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Setton

Trump to recognise Jerusalem

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Setton
On 11/12/2017 at 1:05 AM, AnchorSteam said:

The Capitol of Israel is Jerusalem.

They made a Law that says so, just to prove the point.

So, how hostile to the Israelis would you have to be, to put your Embassy 50 miles away? In what other nation in Earth is that even an option?

So if Iran passed a law saying Washington was their capital, you'd be fine with that and let them use it for government buildings. 

How hostile would you have to be to not let them put their capital on land they don't own?! 

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Sir Wearer of Hats
12 minutes ago, Setton said:

So if Iran passed a law saying Washington was their capital, you'd be fine with that and let them use it for government buildings. 

How hostile would you have to be to not let them put their capital on land they don't own?! 

All the Arab Lesgue Nations acknowledge that the centre of government of Israel is Jerusalem, it’s just an excuse to be petty and violent. 

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bmk1245
21 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

All the Arab Lesgue Nations acknowledge that the centre of government of Israel is Jerusalem, it’s just an excuse to be petty and violent. 

Not to mention that Russia recognizes Jerusalem (west) as capital of Israel. I don't see Palestinians burning Russian flags...

Edited by bmk1245
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RAyMO
1 hour ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

All the Arab Lesgue Nations acknowledge that the centre of government of Israel is Jerusalem, it’s just an excuse to be petty and violent. 

I can see what you are saying Sir.

I would just add that in a conflict situation, words and symbolism take on a meaning much greater than their inherent value. 

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Montmorency the Dog
1 hour ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

All the Arab Lesgue Nations acknowledge that the centre of government of Israel is Jerusalem, it’s just an excuse to be petty and violent. 

and how silly and petty they are aren't they. Imagine making such a fuss because someone else has come and occupied your land, forced you out of your homes, and forced you into ghettoes! 

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RavenHawk
5 hours ago, Setton said:

So if Iran passed a law saying Washington was their capital, you'd be fine with that and let them use it for government buildings. 

How hostile would you have to be to not let them put their capital on land they don't own?! 

That would be a poor example.  For one, their new capital would be greatly separated from their territory which would mean ineffective governance.  Then they can deal with the beltway and liberals; let them drain the swamp.  And finally, it will be easier to capture their leadership.  But then after going through the second thing above, they'd be ready to give up anyway.

A better example would be if ancient Persia had been conquered (oh wait, it was) and after a thousand years, a Zoroastrian revival occurred and they want to make Ctesiphon their new capital as it once was.

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Setton
5 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

That would be a poor example.  For one, their new capital would be greatly separated from their territory which would mean ineffective governance.  Then they can deal with the beltway and liberals; let them drain the swamp.  And finally, it will be easier to capture their leadership.  But then after going through the second thing above, they'd be ready to give up anyway.

A better example would be if ancient Persia had been conquered (oh wait, it was) and after a thousand years, a Zoroastrian revival occurred and they want to make Ctesiphon their new capital as it once was.

Irrelevant. According to anchorsteam's logic, it only matters if the individual country declares it their capital. Apparently, practicality and international legality don't matter. 

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RavenHawk
6 minutes ago, Setton said:

Irrelevant. According to anchorsteam's logic, it only matters if the individual country declares it their capital. Apparently, practicality and international legality don't matter. 

They are declaring Ctesiphon as the new capital in their bid for the right of return.  International legality (Globalization) doesn't usually matter anyway in local individual issues.

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RoofGardener
48 minutes ago, Setton said:

Irrelevant. According to anchorsteam's logic, it only matters if the individual country declares it their capital. Apparently, practicality and international legality don't matter. 

Well then, lets cast the PLO's claim on East Jerusalem as THEIR capital in the same light ? :P

 

Edited by RoofGardener
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Setton
1 hour ago, RoofGardener said:

Well then, lets cast the PLO's claim on East Jerusalem as THEIR capital in the same light ? :P

Yes, let's. Palestinians want Jerusalem. So do Israelis. They need to reach a compromise. The international community should be unbiased and assist in reaching this compromise. Having the president of the US declare for one side over the other is counter productive. 

I'm glad we agree. 

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RoofGardener
Just now, Setton said:

Yes, let's. Palestinians want Jerusalem. So do Israelis. They need to reach a compromise. The international community should be unbiased and assist in reaching this compromise. Having the president of the US declare for one side over the other is counter productive. 

I'm glad we agree. 

Meh.. I can sympathise with him. When the Jordanians controlled East Jerusalem, they vandalised Jewish holy sites, and certainly prevented Jews from worshipping there. (by the simple expedient of shooting them).

Under Israeli control, everyone has access to it. (bizarrely, with the exception of Jews wanting to worship). In short, they are worthy custodians, and the Jordanians where not.

So rather than sit on the fence, lets come down in favour of a safe pair of hands !

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third_eye

Always look on the bright side of life ...

Quote

 

~

12 Dec 2017 | 10:26 PM

'We are one' - Palestinian Christians and Muslims unite against Trump's Jerusalem call

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Less than an hour after U.S. President Donald Trump recognised Jerusalem as Israel's capital, Palestinians protested by turning off the lights on the Christmas tree outside Bethlehem's Church of the Nativity, the traditional birthplace of...

~

 

 

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Farmer77
10 minutes ago, third_eye said:

Always look on the bright side of life ...

A classic ! 

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Setton
23 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Meh.. I can sympathise with him. When the Jordanians controlled East Jerusalem, they vandalised Jewish holy sites, and certainly prevented Jews from worshipping there. (by the simple expedient of shooting them).

Under Israeli control, everyone has access to it. (bizarrely, with the exception of Jews wanting to worship). In short, they are worthy custodians, and the Jordanians where not.

So rather than sit on the fence, lets come down in favour of a safe pair of hands !

Regardless of how they came to control it? 

So if I go and nick the rosetta stone from the British museum, you'd be happy for me to keep it as long as I look after it properly? 

The original agreement was for Jerusalem to be independent of any state. Why not push for that instead of supporting a country that annexed it and keeps it illegally? 

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third_eye
8 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

A classic ! 

Not quite what I originally had in mind but this one has the bass hook line and lick that knocked it out of any ball park ... :tu:

~

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AnchorSteam
5 hours ago, Setton said:

Irrelevant. According to anchorsteam's logic, it only matters if the individual country declares it their capital. Apparently, practicality and international legality don't matter. 

Oh, my logic, is it?

They built their center of Government there. By your logic, we should have our China Embassy in Nanking, instead of Beijing.

How practical would that be?

What Law, specifically, is being broken by Jerusalem being the capitol of Israel?

 

You know, this is all such a load of crap, and even getting involved is also a headache. Here is some logic for you; There never has been peace in that part of the world since the Roman Empire went bust. I think it is obvious that there never will be, not unless somebody drops about 50-60 nukes right into Jerusalem, one right after the other. Just turn the whole damn thing into a glowing pit that extends all the way down to raw magma. 

Would that make all the nit-pickers happy, at last, or just shut them up for a little while?

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RoofGardener
1 hour ago, AnchorSteam said:

Oh, my logic, is it?

They built their center of Government there. By your logic, we should have our China Embassy in Nanking, instead of Beijing.

How practical would that be?

What Law, specifically, is being broken by Jerusalem being the capitol of Israel?

 

You know, this is all such a load of crap, and even getting involved is also a headache. Here is some logic for you; There never has been peace in that part of the world since the Roman Empire went bust. I think it is obvious that there never will be, not unless somebody drops about 50-60 nukes right into Jerusalem, one right after the other. Just turn the whole damn thing into a glowing pit that extends all the way down to raw magma. 

Would that make all the nit-pickers happy, at last, or just shut them up for a little while?

Well.. yes.. we COULD do that. 

But why not just acknowlege which "nation" would be the better custodian ? 

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RavenHawk
5 hours ago, Setton said:

Yes, let's. Palestinians want Jerusalem. So do Israelis. They need to reach a compromise. The international community should be unbiased and assist in reaching this compromise. Having the president of the US declare for one side over the other is counter productive. 

I'm glad we agree. 

When has the Palestinians ever been interested in compromise?

The international community has been holding the status quo for 70 years.  How productive has that been?

Making Jerusalem an open city is the worse thing possible because whoever is determined to be its custodian will not be as responsible as someone that has more than a passing interest in maintaining it.  Israel has proved that it is capable of keeping it an open city.
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Setton
30 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

When has the Palestinians ever been interested in compromise?

 

The international community has been holding the status quo for 70 years.  How productive has that been?

 

 

Making Jerusalem an open city is the worse thing possible because whoever is determined to be its custodian will not be as responsible as someone that has more than a passing interest in maintaining it.  Israel has proved that it is capable of keeping it an open city.

Well they only claim East Jerusalem, Israel want all of it. That looks like more of a start towards compromise from the Palestinian side.

Not very productive. Perhaps it is time to change the status quo by getting Israel to surrender the land it annexed and keeps illegally? 

As for the last paragraph, that's just speculation on your part. Granted it's a different scale but look at how museums and curators care for things that have no personal significance to them. On the other hand hand, I've met people in possession of important objects with personal significance who are so blinded by that importance that they can't look after them properly. Seems a fair analogy to this situation. 

Why not have UNESCO manage Jerusalem? It's independent of all countries, has the technical and cultural knowledge to maintain the historic and religious sites and a vested interest in preserving and maintaining the city. 

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Black Red Devil
6 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Well.. yes.. we COULD do that. 

But why not just acknowlege which "nation" would be the better custodian ? 

Why does there have to be a one nation custodian?  Crusades have been fought over it, many have died throughout the millenniums and it's probably the only place on earth where the three Abrahamic religions have an equal righteous claim over.  It should be declared a free territory which nobody possesses IMO (yes, including East Jerusalem).  Trump by opting for one side over the other has just openly proven to be a dangerous social media troll, unworthy of the position he holds in the world.

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third_eye

I call Titus to the witness box ...
 

Quote

 

~

Siege of Jerusalem (AD 70) - Wikipedia

Jump to Destruction of Jerusalem - For the destruction under Nebuchadnezzar, see Siege of Jerusalem (587 BC). The Siege and Destruction of Jerusalem, by David Roberts (1850). Stones from the Western Wall of the Temple Mount (Jerusalem) thrown onto the street by Roman soldiers on the Ninth of Av, 70.
Date‎: ‎February – August 3, 70 CE
Result‎: ‎Roman victory: Main rebel Judean forc...
Territorial changes‎: ‎Roman rule of Jerusalem r...
~

A.D. 70 Titus Destroys Jerusalem | Christian History

www.christianitytoday.com/history/issues/issue.../ad-70-titus-destroys-jerusalem.html
The Jewish Revolt marked the end of the Jewish state until modern times. The destruction of the temple also signified a change in the Jews' worship (although that change had begun as Jews had been scattering throughout the world for at least six hundred years). The first destruction of the temple, by the Babylonians in ...
~

The Romans Destroy the Temple at Jerusalem, 70 AD

www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/jewishtemple.htm

The Roman legions surrounded the city and began to slowly squeeze the life out of the Jewish stronghold. By the year 70, the attackers had breached Jerusalem's outer walls and began a systematic ransacking of the city. The assault culminated in the burning and destruction of the Temple that served as the center of ...

~

The Temple Destroyed, 70 A.D. - Bible Research

www.bibleresearch.org/articles/a11pws.htm

THE TEMPLE DESTROYED, 70 A.D.. The fulfillment of Christ's prophecy concerning the destruction of the magnificent temple at Jerusalem not only reveals the year of Christ's crucifixion, but also ended one phase of God's plan for the salvation of humanity and ushered in the next phase—Christ's return to conquer and rule ...

~

 

 

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ExpandMyMind

Muslim nations urge recognition of East Jerusalem as Palestinian capital

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42335751

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AnchorSteam
15 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

Why does there have to be a one nation custodian?  Crusades have been fought over it, many have died throughout the millenniums and it's probably the only place on earth where the three Abrahamic religions have an equal righteous claim over.  It should be declared a free territory which nobody possesses IMO (yes, including East Jerusalem).  Trump by opting for one side over the other has just openly proven to be a dangerous social media troll, unworthy of the position he holds in the world.

1 - He's our President, not yours. 

2 - Hamas was tapped by the Iranian Government when they needed men who would kill their own citizens in the streets. Look up what happened to the Greens in 2009 after the Mullahs didn't like the 'election' results.

 3 - The last time we had a major city Governed in an international way, it was where the first shots of WW2 were fired.

 

All you do is make me more certain that nuking that damned old rockpile is what's best for everyone else involved.

How's that for your "we are the world" approach?

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Setton
1 hour ago, AnchorSteam said:

1 - He's our President, not yours. 

2 - Hamas was tapped by the Iranian Government when they needed men who would kill their own citizens in the streets. Look up what happened to the Greens in 2009 after the Mullahs didn't like the 'election' results.

 3 - The last time we had a major city Governed in an international way, it was where the first shots of WW2 were fired.

 

All you do is make me more certain that nuking that damned old rockpile is what's best for everyone else involved.

How's that for your "we are the world" approach?

Or you could look at the Vatican. Seems to be functioning pretty well independent of any country and a rather better analogue for Jerusalem. 

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aztek

Jerusalem absolutely belongs to  Israel.  give some to Palestinians they will use their part to shoot rockets at israel part.  you would not let a guy with 5 dui\crashes anywhere near your car. same applies here.

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