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Setton

Trump to recognise Jerusalem

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Violent protests break out in Bethlehem as Hamas calls for an uprising and Turkey warns Trump has 'pulled the pin on a bomb' after the US president recognises Jerusalem as Israel's capital

    US President Donald Trump sparked fury across the Middle East by recognising Jerusalem as Israel's capital
    Palestinian protesters seen hurling rocks while Israeli troops fired teared gas to disperse crowds in Bethlehem
    Pro-Hezbollah newspaper al-Akhbar carried front page saying 'Death to America' along with a burning US flag
    Turkish Prime Minister Binali Yildirim said America had 'pulled the pin on a bomb ready to blow in the region'
    Hamas called for 'days of rage' and a new 'intifada' uprising after saying Trump had 'opened the gates of hell'
    Israeli military are to deploy extra troops to the West Bank with mass Palestinian protests expected on Friday
    Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu claims other states are now considering following America's lead


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5154805/Erdogan-Trump-throwing-Middle-East-ring-fire.html#ixzz50aFJv0cH


 

 

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Lilly

Hezbollah and Hamas are going to act out...but these organizations have never really desired peaceful coexistence with Israel anyway.

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RavenHawk

As long as we waffled on acknowledging Jerusalem as the capital of Israel enabled radical Islam and enemies of Israel to continue to defecate on both.  Islam respects strength.  This was a strong move.  Sure Hamas and Hezbollah will riot and what not but do you really think they need an excuse to do so?  Once the shock to people's complacency wears off, more people will come to accept it.  This still may not lead to a two-state solution but it will bring peace and I don't think Islam will be able to stop it.  Israel will become a valuable ally against Iran in the Sunni/Shia conflict that is coming.

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RavenHawk
1 minute ago, Astra. said:

Wasn't Donald Trump warned earlier from many others from around the world that this gesture would no doubt cause further unrest, chaos and mayhem in the ME. ?...does this man ever listen to sound advise that's given, from those who are far more seasoned and experienced in Middle Eastern affairs than he is ? ....honestly, all this man seems to do is stir up trouble and p*** everybody off.  

Is that good advice or just status quo advice?  The experience that we have is to keep doing the same thing.  That hasn’t been working, that is if we really want a solution.  It’s time to stir things up.  People have gotten too complacent.  They need to be p***ed off.

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Astra.
8 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

Is that good advice or just status quo advice?  The experience that we have is to keep doing the same thing.  That hasn’t been working, that is if we really want a solution.  It’s time to stir things up.  People have gotten too complacent.  They need to be p***ed off.

I've got my opinion, you've got yours. End of story. 

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RavenHawk
2 minutes ago, Astra. said:

I've got my opinion, you've got yours. End of story. 

Then let’s shut down the whole forum.

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aearluin

He is like a kid playing with matches. To think this guy as access to all the American nuke codes!!!

Still, is it just pointless recklessness, wanting to see the world burn kind of attitude or is there something to gain from this for the Donald?

Is he looking for business favors from the israelis? 

Some guy in another forum said this was a move to apaziguate the American media outlets which are mostly jewish-biased and hate Trump. Seems vey far-fetched to me...

 

In my opinion it is just a "**** you because I can" move by the biggest dick in the World

Edited by aearluin
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Astra.
3 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

Then let’s shut down the whole forum.

Why ?...there's some members here that I actually like conversing with :)

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RavenHawk
1 minute ago, Astra. said:

Why ?...there's some members here that I actually like conversing with :)

That’s your opinion. :)

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RavenHawk
5 minutes ago, aearluin said:

Still, is it just pointless recklessness, wanting to see the world burn kind of attitude or is there something to gain from this for the Donald?

Has it even dawned on you that his actions may have saved the world from burning?

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Dumbledore the Awesome
1 hour ago, Lilly said:

Hezbollah and Hamas are going to act out...but these organizations have never really desired peaceful coexistence with Israel anyway.

could that have something to do with the fact that the state of Israel has occupied their land and herded them in ghettoes that are effectually open air concentration camps, and labels any resistance to their occupation as "terrorism"? Might that possibly be some grounds for resentment? 

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toast
30 minutes ago, Astra. said:

Wasn't Donald Trump warned earlier from many others from around the world that this gesture would no doubt cause further unrest, chaos and mayhem in the ME. ?...does this man ever listen to sound advise that's given, from those who are far more seasoned and experienced in Middle Eastern affairs than he is ? ....honestly, all this man seems to do is stir up trouble and p*** everybody off.  

He is the King Midas of sh#t. Everything he touch is morphing to poo.

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RoofGardener
4 minutes ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

could that have something to do with the fact that the state of Israel has occupied their land and herded them in ghettoes that are effectually open air concentration camps, and labels any resistance to their occupation as "terrorism"? Might that possibly be some grounds for resentment? 

No :)

When it comes to groups like HAMAS, their grounds for resentment is that (a) Jews exist, and (b) they are not Muslims.

Edited by RoofGardener
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Dumbledore the Awesome

Isn't it so much easier when you can portray your enemy as totally irrational insane fanatics who believe that whichever particular national/political/religious/ethnic group you favour should be wiped out simply out of sheer deranged evil. It saves having to think, or worry about subtleties or historical background or anything. 

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Dark_Grey
22 minutes ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

could that have something to do with the fact that the state of Israel has occupied their land and herded them in ghettoes that are effectually open air concentration camps, and labels any resistance to their occupation as "terrorism"? Might that possibly be some grounds for resentment? 

This is a "chicken or egg?" scenario. Are Palestinians strapping bombs to kids out of desperation for what Israel has done to them or did Israel wall them in because it's the only way to deal with an entire population of potential Jihadists? You can boil it down further to who took who's land but since no one has the right answer we're back to opinions. That part of the world is such a mess - and coincidentally has the highest concentration of Islamic countries. Hmmm...

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RoofGardener
10 minutes ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

Isn't it so much easier when you can portray your enemy as totally irrational insane fanatics who believe that whichever particular national/political/religious/ethnic group you favour should be wiped out simply out of sheer deranged evil. It saves having to think, or worry about subtleties or historical background or anything. 

Absolutely. It saves SO much time and effort :)

Especially when groups like HAMAS and Islamic Jihad are involved :)

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CrimsonKing
4 hours ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

Jerusalem Embassy Act of 1995 was passed by Congress. The law mandated that the embassy be moved to Jerusalem. However, past presidents signed waivers to forego the implementation for a later date.

It is now a later date.

Funny that! Trump upholding the laws. Who would've thought. /sarcasm.

Israel declared Jerusalem its capital in 1950 and as far as the Palestinians are concerned they too could of had a state but they rejected it because they would not recognize Israel as a state.

Facts are pesky little things that interfere with peoples own narratives.

Thanks for this post :tu:

I was pretty sure past presidents have said similair things and it was already "on the books" so to speak...

Not saying it's a good thing or a bad thing as i really don't care either way,but Trump is dealing with past promises and issues others have kicked the can down the road on and if we dont want Trump acting all ballsy and actually doing things like this perhaps we shouldn't have let past politicians feed us bs on theses topics in the past ;)

Meh oh well,not exactly like the ME has been known as the land of peace and prosperity anyway...

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Dark_Grey
11 minutes ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

Isn't it so much easier when you can portray your enemy as totally irrational insane fanatics who believe that whichever particular national/political/religious/ethnic group you favour should be wiped out simply out of sheer deranged evil. It saves having to think, or worry about subtleties or historical background or anything. 

Eh, I had to quote you one more time lol 

How many market or public transit bombs have gone off over there? It's not like Israel is making these stories up. Radicalized Islam is very real. Put the shoe on the other foot: if Palestine had Israel surrounded by a wall, how would they treat the Israelis? Would they wipe them out? I think Israel has done a helluva job considering the firepower they could unleash, if they were so inclined. It speaks to major ideological differences.

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Lilly
35 minutes ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

could that have something to do with the fact that the state of Israel has occupied their land and herded them in ghettoes that are effectually open air concentration camps, and labels any resistance to their occupation as "terrorism"? Might that possibly be some grounds for resentment? 

Continuing to fight this war: http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/six-day-war-begins  isn't going to help matters though. In 1967 the Arab states massed a huge army on Israel's border and Israel decided to fight and ultimately won. That was 50 years ago, time to deal with the here and now.

 

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RavenHawk
50 minutes ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

could that have something to do with the fact that the state of Israel has occupied their land and herded them in ghettoes that are effectually open air concentration camps, and labels any resistance to their occupation as "terrorism"? Might that possibly be some grounds for resentment? 

No, it wasn’t their land.  Under the Ottoman Empire, most Fellahin were migrant farmers or semi-nomadic herders that squatted on lands owned by others.  With the Treaty of Lausanne, most Ottomans sold or just gave up their lands.  Some future Palestinians were able to rightfully purchase lands and acquired proper deeds.  Most were too poor to purchase the land.  So bogus deeds were a dime a dozen.  The Land reforms of 1858 was an attempt to clean this up but even the British were unable to straighten it out by the time the Mandate ended.  Between the two, Israel has the more ancient claim.  They have legally purchased more land than the Palestinians.  And they have legally won territory as spoils of war.  The Palestinian have continually rejected sharing the land with Israel, so they are the only ones responsible for their predicament.  The neighbors never wanted a Palestinian state established and realize that Israel would be a better neighbor but because Israel is Jewish, they are hardly enthused about seeing a permanent solution.  Now, the neighbors have a reason to choose something more permanent.  Nothing has changed with the Palestinians since at least the early 1800s.  The terrorism of then is pretty much the same of today.

Edited by RavenHawk
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RAyMO

doesn't matter

 

Edited by RAyMO

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skliss
1 hour ago, RoofGardener said:

No :)

When it comes to groups like HAMAS, their grounds for resentment is that (a) Jews exist, and (b) they are not Muslims.

Not only that, but there was no such thing as "Palestine" until the 1960's. 

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Farmer77
2 hours ago, aearluin said:

Still, is it just pointless recklessness, wanting to see the world burn kind of attitude or is there something to gain from this for the Donald?

Well Kushner and his family have financial ties to several Israeli banks and they also have invested in at the time illegal Israeli settlements. Seems like a good starting point to me. 

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RoofGardener

Or perhaps he is just doing the right thing ? After all, Congress voted for this ! :) 

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