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Setton

Trump to recognise Jerusalem

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6 hours ago, RAyMO said:

Interesting concept Bee. In order to do business with foreign entities the UK must acquiesce to them?

[snip]

Furthermore had they been contemplating changing their line - Trumps threats would have curtailed such thoughts - otherwise the UK would have been castigated has having no backbone.

 

3 hours ago, Setton said:

This is one of the few times our government seems to have found a backbone. 

 

As Australia and Canada abstained does that mean that they have 'acquiesced' and have no 'backbone'...?

or have they simply gone down the diplomacy route - going for neutrality rather than solidarity - 

I would have liked the UK to have at least abstained ...

 

 

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hey @Sir Smoke aLot... were you happy with your country abstaining... :) 

 

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6 minutes ago, bee said:

 

 

As Australia and Canada abstained does that mean that they have 'acquiesced' and have no 'backbone'...?

or have they simply gone down the diplomacy route - going for neutrality rather than solidarity - 

I would have liked the UK to have at least abstained ...

 

 

They've clearly decided on the tactic of trying not to antagonize the big and slightly unpredictable orange man in the White House and his utterly barkingly rabid "ambassador" (!), Nikki (with two k's and an i).. Abstension is usually a diplomatic way of expressing that you don't agree. 

Edited by Manfred von Dreidecker
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1 minute ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

They've clearly deic ded on the tactic of trying not to anatgaonsie the big and slightly unpredictable orange man in the White House. Abstension is usually a diplomatic way of expressing that you don't agree. 


like I said --- they chose the diplomatic route - 

 

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1 minute ago, bee said:


like I said --- they chose the diplomatic route - 

 

so perhaps Prime Minister May has more backbone than taking the easy option of not wanting to offend the big orange man and his utterly rabid attack dog, Nikki (with two k's and an i). 

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5 minutes ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

Abstension is usually a diplomatic way of expressing that you don't agree. 

But of which side?

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6 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

But of which side?

 

that's the usefulness of it isn't it, ambiguity. But if one supports something, one will usually stand up and say so. 

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Just now, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

so perhaps Prime Minister May has more backbone than taking the easy option of not wanting to offend the big orange man and his utterly rabid attack dog, Nikki (with two k's and an i). 


as I said earlier I think uk politicians are afraid of offending muslims living in Britain - and this was factored into the voting decision -

Teresa May was probably more focused on the potential domestic fall out if '''we''' didn't vote in favour of the motion and against the US -

Damned if she did - damned if she didn't - 

 

 

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. “On Hanukkah, you spoke like a Maccabi,” he said. “You lit a candle of truth. You dispel the darkness. One defeated the many. Truth defeated lies. Thank you, President Trump. Thank you, Nikki Haley." ... ~ Bibi Netanyahu.  

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2 minutes ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

that's the usefulness of it isn't it, ambiguity. But if one supports something, one will usually stand up and say so. 

The power of the mob is a force that is hard to resist, even though you know it is wrong.  That’s the status quo of groupthink.

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On December 6, 2017 at 6:18 PM, lightly said:

 

I still can't figure out what TheDonald's declaration accomplishes....other than Angering many Muslims.

Jerusalem ,and more specifically "the Mount"...is the most revered location of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.

i could sort of understand a show of support....IF... Israel had decided to officially move the capital to Jerusalem...

but , for Anyone else to declare it, simply has no validity.

         I think there are clearer minds and larger powers, than possessed by his Trumpness, behind this 'move'...

and the only intention is to foment stir up even more trouble in the region to take advantage of.  That has been the pattern,to the observant?

Watch what happens ...which domino will fall next?

 

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On 12/20/2017 at 4:55 PM, Setton said:

And now Trump is threatening to cut off any aid for countries that don't back him when the UN votes on the matter. 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-middle-east-42431095

Just when I thought my opinion of him could sink no lower. Is he so completely incompetent when it comes to diplomacy that he has to resort to threatening the rest of the world and nothing short of bullying tactics. 

I did my best to give him the benefit of the doubt as simply someone ignorant of politics and lacking in tact. 

But no, he's worse than stupid. He's finally showing the world that he's nothing more than an slimy, bullying, insecure little man. Pathetic. 

Is this really what you want in a leader, America? Every superpower goes this way. Turn it around or I guarantee you're on the decline from here. 

Yeah totally. I was even on board with the recognition of Jerusalem due to various reasons noted, but the hypocrisy and motives unrelated. Says it's an insult to it's sovereignty.. yet other nations can't practice their own sovereignty on the issue. The Orangutan is an embarrassment. All his actions have nothing to do with standards or right/wrong/wise/just etc, buy purely if his ego is stroked and if can "fire" or "stick it" to someone else to make him feel more powerful. Mentally unhinged from reality, inherited wealth, runs businesses into the ground, put in office by Putin, won't release his taxes, tiny hands. 

 

Edited by Area201
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2 hours ago, bee said:

 

 

As Australia and Canada abstained does that mean that they have 'acquiesced' and have no 'backbone'...?

or have they simply gone down the diplomacy route - going for neutrality rather than solidarity - 

I would have liked the UK to have at least abstained ...

Why? Is brexit such a disaster for the UK that we can't survive the disapproval of the orange bully? 

And yes, if they abstained because of his threats (and not because it's their own policy) then yes, it shows less backbone than those who stood up for their position and opposed Trump. 

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2 hours ago, lightly said:

I still can't figure out what TheDonald's declaration accomplishes....other than Angering many Muslims.

Jerusalem ,and more specifically "the Mount"...is the most revered location of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.

i could sort of understand a show of support....IF... Israel had decided to officially move the capital to Jerusalem...

but , for Anyone else to declare it, simply has no validity.

         I think there are clearer minds and larger powers, than possessed by his Trumpness, behind this 'move'...

and the only intention is to foment stir up even more trouble in the region to take advantage of.  That has been the pattern,to the observant?

Watch what happens ...which domino will fall next?

 

According to Israel, Jerusalem has always been it's capitol. Their Parliament,  Supreme Court, their entire government is there. What's ridiculous is the flap the world is making over a simple, logical move.  Our embassy should be where their seat of government is at...it's silly to have it any where else. I'm not sure why it's such a threat to world peace for us to be in a place that makes it easier for us to do business there.

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3 hours ago, lightly said:

I still can't figure out what TheDonald's declaration accomplishes....other than Angering many Muslims.

Sometimes, you have to light a fire under people to get them to do the right thing.  You can’t mollycoddle people.

 

Jerusalem ,and more specifically "the Mount"...is the most revered location of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.

It’s only the third most revered site for Muslims and there is some question if it is for Jews.  New evidence suggests that the Temple was in the City of David which was located just south of the Mount.

 

i could sort of understand a show of support....IF... Israel had decided to officially move the capital to Jerusalem...

They don’t have to officially move, it officially *IS*!

 

but , for Anyone else to declare it, simply has no validity.

Trump isn’t declaring what the capital of Israel is.  He’s saying that we are moving our embassy to the capital.

 

         I think there are clearer minds and larger powers, than possessed by his Trumpness, behind this 'move'...

Trump is an outsider, there is no other power behind him.  Unlike Obama and Clinton.

 

and the only intention is to foment stir up even more trouble in the region to take advantage of.  That has been the pattern,to the observant?

You’re not very observant then.  As mentioned before, you have to stir things up at times to get people out of their comfort zone before a solution can be found.

 

Watch what happens ...which domino will fall next?

And what are the dominoes?

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4 hours ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

that's the usefulness of it isn't it, ambiguity. But if one supports something, one will usually stand up and say so. 

Or maybe they just decided it’s an issue they don’t care about. In fact, unless you are a radical Islamic country who wants to see every Jew in Israel dead, I can’t for the life of me understand why any of them would care. What difference does it make to them where our embassy is? It isn’t even going in the disputed part of the city. 

It doesn’t make any sense. Till you realize Israel is by far the most condemned nation on the planet. The one single shining light of freedom in the entire Middle East has far more condemnation then countries with brutal dictators, who stone women for being gang raped, and who throw gay people off buildings for fun. 

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1 hour ago, RavenHawk said:

Sometimes, you have to light a fire under people to get them to do the right thing.

Well he's certainly done that although not in the way you were meaning I think.

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I also love how Trump reminding countries of how overwhelmingly generous this country has been to them, often goin above and beyond what was originally agreed to is considered a threat lol

‘Keep towing our weight for us regardless of whether or not we spit in your face over a matter that doesn’t really even concern us in the least, or I will call you a bully’

God I love this president. I never thought I’d be able to say that for anyone on either side of the coin.

 

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3 hours ago, Setton said:

Why? Is brexit such a disaster for the UK that we can't survive the disapproval of the orange bully? 

And yes, if they abstained because of his threats (and not because it's their own policy) then yes, it shows less backbone than those who stood up for their position and opposed Trump. 

You call President Trump...The Orange bully.  Actually, Trump is the big kid in the playground that actually takes on the real bullies.  That's why all the kids in the playground love him!  Well..not all the kids...some of them are bullies and some of them just don't like him because he's tough and won't back down in a fight. He is a winner!

Yah Trump!  Finally someone with a real plan...someone who really cares...someone who knows how to get things done...and someone who doesn't play politics...won't back down and is completely on board with winning.  MAGA!

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On 12/22/2017 at 6:41 PM, bee said:

 

hey @Sir Smoke aLot... were you happy with your country abstaining... :) 

 

To be fair that was the only option for my country. I was expecting quite worse ;)

I really liked your remark, damn it was strong too! I am being objective ( or trying as much as i can ) on every matter and that is partly the reason why i see the beauty of your comment lol

I have such opinion about 'our' vote not only because of the role which USA has played in the 1990's but also because Bosnia is not sovereign in every aspect. Large factor in Bosnian politics is also lack of consensus - even over most absurd and easy to solve questions.

If you like further explanation you can continue to read, i recommend that :) or skip it. 

As mentioned above, i do not see my country as sovereign. Far from sovereignty. Our foreign policy is usually dictated by others. To backup such claim i have to mention that every reform in this country is dictated by IMF and our government is dependent on loans. Is it dependent on loans forcibly or willingly i can not say for sure but i bet on the latter.

Not to mention lack of consensus within Bosnia and Herzegovina. Nationalistic party's own people's minds and have everlasting unquestionable support.

It's ridiculous reality in which we live here. I could partly explain the absurdity of Bosnia in few more sentences but to be honest towards you or anyone else with different perspective than at least some shorter book would be required to do it.

It's hard to admit such shame but truth has to be accepted the way it is. USA helped my people, we can argue if it was a bit late or not but it was complicated decade generally.

So it's understandable that we would support USA in many matters, naturally, but abstain is large possibility on every voting because we have no consensus here, not even for absurd things as i said. 

This issue about Jerusalem was more general one but regardless... Being small and weak, globally without influence than you all can expect that Bosnia and Herzegovina will mostly choose to abstain on majority of matters or go with the IMF and whatever consensus within Western world dictates to us... 

I hope that situation around Trump's move will became calmer soon and that USA will eventually recognize Palestinian right for East Jerusalem, which also Israel was accepting on some occasions ( with exception of Western Wall or 'Wall of Cries' ).

 

 

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Anyone got any stats from when this issue was signed into law in '95 by a democrat president and if i remember correctly was overwhelmingly approved when passed?

Anyone here remember how the UN felt about things then?...i honestly don't remember all about it,i was only 10 or 11 at the time lol

 

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@Sir Smoke aLot....... many thanks for your thoughtful and informative reply - :)

Lol --- I enjoyed your remarks about my remark - :D  and I have to tell you that although our paths don't cross much
on the forum .....

through your posts I see the beauty of your mind  (your being) also the depth and honesty of the way you express your thoughts...

there --- that compliment was a little Christmas present from me...  ;)

:santa:

 

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10 hours ago, bee said:

 

@Sir Smoke aLot....... many thanks for your thoughtful and informative reply - :)

Lol --- I enjoyed your remarks about my remark - :D  and I have to tell you that although our paths don't cross much
on the forum .....

through your posts I see the beauty of your mind  (your being) also the depth and honesty of the way you express your thoughts...

there --- that compliment was a little Christmas present from me...  ;)

:santa:

 

I'm glad you liked it :) thank you very much for such kind words and Merry Christmas to you too :) 

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