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Will Due

Contact - the Objective Evidence

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I'mConvinced
3 hours ago, Will Due said:

The UB does not claim the universe is run by a race of ancient aliens. It says that the universe was created by God, the Universal Father, the First Source and Center, and that he upholds it and controls it, now and forever. 

 

Fair enough Will, I'll retract the ancient aliens and replace it with God/The Cosmic Consciousness.

The point stands though. Either the UB and the things Mr Walker describes match in significant fashion or one is wrong. 

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jmccr8
57 minutes ago, I'mConvinced said:

Fair enough Will, I'll retract the ancient aliens and replace it with God/The Cosmic Consciousness.

The point stands though. Either the UB and the things Mr Walker describes match in significant fashion or one is wrong. 

Or that they are both mis-leading if there is one or two competing god/aliens/men.

Given the UB and Walker exert the same claim that they can't affirn any known science only past and future. In the case of the UB that would be the 1930s and for Walker it can be right up to tomorrows he will claim did that was there.

I am still curious as to how Walker explains that in the UB there are over 600 seeded planets with the same genetic groups of specific colors of people that were designed as inferiors. That would seem to suggest that the universal consciousness is not interested in universal love and equallity. Is his the same or diffenent and how, as well if both alien heirarchy groups exist why did your alien didn't tell you about it.

jmccr8

Edited by jmccr8
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Mr Walker
11 hours ago, I'mConvinced said:

There is a bit of a flaw in logic here.  Those people may have very different takes on the meaning of being Australian or what Australian politics is about but they will both be able to describe Australia, as a physical place, with a huge number of similarities.  Both are likely to give the same (or very similar) answers to questions about who runs the country, where it is located in relation to other countries, what the indigenous wildlife is like, what sort of climate it has etc.  These sorts of similarities should occur in your description of the cosmic consciousness and that of the UB, if they are indeed describing the same thing.  

To give an example you and the UB claim the universe is run by a race of ancient aliens.  What these aliens look like, where they come from and when this all happened should all tie together in most of the details, after all the UB was written by the aliens and your contact is direct and conversational with them.  The meaning, intent and method are not important to getting the basic descriptive facts right and if one disagrees with the other then it needs explanation as this would point to one being wrong.

That was my point.  If people from a real country can't agree on what that country is like, how can peole with   a huge range of experiences from the very tangential contact  to complete immersion over years,  know and understand  gods, aliens or the universe,  in a consistent manner.  When many people only have contact through dreams and visions , others have physical visitations and manifestations in a variety of forms,  while others have nothing but books written by others to guide them to an understanding, how can any two people come to a common understanding or common knowledge 

My main point is this. Take a country or a woman and any two  people. The country and the woman are what they are  BUT those two people will perceive/ understand/ regard etc., the country and the woman in different ways because they have different values, beliefs, opinions, world  views etc

For a human mind nothing is actually as it is, and everything is as we perceive and believe it to be. There is little we can do about that, except to learn the skills of objective perception and analysis, understand every bias we have, and every construct we create, and allow for them all.  

In my case the aliens "running the show " are so technologically advanced that the y can control/ manipulate, and alternate between,  energy and matter "at will" Thus the y can project or manifest in any form they choose, to facilitate  communication with species all over the galaxy and can communicate mind to mind.    They come from the centre of the galaxy  (And the communication hubs centre on that area )  from what i can work out,  and most of the more advanced species also evolved there. We are a bit out in the boondocks  on the end of a spiral arm.

   However it is possible they are not limited to the galaxy . They, like all life in,the universe are naturally evolved products of the universe not its creators

In my case i claim to have explored some parts of our galaxy and connected to some of the alien forms which live within it  I believe this was possible by riding on/in the consciousness of the cosmic consciousness and aided by a physical and technological communication network engineered for this very purpose   Of course i was a child and a teenager during most of this period, and i cant verify any of it EXCEPT  that, as space exploration discovers the solar system it continually confirms and verifies what i found in my ealry exploration of it   60-50  years ago.

About 55 years ago i flew over and through those geysers on planetary moons like Enceladus  which were only discovered  by science to exist in 2005 i didn't know what the name of the moon was and i am not even sure i knew the planet, but yet ,as i passed by the moons i saw these geysers and flew down to investigate Thus i am open to believe that my wider explorations were similarly accurate .    

As i said urantia attributes religious meaning to these things while  i do not.  I see a form of benevolent civil government,  but them i was raised a secular humanist and this influences my perception of  what i encounter   A devout catholic who had the same experience would  probably see heaven,  god, angels  etc. 

it is our " primitive state of mind "which leads us to think of these beings as gods or magical.

i suspect they would laugh if they weren't so kind hearted  Due to complete self awareness the y have a wonderful sense of humour unfettered by prejudices, fears, or lack of understanding of self /non self.

   They certainly don't see themselves as gods, although the y are not beyond using our perception of them as gods to encourage our behaviours  But urantia is also right Their aim for us in the future is for us to become like them and one day, as we mentor other evolving species from a distance, we might also be thought  of as gods, by those species  

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Mr Walker
2 hours ago, I'mConvinced said:

Fair enough Will, I'll retract the ancient aliens and replace it with God/The Cosmic Consciousness.

The point stands though. Either the UB and the things Mr Walker describes match in significant fashion or one is wrong. 

I find enough in common to see that it is the perception of myself compared to the perception of the writers /readers of the urantia books   which differs, not necessarily the physical reality  For example, angels are real and powerful and intervene physicaly and effectively in human lives   I see them as avatars of god/the cosmic consciousness urantia folows orthodox doctrine that these are lesser powerful beings who work for god and even has a hierarchy of their power roles and duties.

Reading the roles of the earth hierarchy in  wills source i could easily fit myself in at the lowest level  if i had the hubris to do so.

It is how i see my role in my partnership with the comic conscious ie i am given knowldge skills and abilities to help my fellow man and to improve the earths environment    Thus i can see how and why those hierarchies were constructed. However i interpret the connection between the consciousness and man as a uniquely individual one not based on organisation or hierarchy . Again, that probably reflects my own individualism and dislike of hierarchical authority unless it is merit based.  People who like or need a hierarchic authority to feel safe will construct one from what  they observe, 

   When you encounter an angel the first time, you usually don't have a lot of information to work with, so your existing  beliefs and understandings fill in the gaps, unless you keep an open mind.

Even years of contact and experience which allows ongoing observation cant give you  all the answers although it can confirm more of the nature and abilities of these entities 

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Mr Walker
5 hours ago, Will Due said:

@Mr Walker

I'm curious. Do you believe in a personal God? That he's the Father in heaven and that we are his sons and daughters?

 

 

 

Those words all have intellectual and emotional attachment which make an answer difficult  

I KNOW  there is an entity which cares about me and connects with me and protects me, empowers me, educates me, and gives me directions, which I can follow or not.

Thus it is not a matter of belief  for me.  It is as real and physical as my wife or dogs.

This entity is the same one which humans think of and call god.  in many forms, religions, and personal encounters.

 It exists around us and within us and we exist within it due to its nature.  it can access us ad we can access it to become one with it.
However I don't see any relgion in it, except  what humans, including myself, choose to attribute to it.

it has never called itself god to me  And i had to think long ad hard about what it was  Eventually, the name i came up with in first contact as a child seemed most appropriate  Ie the cosmic or universal consciousness/

This is because, while some connections are on a physical level and it can manifest physically, the critical connection is one of conscious awareness 

Humans think of a powerful figure as father in masculine societies or as a mother in more equal ones   it certainly acts like a loving father in many ways teaching protecting empowering and allowing individual responsibility and thus growth

Where i would  suspect i diverge from  your beliefs is in the origin and power of this "being"

It is, in my understanding, an ancient evolved product of the universe. It is powerful, wise, and knowledgeable but it did not preexist our universe, nor did it create it.

It my now be immortal due to its own abilities and technologies, but it didn't begin that way  it was not always wise or gentle and kind.  This is why we are told that one day humans will have the same attributes and abilities even though we are products of evolution Certainly it has been watching over and intervening in human lives since we first evolved the self awareness required to recognise its presence    

More than its sons and daughters, we are actually one with it, and it is one with us, as are  all  sufficiently   self aware  things in the universe.  

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jmccr8
On 09/12/2017 at 3:04 PM, Mr Walker said:

That was my point.  If people from a real country can't agree on what that country is like, how can peole with   a huge range of experiences from the very tangential contact  to complete immersion over years,  know and understand  gods, aliens or the universe,  in a consistent manner.  When many people only have contact through dreams and visions , others have physical visitations and manifestations in a variety of forms,  while others have nothing but books written by others to guide them to an understanding, how can any two people come to a common understanding or common knowledge 

My main point is this. Take a country or a woman and any two  people. The country and the woman are what they are  BUT those two people will perceive/ understand/ regard etc., the country and the woman in different ways because they have different values, beliefs, opinions, world  views etc

For a human mind nothing is actually as it is, and everything is as we perceive and believe it to be. There is little we can do about that, except to learn the skills of objective perception and analysis, understand every bias we have, and every construct we create, and allow for them all.  

In my case the aliens "running the show " are so technologically advanced that the y can control/ manipulate, and alternate between,  energy and matter "at will" Thus the y can project or manifest in any form they choose, to facilitate  communication with species all over the galaxy and can communicate mind to mind.    They come from the centre of the galaxy  (And the communication hubs centre on that area )  from what i can work out,  and most of the more advanced species also evolved there. We are a bit out in the boondocks  on the end of a spiral arm.

   However it is possible they are not limited to the galaxy . They, like all life in,the universe are naturally evolved products of the universe not its creators

In my case i claim to have explored some parts of our galaxy and connected to some of the alien forms which live within it  I believe this was possible by riding on/in the consciousness of the cosmic consciousness and aided by a physical and technological communication network engineered for this very purpose   Of course i was a child and a teenager during most of this period, and i cant verify any of it EXCEPT  that, as space exploration discovers the solar system it continually confirms and verifies what i found in my ealry exploration of it   60-50  years ago.

About 55 years ago i flew over and through those geysers on planetary moons like Enceladus  which were only discovered  by science to exist in 2005 i didn't know what the name of the moon was and i am not even sure i knew the planet, but yet ,as i passed by the moons i saw these geysers and flew down to investigate Thus i am open to believe that my wider explorations were similarly accurate .    

As i said urantia attributes religious meaning to these things while  i do not.  I see a form of benevolent civil government,  but them i was raised a secular humanist and this influences my perception of  what i encounter   A devout catholic who had the same experience would  probably see heaven,  god, angels  etc. 

it is our " primitive state of mind "which leads us to think of these beings as gods or magical.

i suspect they would laugh if they weren't so kind hearted  Due to complete self awareness the y have a wonderful sense of humour unfettered by prejudices, fears, or lack of understanding of self /non self.

   They certainly don't see themselves as gods, although the y are not beyond using our perception of them as gods to encourage our behaviours  But urantia is also right Their aim for us in the future is for us to become like them and one day, as we mentor other evolving species from a distance, we might also be thought  of as gods, by those species  

Hmmm that is interesting that 2 people could read the same book and not have a common knowledge. You yourself have asserted that your knowledge from reading books is all you need. 

Well I am still interested in the answer to my earlier questions that you said were fair to ask. There are over 600 planets seeded with the same human populace any they were created to have color inferiors. Is that god/ consciousness biased and not want all of it's creation equall in love and ability?.

We can move onto the others after we explore this.

jmccr8

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jmccr8
On 09/12/2017 at 3:36 PM, Mr Walker said:

Those words all have intellectual and emotional attachment which make an answer difficult  

I KNOW  there is an entity which cares about me and connects with me and protects me, empowers me, educates me, and gives me directions, which I can follow or not.

Thus it is not a matter of belief  for me.  It is as real and physical as my wife or dogs.

This entity is the same one which humans think of and call god.  in many forms, religions, and personal encounters.

 It exists around us and within us and we exist within it due to its nature.  it can access us ad we can access it to become one with it.
However I don't see any relgion in it, except  what humans, including myself, choose to attribute to it.

it has never called itself god to me  And i had to think long ad hard about what it was  Eventually, the name i came up with in first contact as a child seemed most appropriate  Ie the cosmic or universal consciousness/

This is because, while some connections are on a physical level and it can manifest physically, the critical connection is one of conscious awareness 

Humans think of a powerful figure as father in masculine societies or as a mother in more equal ones   it certainly acts like a loving father in many ways teaching protecting empowering and allowing individual responsibility and thus growth

Where i would  suspect i diverge from  your beliefs is in the origin and power of this "being"

It is, in my understanding, an ancient evolved product of the universe. It is powerful, wise, and knowledgeable but it did not preexist our universe, nor did it create it.

It my now be immortal due to its own abilities and technologies, but it didn't begin that way  it was not always wise or gentle and kind.  This is why we are told that one day humans will have the same attributes and abilities even though we are products of evolution Certainly it has been watching over and intervening in human lives since we first evolved the self awareness required to recognise its presence    

More than its sons and daughters, we are actually one with it, and it is one with us, as are  all  sufficiently   self aware  things in the universe.  

Thete appears to be some other differences such as immortality, you have said your god isn't so is it an inferior to the god/aliens in the UB and does your alien recognize them as a part of the cosmic consciousness? If not why?

jmccr8

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