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Colt Storm

Teen Mental Health is Declining

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Piney
26 minutes ago, I'mConvinced said:

I'm not really sure what you are trying to say here.  So you grew up in a rough area and didn't want to kill yourself ergo the answer is for people to stab and shoot each other and we won't have so many child suicides? Or are you saying these things toughened you up and so all kids should go through this in order to be 'strong'? Or that we should introduce kids to the potential horrors of the world early and forcibly? Isn't all this just the same as saying 'well my dad beat me so I'm beating you!'.

Playing with electronic trash? As you are doing to converse with us here? So the solution to this is just take it away from them even as we demand they spend ever more time in front of them? Schools promote use of tablet, phone and computer and society demands more technologically competent and capable children who can code and design in order to prepare themselves for 'the future'.  There are many more forms of 'screen time' coming in the form or VR and AR and so this isn't going to go away

 

 
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I accidently quoted me with you

I'm on my office laptop I use for diagnosing and fixing equipment with motherboards.  but I don't have a smart phone. Just a flip phone because I have to pay attention to my surroundings when I'm working and I don't carry it unless I need it.As for beatings. My stepfather shot me and I never raised my voice with my kids. Real traditionalists don't believe in harsh discipline. That's some Christian trash. When I had my kids I made them do outdoor things like help with the horses or help at the mill or on the farm. I also don't believe that it's a school counselors job when a kid is emotional. That's a parents job.

 I lived around Jamaican Rastas, Black Muslims and Korean and Kalmyk Buddhists . They moved to the burbs. People need to get over it.

 What I'm saying is these little coddle bunnies don't have it that rough. 

 

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I'mConvinced
2 minutes ago, Piney said:

When I had my kids I made them do outdoor things like help with the horses or help at the mill or on the farm. I also don't believe that it's a school counselors job when a kid is emotional. That's a parents job.

Then lucky for you.  Most people these days don't have regular access to horses, a farm or a mill.  If I want to take my kid to 'experience nature' and do 'fun outdoors things' then I would need to move far away from here and begin a completely different life.  I suppose everyone could move out of the cities, take the land back from the land barons and live happily ever after in the woods but I don't see it happening or being a 'solution' to the modern problem.  We understand what is occurring but you can't just blame people for having to live in a modern world.

If I tried to go for a walk in the country here I'd likely be shot by an angry farmer for trespassing.

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Piney
3 minutes ago, I'mConvinced said:

Then lucky for you.  Most people these days don't have regular access to horses, a farm or a mill.  If I want to take my kid to 'experience nature' and do 'fun outdoors things' then I would need to move far away from here and begin a completely different life.  I suppose everyone could move out of the cities, take the land back from the land barons and live happily ever after in the woods but I don't see it happening or being a 'solution' to the modern problem.  We understand what is occurring but you can't just blame people for having to live in a modern world.

If I tried to go for a walk in the country here I'd likely be shot by an angry farmer for trespassing.

There's no parks? Game fields? You don't have a garage to set up a hobby shop?

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I'mConvinced
6 minutes ago, Piney said:

There's no parks? Game fields? You don't have a garage to set up a hobby shop?

There are parks, small ones usually full of people walking dogs etc and no more than a field.  No garage that doesn't have a car parked in it (welcome to the UK where land is a preeeemium).  No game fields that aren't part of a school or college.  My nearest 'large' park is a stately home about 30 mins drive away (no traffic) but they hardly encourage sport or activities there.  For many people it just isn't feasible when you live in a city or country that just doesn't have vast swathes of wilderness on your doorstep.  Would it be nice if it was different? Yes.  Is that going to be a reality for many? No.

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Piney
Just now, I'mConvinced said:

There are parks, small ones usually full of people walking dogs etc and no more than a field.  No garage that doesn't have a car parked in it (welcome to the UK where land is a preeeemium).  No game fields that aren't part of a school or college.  My nearest 'large' park is a stately home about 30 mins drive away (no traffic) but they hardly encourage sport or activities there.  For many people it just isn't feasible when you live in a city or country that just doesn't have vast swathes of wilderness on your doorstep.  Would it be nice if it was different? Yes.  Is that going to be a reality for many? No.

That's a shame. It really is.

I have one son in the city. I built a shop in his mother's basement so he can do his "Adam Savage" projects and loaded him up with cool pieces of wood. We are both Mountain bikers and I drag him out, but there is a bike park there.

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aztek

well you can tell us of thousands of reason why you can't do it,  but you will have to leave with the result down the line. maybe you should not look for excuses, but look for ways.

i live in nyc, where land is just as premium as in London, yet we find ways to get our kids ride bikes, play outside, build and fly rc planes, there is a riding academy 10 min from our place. kids love riding horses, we do everything possible so they are not idiots who waste their life on their phone, and social media,  i'm sure for someone who is looking for all of these things wil find them either in london, new york, or tokyo. 

but hey, those are your kids, whatever they become, depends completely on you.

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XenoFish
1 hour ago, I'mConvinced said:

Except they can do these days and the meteoric rise of competitive video gaming will only make this more so.  When you can earn millions every year from being the best at a computer game you can bet that this has an impact on the desirability of a medium.  Hell, if there had been these types of competition around when I was a kid I know for sure what I would have done.

The key to solving all of this is understanding, education and self imposed moderation - things us humans are terrible at doing, especially under capitalism (and yes, its the best of a bad lot).  I don't hold out much hope though as most people seem to think a brisk walk will sort all this out.

Yet your average kid is not a paid pro player. They may never be and to take gaming too seriously is not good. This is coming from a guy who'd wracked up 3000+ hours in an MP. You get too engrossed in it and start to become disconnected from the real world. I do agree that moderation is key. 

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Piney
7 minutes ago, aztek said:

well you can tell us of thousands of reason why you can't do it,  but you will have to leave with the result down the line. maybe you should not look for excuses, but look for ways.

i live in nyc, where land is just as premium as in London, yet we find ways to get our kids ride bikes, play outside, build and fly rc planes, there is a riding academy 10 min from our place. kids love riding horses, we do everything possible so they are not idiots who waste their life on their phone, and social media,  i'm sure for someone who is looking for all of these things wil find them either in london, new york, or tokyo. 

but hey, those are your kids, whatever they become, depends completely on you.

My grandnephews rather be with their grandmother and me beating the woods than in any Tokyo arcade. They want to be here for the holliday but their parents are military and all the problems with Kim Jong Jackass is forcing them to stay. This is one of the few cases where I am actually really frightened. 

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acute

I agree with I'mConvinced that we shouldn't blame the kids. I blame their parents.

Phones and tablets have replaced television as a cheap and easy babysitter.

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Colt Storm

Some of these kids are treated like "shelf ornaments". Brought out to show off and tossed back on the shelf, not too hard to become depressed after years of that treatment. It's heartbreaking.

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CrimsonKing

Meh if no woods and fields are around to excercise ones body and brain than think of something else...

Hell i think all of us had some kind of issues of our own at one time or another growing up,but sitting in front of a screen telling hundreds of people you don't even know how "upset" one is is not a solution...

Hell i had slight anger issues when i was younger so i made a punching bag one day,that turned into not only a release but also an interest and kept me outta trouble (mostly :lol:)from there a career...

One wouldn't believe how many gyms will let others train for free every now and then just for extra practice.One has to put the effort in to find such places and put the work in to not get beaten senseless lol but options are out there,though it may take effort to find them!

Most want everything handed to them now days and thats just not how life works...hell i've been told technically i'm a millenial :blink: but this generation 20 and below are some real soft humans!

 

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CrimsonKing
6 minutes ago, acute said:

I agree with I'mConvinced that we shouldn't blame the kids. I blame their parents.

Phones and tablets have replaced television as a cheap and easy babysitter.

Very true aswell :tu:

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glorybebe

I have a teenager who says she hates teenagers.  There are very few who have manners, they expect their parents to buy them a top of the line $900 phone yet, don't want to do chores. The self entitlement these days irks me to no end.

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I'mConvinced
24 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Yet your average kid is not a paid pro player. They may never be and to take gaming too seriously is not good. This is coming from a guy who'd wracked up 3000+ hours in an MP. You get too engrossed in it and start to become disconnected from the real world. I do agree that moderation is key. 

I understand but they are motivated by seeing the few who succeed. It's like celebrity culture, who wants a 'real' job when you can just sing and dance yourself rich, or worse, just do reality TV?

The problem isn't the screens, the technology has brought great benefits, it's the people controlling, promoting and profiting from the content. Computer games these days, especially mobile games, are often built, by adults for kids, and are based around addictive behavioural patterns and micro-transactions.

 

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I'mConvinced
24 minutes ago, CrimsonKing said:

Meh if no woods and fields are around to excercise ones body and brain than think of something else...

I agree, I'm merely stating it's not as easy as some people make it sound to simply step out into the wonderous world of nature and live 'the old way'.

To me it isn't just the disconnect with other humans but our disconnect with nature that causes so much stress and angst.

My main thrust though was to say that we blame the younger generation when they are only acting within the world we create for them. Corporations profit from the entitlement WE have engendered in our prodigy.

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XenoFish
22 minutes ago, I'mConvinced said:

My main thrust though was to say that we blame the younger generation when they are only acting within the world we create for them.

Can't the same be said of us. As we are a product of our time, so were our parents and so on and so forth. When I look back at the Saturday morning cartoons I used to watch, they all amounted to nothing more than long running commercials. Designed to get me and my friends to want the products created for the cartoon itself. He-man was a prime example of this. 

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Myles
2 hours ago, I'mConvinced said:

Except they can do these days and the meteoric rise of competitive video gaming will only make this more so.  When you can earn millions every year from being the best at a computer game you can bet that this has an impact on the desirability of a medium.  Hell, if there had been these types of competition around when I was a kid I know for sure what I would have done.

 

I don't think that even plays a factor.  Most kids have never even known someone who makes money from video games.  

They just cut kids off from real social practices.   The phones more so.   Social media has these kids thinking it is more important than it really is.  We, as parents, are in charge of limiting  the phone use.   My daughters know that since I pay the phone bills, I can open up and look through their phone at any time.  

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seeder
1 hour ago, I'mConvinced said:

There are parks, small ones usually full of people walking dogs etc and no more than a field.  No garage that doesn't have a car parked in it (welcome to the UK where land is a preeeemium).  No game fields that aren't part of a school or college.  My nearest 'large' park is a stately home about 30 mins drive away (no traffic) but they hardly encourage sport or activities there.  For many people it just isn't feasible when you live in a city or country that just doesn't have vast swathes of wilderness on your doorstep.  Would it be nice if it was different? Yes.  Is that going to be a reality for many? No.

 

2 things....first
 

Quote

 

 Access to nature reduces depression and obesity, finds European study

Trees and green spaces are unrecognised healers offering benefits from increases in mental wellbeing to allergy reductions, says report

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/21/access-nature-reduces-depression-obesity-european-report


 

 

I was raised in the country, endless fields, woods...but also lived in London, fast city life....crowded, but MANY BIG parks

anyway.... when I moved to where I am now.... I just opened a map...found my home...and just looked around my home for blue patches (lakes, rivers etc)...and green patches....or woods/parks etc.. then at weekends I would go explore what Id found

some were close, some a short car drive away...

I drove once from London to Sherwood Forest.....just to see Robin Hoods alleged tree/hideout....it was just another Forest, but, in my mind worth the drive.

I love getting out and about in nature.  My plans for winter are to drive to the coast, east and west coasts....walking on deserted beaches since its too cold for regular beach users...or exploring cliffs/rocks...and lucky for me, if its stormy/windy or lightning....I got clothes for that weather, and find it exciting to experience too..... we have the 4 seasons, seems some people only want to go out in the one season, and thats summer

same way as people spend 5 days a week looking forward to only 2 days, the weekend

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Tatetopa
9 hours ago, Piney said:

They rather be with Uncle Piney looking for fossils and artifacts and beating the woods and they act like kids from my generation.

Even I would like to look for fossils with Uncle Piney.

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glorybebe
1 hour ago, Myles said:

I don't think that even plays a factor.  Most kids have never even known someone who makes money from video games.  

They just cut kids off from real social practices.   The phones more so.   Social media has these kids thinking it is more important than it really is.  We, as parents, are in charge of limiting  the phone use.   My daughters know that since I pay the phone bills, I can open up and look through their phone at any time.  

That was my rule, too, much to my daughter's chagrin when I texted her "friend" and gave them **** for the sexual content in a text.  None of her friends ever sent something like that around again, and I was treated with respect by them since I cared.  None of their parents spent time with them.  The same boy told me he got condoms in his Christmas stocking when he was 12!! What is wrong with parents?  If you are going to ensure your children are going to practice safe sex, you think you could do it in a better mannert?  That is another problem with thr kids today they don't have parents, they have "best friends" or absentee guardians.

Edited by glorybebe
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Tatetopa
8 hours ago, XenoFish said:

I have no sympathy for anyone who offs themselves over online bullying. It's Darwinism at work. I say the same thing. Shut the damn thing off. Words don't hurt. Trust me. I survived Camden County, New Jersey's school system.

I still do.  I could be wrong, but in your lives, I bet  there was at least 1 person who cared about you and could validate you.  Uncle Piney, maybe you had an Uncle Hickory who first showed you those trails and told you how long your people had lived in those woods.  Xeno, you are not totally unlovable, I bet you had someone too.

As has been said in the thread, the internet is like a drug, and frequent users become addicts.  IT IS their world.  As has also been said, a lot of kids have no meaningful relationship with their parents.  There is no lifeline.   Mom and Dad are too busy or too tired or too wrapped up in their own problems to listen.  Kids don't become addicted to the internet if there is some parental control and there are options other than the internet to stimulate growth. They are not necessarily bad people, but parents and children live in their own boxes. If you are not religious, there are few family activities that include all.  Even old people get shuffled off to their own out of the way space.

You survive bullying and adversity only if you have a kernel of self worth that cannot be eroded.  That has to come from somewhere and be nurtured. 

Granted, I have only 1 son, I am not a child expert, but I have had a lot of experience with shelter dogs.  Forgive me if I step across your boundaries, but social mammals have a lot in common.  Dogs and humans are both social animals.  I have seen cringing, fearful mistreated shelter dogs abused in someone's home make a turn around and become relaxed happy pets if they are treated well and given that kernel of self worth and confidence.  Sometimes the abuse just amounts to being confined and totally ignored.  I don't mean to be insulting or belittle these teens, yet I see some of them and envision a traumatized dog cringing in a shelter kennel. Somebody needs to care about them and they need to realize that.  That's all it takes in most cases. 

Maybe I am just oversimplifying. Humans need social, mental, and physical stimulation for growth into happy well adjusted adults.  It is up to adults to supervise and guide young people through childhood and adolescence.   You wouldn't just let go of a three year old's hand at the curb and let them take their chances crossing the street.  Teenagers are not hardened adults either.  They still have a lot of social skills to learn.  That may be one reason why a two year old is not ready to leave home like a bear cub and begin life on its own.  There is a lot to learn to survive well in  our world.  Adults need to teach their children some of those survival skills and give them that unbreakable core.

 

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I'mConvinced
1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

Can't the same be said of us. As we are a product of our time, so were our parents and so on and so forth. When I look back at the Saturday morning cartoons I used to watch, they all amounted to nothing more than long running commercials. Designed to get me and my friends to want the products created for the cartoon itself. He-man was a prime example of this. 

Absolutely, it just wasn't as all pervasive as it is now. It's as agreed earlier it's about moderation.  One issue today is just how insidious marketing and the psychological tactics it employs have become. Combine this with a direct feed into the lives of kids (smart phones) and it's a recipe for disaster.

Yet these things are just a small part of the larger problem. 

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I'mConvinced
1 hour ago, Myles said:

I don't think that even plays a factor.  Most kids have never even known someone who makes money from video games.

I must beg to differ:

http://newsinsacramento.com/esports-on-a-meteoric-rise-in-2017/

Quote

Worldwide popularity for esports has skyrocketed! There are currently over 150 million “esports enthusiasts” on the earth in 2017, according to many market research firms who specialize in sports as well as gaming. Estimates have been made that 22% of American male millennials watch esports, putting it on the same tier as both baseball and hockey in terms of viewership. It was just last year that showed esports events had sold out everything from the Staples Center in Los Angeles to the beloved Madison Square Garden in NY

Don't forget that I'm not singling this out as the main cause of anything. I'm making the point that just like celebrity culture it makes for an alluring prospect as a career. It's just one more reason to sit on your backside consuming media and kids lap it up:

Quote

Bringing in an estimated $493 million in revenue in 2016—up 51.7% from 2015—projections have been made that by 2019, esports revenue will race by the $1 billion mark. When it comes to evaluating the current industry, advertising and sponsorship dollars are out of this world. Sponsorship mainly comes in the form of game publishers who use this esports craze as a means to increase their own games’ popularity. However, when it comes to advertising, household-name brands are throwing money into the esports ‘arena’ in order to reach out to the younger digital gamers out there; names like, Coca-Cola, who actually sponsors the ‘League of Legends World Championships.’

I definitely think things like this affect kids and the choices they make. I know it would have affected me, I'm just too old for it to be a problem.

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Piney
1 hour ago, Tatetopa said:

I still do.  I could be wrong, but in your lives, I bet  there was at least 1 person who cared about you and could validate you.  Uncle Piney, maybe you had an Uncle Hickory who first showed you those trails and told you how long your people had lived in those woods.  Xeno, you are not totally unlovable, I bet you had someone too.

As has been said in the thread, the internet is like a drug, and frequent users become addicts.  IT IS their world.  As has also been said, a lot of kids have no meaningful relationship with their parents.  There is no lifeline.   Mom and Dad are too busy or too tired or too wrapped up in their own problems to listen.  Kids don't become addicted to the internet if there is some parental control and there are options other than the internet to stimulate growth. They are not necessarily bad people, but parents and children live in their own boxes. If you are not religious, there are few family activities that include all.  Even old people get shuffled off to their own out of the way space.

You survive bullying and adversity only if you have a kernel of self worth that cannot be eroded.  That has to come from somewhere and be nurtured. 

Granted, I have only 1 son, I am not a child expert, but I have had a lot of experience with shelter dogs.  Forgive me if I step across your boundaries, but social mammals have a lot in common.  Dogs and humans are both social animals.  I have seen cringing, fearful mistreated shelter dogs abused in someone's home make a turn around and become relaxed happy pets if they are treated well and given that kernel of self worth and confidence.  Sometimes the abuse just amounts to being confined and totally ignored.  I don't mean to be insulting or belittle these teens, yet I see some of them and envision a traumatized dog cringing in a shelter kennel. Somebody needs to care about them and they need to realize that.  That's all it takes in most cases. 

Maybe I am just oversimplifying. Humans need social, mental, and physical stimulation for growth into happy well adjusted adults.  It is up to adults to supervise and guide young people through childhood and adolescence.   You wouldn't just let go of a three year old's hand at the curb and let them take their chances crossing the street.  Teenagers are not hardened adults either.  They still have a lot of social skills to learn.  That may be one reason why a two year old is not ready to leave home like a bear cub and begin life on its own.  There is a lot to learn to survive well in  our world.  Adults need to teach their children some of those survival skills and give them that unbreakable core.

 

OH LORD!! Truth, truth and truth! These people do treat their kids like objects. They've become so materialistic a kid or dog is just another possession. I've seen it a lot among the white collar yuppies at my Friends Meeting.Depending on schools and childcare to raise them. Making them socially retarded.

I had a Grandpop Joseph. One of the greatest baybillies (outdoorsman with nautical skills) in the Pine Barrens!

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