply all three of the injured hikers landed on their heads or chest-first from a tree or down a mild slope, breaking no arms or legs.)     

Ok all  ,if  the two groups separated from the two only in their underwear and died ,why did they separate? Was it because they had a big fight in the tent between them that cause more injuries?  That one group fell off that cliff and had more injuries,  and the others going back to the tent had injuries to.

Dyatlov and Vladimirovich going back to the tent , both had bruises in the metacarpophalangeal joints on both hands, which is common in hand-to-hand combat. Dyatlov was missing a tooth. He had bloody lips, while Vladimirovich had blood coming from his nose.

Also a  report of the falling

They fell in the ravine were they were found. As a fall in the ravine would have created injuries; and they were the only three injured. Dr. Vladimir B.  (a member of the original rescue team) has even said,"“The slope of a ravine had a range of heights from 3 up to 5 m (10 ft or 17 ft) in the general area where the skiers were found. It had an incline or angle of approximately 30 to 40 degrees. The opposite slope of the ravine was flat. The width of the ravine was approximately 40 metres or 130 ft.  It is quite possible that the injuries recorded could have been sustained by a “sudden” fall –

Edited June 18, 2019 by docyabut2

[Maureen_jacobs]

Perhaps they were marched out of the tent under threat of a firearm.  Perhaps a military installation felt as though they were too close to a secret base, or thought they were spying, so they asked them to march out an orderly fashion.  What happened next is obviously a mystery.  But that explains the careful prints in the snow.

[docyabut2]

22 minutes ago, Maureen_jacobs said:

Perhaps they were marched out of the tent under threat of a firearm.  Perhaps a military installation felt as though they were too close to a secret base, or thought they were spying, so they asked them to march out an orderly fashion.  What happened next is obviously a mystery.  But that explains the careful prints in the snow.

Marched out of the tent under threat of a firearm? but why were not  other footprints found, along with their  footprints with them?

Edited June 18, 2019 by docyabut2

[docyabut2]

3 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Ya, it's been beaten to death.  The 5 meters is a bit of a misnomer. let's not forget the 8 feet of snow on the ground. So they fall. top speed 15.5 mph.  Whoopie.

No, they did not get these injuries in a fall.

Another question, why didn't they stay together to keep that fire camp going on to survive? 

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

32 minutes ago, Maureen_jacobs said:

Perhaps they were marched out of the tent under threat of a firearm.

First of all, Maureen, the Dyatlov group was headed for Otortem mountain and they ended up on Dead Mountain. Nobody in the world knew they were there, and it is possible even *they* did not yet realize they were on the wrong mountain. Do you think that the Soviet military had a base up on a mountain...?  No. So how could the military figure out somebody was on "their" mountain and then dispatch a group of Rangers to confront them? Sounds very far fetched.

Also, where are the footprints? where are the ski tracks? The investigators were very specific about the lack of both and the lack of animal tracks, like yeti, as well.

32 minutes ago, Maureen_jacobs said:

Perhaps a military installation felt as though they were too close to a secret base, or thought they were spying, so they asked them to march out an orderly fashion.  What happened next is obviously a mystery.  But that explains the careful prints in the snow.

IMO and that of others, I am sure,  there are just too many strange events that happened that defy being a result of hostile humans, such as, the injuries that occurred to the 4 that went into the ravine. Nobody knows how those injuries happened, despite what my friend, Docyabut2 thinks :-)  Also, the 5 above the ravine that had the public funeral, they had dark skin and white hair and an aged look by the time of the wake. How?  Nobody has ever answered this, either.

Anyway, good posting ,Maureen

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

32 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

Another question, why didn't they stay together to keep that fire camp going on to survive? 

Nobody knows, docy.

the investigators believe that they had the fire for one hour to 1.5 hours. By the time the fire got low, they would be gone, of course. Further, investigators believe that all nine headed back toward the tent and about half way... they broke up!  and nobody knows WHY!!  Shortly after that, they were all lying in the snow, all having injuries, and dead or waiting to freeze to death, and nobody knows why that, too!

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

Quick note about the four that jumped the cliff into the ravine:

The first five bodies were found rather quickly but the four in the ravine were not found until early May. One of the recovery workers happened to glance down one day, and saw that a shrub or bush had a branch that was cut off by a knife. That is when the workers began to look in the ravine and they soon found the last four hikers.

That means these hikers who went into the ravine had time to think about what was happening - and I am sure they were watching what happened to the three in Dyatlov's group and the two at the camp fire. I am sure they knew they were next and they felt that as one last attempt to get away they would jump the cliff. But then someone obviously worried that the recovery teams would not think to look for them in the ravine, hence someone cut that branch to leave as a  marker.  How sad. They knew they were doomed.

Edited June 18, 2019 by Earl.Of.Trumps

[docyabut2]

15 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Quick note about the four that jumped the cliff into the ravine:

The first five bodies were found rather quickly but the four in the ravine were not found until early May. One of the recovery workers happened to glance down one day, and saw that a shrub or bush had a branch that was cut off by a knife. That is when the workers began to look in the ravine and they soon found the last four hikers.

That means these hikers who went into the ravine had time to think about what was happening - and I am sure they were watching what happened to the three in Dyatlov's group and the two at the camp fire. I am sure they knew they were next and they felt that as one last attempt to get away they would jump the cliff. But then someone obviously worried that the recovery teams would not think to look for them in the ravine, hence someone cut that branch to leave as a  marker.  How sad. They knew they were doomed.

I imagine they were running to get back to the tent, dark and no flash light and fell off that cliff .

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

12 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

I imagine they were running to get back to the tent, dark and no flash light and fell off that cliff .

Fine, Docy, but the tent is in the opposite direction.

[docyabut2]

On ‎6‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 8:36 AM, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Fine, Docy, but the tent is in the opposite direction.

Your right , but wonder why the two groups separated, they each had a women. Wonder if they were fighting over the girls.   

[Helen of Annoy]

6 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

Your right , but wonder why the two groups separated, they each had a women. Wonder if they were fighting over the girls.   

In short, what is wrong with you?   

 

[docyabut2]

6 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

In short, what is wrong with you?   

 

Nothing wrong:) just trying to find out why their tent was collapsed and those kids had to die  it is a unexplained mystery.

[Maureen_jacobs]

Those people died doing something that most folks don’t have the ability to do.  I also feel that regardless of their manner of death, hiking in that weather has risks, even for the most trained.  I doubt they were ill equipped, I just think something odd happened that no one could have ever planned for!  I do find it strange that no firearm was among the group.  Simply as an emergency backup for large animals, it may have helped save one if there was a large animal.  

Having their exposed skin appear aged and weathered is not uncommon in high wind areas.  The wind picks up the snow which then acts as a “sandblaster” which ruins an already dehydrated body.  Also, your skin does sink in upon decomposition which makes things appear much differently then your hydrated body.  Wish this one was solved.

Edited June 23, 2019 by Maureen_jacobs

[docyabut2]

10 hours ago, Maureen_jacobs said:

Those people died doing something that most folks don’t have the ability to do.  I also feel that regardless of their manner of death, hiking in that weather has risks, even for the most trained.  I doubt they were ill equipped, I just think something odd happened that no one could have ever planned for!  I do find it strange that no firearm was among the group.  Simply as an emergency backup for large animals, it may have helped save one if there was a large animal.  

Having their exposed skin appear aged and weathered is not uncommon in high wind areas.  The wind picks up the snow which then acts as a “sandblaster” which ruins an already dehydrated body.  Also, your skin does sink in upon decomposition which makes things appear much differently then your hydrated body.  Wish this one was solved.

It is strange those kids could not survive, not like most frontier men do survive in many ways  survivals  even in the freeze. Why didn't they  keep that fire they had going together and build another shelter, they could have built it out of wooden.  A fire would scare  large animals away. So I guess your right those kids didn't know any survivals:(  ok so there are many questions why their prior tent  did collapsed.        

[LucidElement]

What it comes down to for me - among many other things - when they left the tent why didnt they just go back for their clothes and build another tent? That to me is the million dollar questions... They were forced out of the tent for some reason, however, they never went back for their clothing, why? You would think if it the tent was smoking they could wait for the smoke to clear then either remain in the tent or pitch another one. But the fact they evacuated the tent and didnt return is baffling. The entire case is baffling but that segment to me drives me crazy.

[Helen of Annoy]

17 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

 those kids didn't know any survivals:(  ok so there are many questions why their prior tent  did collapsed.        

These kids were experienced hikers and skiers. And the older guy was WWII veteran. 

 

3 hours ago, LucidElement said:

What it comes down to for me - among many other things - when they left the tent why didnt they just go back for their clothes and build another tent? That to me is the million dollar questions... They were forced out of the tent for some reason, however, they never went back for their clothing, why? You would think if it the tent was smoking they could wait for the smoke to clear then either remain in the tent or pitch another one. But the fact they evacuated the tent and didnt return is baffling. The entire case is baffling but that segment to me drives me crazy.

Exactly.   

[Robotic Jew]

On 6/18/2019 at 3:16 PM, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Ya, it's been beaten to death.  The 5 meters is a bit of a misnomer. let's not forget the 8 feet of snow on the ground. So they fall. top speed 15.5 mph.  Whoopie.

No, they did not get these injuries in a fall.

I once broke 3 ribs falling 3 feet.

[Helen of Annoy]

23 minutes ago, Robotic Jew said:

I once broke 3 ribs falling 3 feet.

Yes, but that's you Kidding.

I once cracked a little a few of mine falling from my own two feet, so from no height at all, on a god damned metal bucket, may the one who left it there wears it on his head in the afterlife... kidding again, it was my own fault, my point was that it takes certain angle and if possible certain items to break your ribs without breaking anything else.   

One man could have fallen so weirdly - in snow! - to break only his ribs, or skull, without breaking any limbs, but not three of them. They were hit with force similar to being hit by a vehicle, according to pathologist. If the pathologist thought they probably fell into snow, or the snow slab and whatnot fell on them so they got broken like that, he would state so... oh, this reminds me of one other mystery  ... never mind... anyway,  hikers-skiers are very familiar with falling and snow in general. I'd say it makes any usual falling theories implausible.    

[Coil]

18 hours ago, LucidElement said:

What it comes down to for me - among many other things - when they left the tent why didnt they just go back for their clothes and build another tent? That to me is the million dollar questions... The entire case is baffling but that segment to me drives me crazy.

I already wrote earlier to Helen of Annoy that if we remain within the tent-escape-freeze version, you will not be able to unravel this case because even the Russian investigators knew about the original case and what happened there and about the second case, the official one, created for us about the death from the natural factor.And if you stay only within the framework of the second case, you will never know how everything was. Because there will be too many inconsistencies that are impossible to resolve and understand the actions of tourists.

Of course, we will not know why they were initially killed, whether they went to some kind of secret base or witnessed a secret test but the traces of the murder are clear on their bodies and recorded in a medical protocol that cannot be obtained from falling but rather from a blow by some sort of strong, blunt, long object.

If you stay within the version of the sudden abandonment of the tent, some of them were killed near the cedar and the rest were killed further and covered with snow, so no one could go back or take off the clothes of others and leave alive.In any case, people remain dead in the first case of a staging or in the second, the official case at the end.

[Helen of Annoy]

2 hours ago, Coil said:

I already wrote earlier to Helen of Annoy that if we remain within the tent-escape-freeze version, you will not be able to unravel this case because even the Russian investigators knew about the original case and what happened there and about the second case, the official one, created for us about the death from the natural factor.And if you stay only within the framework of the second case, you will never know how everything was. Because there will be too many inconsistencies that are impossible to resolve and understand the actions of tourists.

Of course, we will not know why they were initially killed, whether they went to some kind of secret base or witnessed a secret test but the traces of the murder are clear on their bodies and recorded in a medical protocol that cannot be obtained from falling but rather from a blow by some sort of strong, blunt, long object.

If you stay within the version of the sudden abandonment of the tent, some of them were killed near the cedar and the rest were killed further and covered with snow, so no one could go back or take off the clothes of others and leave alive.In any case, people remain dead in the first case of a staging or in the second, the official case at the end.

Which brings us back into complete darkness, because if the official investigation report cannot be trusted - as almost nothing from the USSR in 1950's cannot be trusted - we simply have no trustworthy information to start from. 

And the new investigation was announced with the results set in advance: basically, an avalanche or an avalanche  

[LucidElement]

3 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Which brings us back into complete darkness, because if the official investigation report cannot be trusted - as almost nothing from the USSR in 1950's cannot be trusted - we simply have no trustworthy information to start from. 

And the new investigation was announced with the results set in advance: basically, an avalanche or an avalanche  

Agreed. I think even the autopsy was fixed. Pay some hush money and fix the report.... Not sure if you guys saw the new TV Series Chernobyl, but without ruining anything, it seems like the same thing, KGB always tried to keep things under wraps and that was in 1986.   I can't imagine how it was back in the 50s.

[Helen of Annoy]

16 minutes ago, LucidElement said:

Agreed. I think even the autopsy was fixed. Pay some hush money and fix the report.... Not sure if you guys saw the new TV Series Chernobyl, but without ruining anything, it seems like the same thing, KGB always tried to keep things under wraps and that was in 1986.   I can't imagine how it was back in the 50s.

By the way, they deleted coil's links again. 

I'll PM them to you  

[Coil]

I did not save the translation; my hard disk does not work temporarily, so I load each time from the usb live linux.

In general, a secret missile deviated from the course due to the failure of one engine and fell in the Otorten area and a search group was sent there that exceeded the authority and in the resistance of the tourists killed the Dyatlov group. His head, general, was later killed by the KGB for a bloody murder and as the chief witness-performer, immediately after the closure of the case and the freezing scenarizers were distributed to different military garrisons or they were also killed.

In Moscow, having learned that the children of famous party people were killed, decided to conceal the crime by issuing it for freezing, so all criminal case was fabricated, the corpses were spread over their places, the tent was tensed and torn as if in a rush to leave the tent but they did all the work so badly that there were obvious incompatibilities in the scenario of freezing and avalanching. And the local authorities thought only that the faults of the crime should not fall on them and how to quickly shut up the case and close it. Those of the local authorities who covered the killings all received high posts in the future.

Edited June 25, 2019 by Coil