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What will the messiah bring us?


trevor borocz johnson

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When it comes to the future messiah there are a lot of people injecting their hopes into what he will be like. If we take the Bible (or other Abrahamic texts) then Jesus is not a loving, forgiving, pro-gay, hippy, dope smoking, liberal. He is going to slaughter 95% of the worlds population and rule over it with an iron fist.

He will be worse than Hitler in terms of destruction, genocide, and empire building. The only people left alive will be those who closely match religious views on morality. If you think the Messiah is inbound then you best get loving your neighbour pretty dam fast!!!

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2 hours ago, trevor borocz johnson said:

Doesn't the bible describe the lamb of revelations as the messiah and as he who conquers and as the white horse of the appocalypse? So can't we expect him to come out with something new that replaces the old to conquer with? do you have any notions about how he will conquer and form a one world religion and or one world government? 

Revelation explains exactly what happens when Jesus comes again.  Jesus died as a lamb but comes back as a lion.  The resurrection of the saved (the only rapture, after tribulation) and the living who are saved are caught up to meet them in the clouds.  The wicked are left to perish in the earth’s upheaval; natural disaster so severe it destroys everything and everyone, leaving the earth barren.  Birds will feast on the flesh.  The City of New Jerusalem comes down from heaven and a new heaven and new earth are created.  After the thousand year reign of Christ (during which the saints judge the wicked), the wicked are resurrected so judgement can be passed.  Satan gathers them up as an army against Jesus and the inhabitants of New Jerusalem, in a last ditch effort, leaving Him no choice but to destroy them all with fire.  This does away with sin and evil permanently.  We live for eternity with Jesus.

The religion you speak of is already in place.

Edited by FrethKindheart
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11 minutes ago, FrethKindheart said:

Revelation explains exactly what happens when Jesus comes again.  Jesus died as a lamb but comes back as a lion.  The resurrection of the saved (the only rapture, after tribulation) and the living who are saved are caught up to meet them in the clouds.  The wicked are left to perish in the earth’s upheaval; natural disaster so severe it destroys everything and everyone, leaving the earth barren.  Birds will feast on the flesh.  The City of New Jerusalem comes down from heaven and a new heaven and new earth are created.  After the thousand year reign of Christ (during which the saints judge the wicked), the wicked are resurrected so judgement can be passed.  Satan gathers them up as an army against Jesus and the inhabitants of New Jerusalem, in a last ditch effort, leaving Him no choice but to destroy them all with fire.  This does away with sin and evil permanently.  We live for eternity with Jesus.

The religion you speak of is already in place.

Look around. Earth is in upheaval. Natural disasters are more and more severe. People and places are being destroyed. There are tribulations every day, and yet no one has been raptured. 

So either everyone is wicked and unworthy of saving, or it's not actually true. 

Maybe it was never about our bodies being saved, and really it was about our spirits being liberated by a message of love. 

 

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1 hour ago, ChaosRose said:

Maybe it was never about our bodies being saved, and really it was about our spirits being liberated by a message of love. 

Or maybe an egotistical conquest...

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6 hours ago, trevor borocz johnson said:

-

 

Quote

Doesn't the bible describe the lamb of revelations as the messiah and as he who conquers and as the white horse of the appocalypse?

 

Yes it does. But Jesus was no such messiah. The Jewish concept of the messiah became fixated on this conquering military general who was supposed to subjugate all the people of the world, thereby installing Israel as the ruling nation of all other nations.

It's because of this error, that when the deliverer finally did appear among them, they were blind to his mission of establishing the spiritual rule of God in the hearts of all men, which John prepared them for, before Jesus of Nazareth appeared on the scene.

Also, because they rejected Jesus's spiritual teachings of love and mercy, it carried them over and they sought his death. They knew what he taught, that the enshrinement of a direct relationship between the individual and the Father in heaven would not allow for the continuing control of the people by the priests to their religion of fear and despair. They knew it would be the end of their very profitable enterprise of self-enrichment, and they thought all they had to do was to have him killed.

A terrible blunder.

 

 

Quote

do you have any notions about how he will conquer and form a one world religion and or one world government? 

 

His mission isn't over. On the day of Penticost he sent into the world the Spirit of Truth. This is his personal presence in our hearts, and its by cooperating with this Comforter that he will help us each individually conquer and overcome our tendency to lean towards the sophistry of self-denial and encourage us to our destiny of self-mastery instead.

One world government is up to the people of the world as a group to install. Jesus is more interested in the installment of friendship with God in our souls.

 

Here are some more things:

 

Spoiler
 
Many things which happen in the course of a human life are hard to understand, difficult to reconcile with the idea that this is a universe in which truth prevails and in which righteousness triumphs. It so often appears that slander, lies, dishonesty, and unrighteousness—sin—prevail. Does faith, after all, triumph over evil, sin, and iniquity? It does. And the life and death of Jesus are the eternal proof that the truth of goodness and the faith of the spirit-led creature will always be vindicated. They taunted Jesus on the cross, saying, "Let us see if God will come and deliver him." It looked dark on that day of the crucifixion, but it was gloriously bright on the resurrection morning; it was still brighter and more joyous on the day of Pentecost. The religions of pessimistic despair seek to obtain release from the burdens of life; they crave extinction in endless slumber and rest. These are the religions of primitive fear and dread. The religion of Jesus is a new gospel of faith to be proclaimed to struggling humanity. This new religion is founded on faith, hope, and love.

 

On the day of Pentecost the religion of Jesus broke all national restrictions and racial fetters. It is forever true, "Where the spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty." On this day the Spirit of Truth became the personal gift from the Master to every mortal. This spirit was bestowed for the purpose of qualifying believers more effectively to preach the gospel of the kingdom, but they mistook the experience of receiving the outpoured spirit for a part of the new gospel which they were unconsciously formulating.

 

The coming of the Spirit of Truth on Pentecost made possible a religion which is neither radical nor conservative; it is neither the old nor the new; it is to be dominated neither by the old nor the young. The fact of Jesus' earthly life provides a fixed point for the anchor of time, while the bestowal of the Spirit of Truth provides for the everlasting expansion and endless growth of the religion which he lived and the gospel which he proclaimed. The spirit guides into all truth; he is the teacher of an expanding and always-growing religion of endless progress and divine unfolding. This new teacher will be forever unfolding to the truth-seeking believer that which was so divinely folded up in the person and nature of the Son of Man.

 

The bestowal of the Spirit of Truth was independent of all forms, ceremonies, sacred places, and special behavior by those who received the fullness of its manifestation. When the spirit came upon those assembled in the upper chamber, they were simply sitting there, having just been engaged in silent prayer. The spirit was bestowed in the country as well as in the city. It was not necessary for the apostles to go apart to a lonely place for years of solitary meditation in order to receive the spirit. For all time, Pentecost disassociates the idea of spiritual experience from the notion of especially favorable environments.

 

Pentecost was designed to lessen the self-assertiveness of individuals, groups, nations, and races. It is this spirit of self-assertiveness which so increases in tension that it periodically breaks loose in destructive wars. Mankind can be unified only by the spiritual approach, and the Spirit of Truth is a world influence which is universal.

 

The coming of the Spirit of Truth purifies the human heart and leads the recipient to formulate a life purpose single to the will of God and the welfare of men. The material spirit of selfishness has been swallowed up in this new spiritual bestowal of selflessness. Pentecost, then and now, signifies that the Jesus of history has become the divine Son of living experience. The joy of this outpoured spirit, when it is consciously experienced in human life, is a tonic for health, a stimulus for mind, and an unfailing energy for the soul.

 

Then comes the resurrection, with its deliverance from despair and the return of their faith in the Master's divinity. Again and again they see him and talk with him, and he takes them out on Olivet, where he bids them farewell and tells them he is going back to the Father. He has told them to tarry in Jerusalem until they are endowed with power—until the Spirit of Truth shall come. And on the day of Pentecost this new teacher comes, and they go out at once to preach their gospel with new power. They are the bold and courageous followers of a living Lord, not a dead and defeated leader. The Master lives in the hearts of these evangelists; God is not a doctrine in their minds; he has become a living presence in their souls.
 
 
Spoiler

 

All quotes from the Urantia Book. 

 

 

 
 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Will Due
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23 hours ago, ChaosRose said:

Look around. Earth is in upheaval. Natural disasters are more and more severe. People and places are being destroyed. There are tribulations every day, and yet no one has been raptured. 

So either everyone is wicked and unworthy of saving, or it's not actually true. 

Maybe it was never about our bodies being saved, and really it was about our spirits being liberated by a message of love. 

 

The rapture doesn’t happen until the second coming.  All of us are to go through tribulation.  I agree, it is already here, but it is supposed to get so bad that it has to be cut short or all of humanity will perish. What we are seeing is birth pains for the much bigger upheaval to come.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I hope the messiah brings scientific proof of the existence of angels and earth bound spirits. Finally disproving the old idiom of a person living one lifetime and then over for eternity. Infinity seems like a long time to die into and too long to have been born into, does it even make sense that your conscious is a one time off in eternity?

Edited by trevor borocz johnson
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On 11/24/2017 at 11:19 PM, trevor borocz johnson said:

Will he usher in a new age of understanding? If you could tell the messiah what you want him to do, what would you say?

Leave me alone. I have no need for your guilt ridden, death cult,  philosophy. 

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  • 1 month later...

 I hope he brings philosophy based on all of our science's , for example how having children will be regulated now that we have medicine and have to avoid overpopulating, and other philosophy's that will set up a government that will last millions of years.  robotics and computers at there peak. But a full understanding that will end this phase of evolution where we have invented and discovered so much in the past 200 and especially 50 years. Like the Constitution says if something comes along that can replace an old thing, people should have the right to it. I for one would like to see more meat replaced. I use to eat burgers in high school that I thought were great that I learned were soy. 

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On 12/5/2017 at 1:55 PM, trevor borocz johnson said:

I hope the messiah brings scientific proof of the existence of angels and earth bound spirits.

Why wait? Can't he do it now so you don't have to waste your time proselytizing your death cult?

On 11/27/2017 at 1:18 PM, FrethKindheart said:

The rapture doesn’t happen until the second coming.  All of us are to go through tribulation.  I agree, it is already here, but it is supposed to get so bad that it has to be cut short or all of humanity will perish. What we are seeing is birth pains for the much bigger upheaval to come.

Religious obsession with the end of the world is what will cause the world to end, not your imaginary friend.

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Long live the lamb! May all who challenge him be defeated!

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On ‎29‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 0:54 PM, trevor borocz johnson said:

 I hope he brings philosophy based on all of our science's , for example how having children will be regulated now that we have medicine and have to avoid overpopulating, and other philosophy's that will set up a government that will last millions of years.  robotics and computers at there peak. But a full understanding that will end this phase of evolution where we have invented and discovered so much in the past 200 and especially 50 years. Like the Constitution says if something comes along that can replace an old thing, people should have the right to it. I for one would like to see more meat replaced. I use to eat burgers in high school that I thought were great that I learned were soy. 

The Jesus in the Bible propagated myths and superstition. Yeah, he's totally pro-science.

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On 1/30/2018 at 10:29 AM, Rlyeh said:

The Jesus in the Bible propagated myths and superstition. Yeah, he's totally pro-science.

like what? standing on the water dry? Or sending the pigs off the cliff with the evil spirit? or maybe his water to wine? So in your mind does this give you the right to act immorally or something saying the whole bible is false based on the things that are guesses about science? I would agree that its a scientific book of morality and prophecy but not of the big bang theory or atomic structure  etc etc. I think your attempt to write off morality is a laymans understanding of the religion and supports your will to be sarcastic. I don't know you but that's just my guess from what you've said to me before.

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26 minutes ago, trevor borocz johnson said:

like what? standing on the water dry? Or sending the pigs off the cliff with the evil spirit? or maybe his water to swine?

fixed that for ya

jmccr8

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44 minutes ago, trevor borocz johnson said:

like what? standing on the water dry? Or sending the pigs off the cliff with the evil spirit? or maybe his water to wine? So in your mind does this give you the right to act immorally or something saying the whole bible is false based on the things that are guesses about science? I would agree that its a scientific book of morality and prophecy but not of the big bang theory or atomic structure  etc etc. I think your attempt to write off morality is a laymans understanding of the religion and supports your will to be sarcastic. I don't know you but that's just my guess from what you've said to me before.

The creation myth, the flood myth.. You haven't read the Bible have you?

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8 hours ago, trevor borocz johnson said:

like what? standing on the water dry? Or sending the pigs off the cliff with the evil spirit? or maybe his water to wine? So in your mind does this give you the right to act immorally or something saying the whole bible is false based on the things that are guesses about science? I would agree that its a scientific book of morality and prophecy but not of the big bang theory or atomic structure  etc etc. I think your attempt to write off morality is a laymans understanding of the religion and supports your will to be sarcastic. I don't know you but that's just my guess from what you've said to me before.

Here is a thought for you:

- Maybe the bible doesn't contain any science because it wasn't written by an allknowing deity, but rather by bronzeage Middle Eastern sheppards ?

 

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2 hours ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

Here is a thought for you:

- Maybe the bible doesn't contain any science because it wasn't written by an allknowing deity, but rather by bronzeage Middle Eastern sheppards ?

 

Are you concurring with your friends here that the bible is a useless book? You must be from another hole into hell if you blatantly disagree with parts of it just because you generally disagree with the whole thing. Do you concur with killing each other and incest because the bible forbids it?

 

9 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

The creation myth, the flood myth.. You haven't read the Bible have you?

Yeah! I bet you've read the full thing. Could you sight the chapters and there numbers to your biblical references please.

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3 hours ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

Here is a thought for you:

- Maybe the bible doesn't contain any science because it wasn't written by an allknowing deity, but rather by bronzeage Middle Eastern sheppards ?

 

The wisdom of those ''bronzeage Middle Eastern sheppards'' seems far more superior than the shallow, empty materialism we are been fed by the dominant establishment nowadays.

Edited by TruthSeeker_
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2 hours ago, trevor borocz johnson said:

Yeah! I bet you've read the full thing. Could you sight the chapters and there numbers to your biblical references please.

And you still don't believe he propagated myths?

Mark 10:6

Matthew 19:4

Matthew 24:37-39

 

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Mark 10:6 King James Version (KJV)

6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.

Matthew 19:4-6 New International Version (NIV)

4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’[a] 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

Matthew 24:37-39 New International Version (NIV)

37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

Matthew 19:4 are descriptions of marriage morality and Mark 10:6 something basically true to the visible eye that there were males and females and so it began that way. It may be true that life evolved from one cell organisms and that they don't have sex. I think it also maybe true that parts of the bible were written by a science coming from voices that we don't understand that is very advanced, and at the same time exists in man's hands who don't take away from the extremely important parts but are like weak ad ons.

as for Matthew 24:37 its a prophecy warning. We are in and following the six thousand year beginning of the bible A lot of people believe that where it says god said let there be light, that it means from the 6,000 year age it was written. But the statement could be infinite. 

 

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37 minutes ago, trevor borocz johnson said:

Mark 10:6 King James Version (KJV)

6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.

Matthew 19:4-6 New International Version (NIV)

4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’[a] 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

Matthew 24:37-39 New International Version (NIV)

37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

Matthew 19:4 are descriptions of marriage morality and Mark 10:6 something basically true to the visible eye that there were males and females and so it began that way. It may be true that life evolved from one cell organisms and that they don't have sex. I think it also maybe true that parts of the bible were written by a science coming from voices that we don't understand that is very advanced, and at the same time exists in man's hands who don't take away from the extremely important parts but are like weak ad ons.

as for Matthew 24:37 its a prophecy warning. We are in and following the six thousand year beginning of the bible A lot of people believe that where it says god said let there be light, that it means from the 6,000 year age it was written. But the statement could be infinite. 

 

So you agree that Jesus did propagate myths? All you've done is explained why he said them.

Edited by Rlyeh
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5 hours ago, TruthSeeker_ said:

The wisdom of those ''bronzeage Middle Eastern sheppards'' seems far more superior than the shallow, empty materialism we are been fed by the dominant establishment nowadays.

Are you seriously saying that it was better to live at a time when people were stoning eachother and slavery was an accepted part of society ?

I think it is a bit weird when people are so critical of present day society, when in fact it is probably the best time to be a human being ever. Today we have much  more freedom, much better health and unprecedented wealth, yet it is somehow a bad time to live in compared to the bronze age ? 

I don't think you would actually like to live back in the time of this supposedly superior wisdom.

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6 hours ago, trevor borocz johnson said:

Are you concurring with your friends here that the bible is a useless book?

I guess it is usefull for some people, but as a science book, which was what I was commenting on, yes it is useless.

6 hours ago, trevor borocz johnson said:

You must be from another hole into hell if you blatantly disagree with parts of it just because you generally disagree with the whole thing

Aren't christians supposed to "love thy neighbour" and "turn the other cheek" ? You probably should work on that.

6 hours ago, trevor borocz johnson said:

Do you concur with killing each other and incest because the bible forbids it?

What do you mean ?I don't concur with killings or incest, but your bible does. There are a lot of killings and incest in the bible.

Where I come from we have something called laws that forbid these things, no need for a bronzeage book. Societies where christianity had no influence often have the same laws, so maybe they are a result of human nature, rather than inspired by the bible ?

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13 hours ago, trevor borocz johnson said:

Are you concurring with your friends here that the bible is a useless book? You must be from another hole into hell if you blatantly disagree with parts of it just because you generally disagree with the whole thing. Do you concur with killing each other and incest because the bible forbids it?

 

Yeah! I bet you've read the full thing. Could you sight the chapters and there numbers to your biblical references please.

Lol, quite the leap in logic(?) on your part with this comment. Trevor, who are you, Judge Judy?

jmccr8

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6 hours ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

What do you mean ?I don't concur with killings or incest, but your bible does. There are a lot of killings and incest in the bible.

I was referring to Leviticus and Exodus which condone such behaviours. Can you please reference where it says its alright?

6 hours ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

I guess it is usefull for some people, but as a science book, which was what I was commenting on, yes it is useless.

So you dismiss it entirely based on the fact that it can't fix your blender? I think parts of the bible were written in a way that science today still has no explanation for and the secret of undrstanding that science may be written in the bible.

The logic behind some of what is written in the bible is as intelligent as the math's that came from ancient times. You shouldn't just write it off because it doesn't answer your questions like a search engine.

6 hours ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

Where I come from we have something called laws that forbid these things, no need for a bronzeage book. Societies where christianity had no influence often have the same laws, so maybe they are a result of human nature, rather than inspired by the bible ?

 Well maybe and maybe the laws we have today originated from the bible. I believe some day in the future computers will be used to analyze people's dreams and that crime will be monitored from dreams. But for the most part proving a crime and giving appropriate justice was very difficult for all people and tongues up until the 1800's and especially since 1950. Not creating abomination in others is also a force behind morality. The logical science may be born from a subconscious voice that guides you morally. One that doesn't have personal thoughts like a human but only criticizes yours.Other ancient societies it would seem killed a lot IDK just from what I've heard.

9 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

So you agree that Jesus did propagate myths? All you've done is explained why he said them.

They weren't really myths they were mystifying effects that were used by the early church to promote its early beginnings. I know a King Heron had inventions in temples he made to mystify the visitors that used water weights, currents, and levers. He had a vending machine that used weights, a gate that opened and closed that is similar to a computer, and wrote math for optics as well.

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