Expert concludes Roy Moore wrote disputed

[Agent0range]

Ok, so the right says their is no evidence.  Now we have a forensic analysis of the handwritten note to a woman he claims to have never met.  Of course that's not good enough.  But, does evidence of this even matter???  This is a man who has said Muslims shouldn't be allowed to serve in congress.  He's a birther.  He said 9/11 was punishment from God to America.  Called Chinese Americans and Native Americans "reds and yellows".  Sexual assault or not, is this man FIT to serve in the Senate?  Is this man a representative of Republican ideals?  

[Lilly]

There appears to be very different cultural idea in Alabama regarding the age at which females are adult enough to be viewed as women (not children).

See link here: http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2017/08/child_marriage_is_still_legal.html

I suspect that 40+ years ago this was even more so in Alabama. However, none of that matters if Moore raped or sexually assaulted any of these women. But, dating teenagers with parental consent may be a different issue (legally speaking) in this state.

Personally, I find the notion of adult men dating teenaged girls repugnant...but I don't live in Alabama.

[ExpandMyMind]

1 hour ago, Agent0range said:

Ok, so the right says their is no evidence.  Now we have a forensic analysis of the handwritten note to a woman he claims to have never met.  Of course that's not good enough.  But, does evidence of this even matter???  This is a man who has said Muslims shouldn't be allowed to serve in congress.  He's a birther.  He said 9/11 was punishment from God to America.  Called Chinese Americans and Native Americans "reds and yellows".  Sexual assault or not, is this man FIT to serve in the Senate?  Is this man a representative of Republican ideals?  

Don't forget: 

Textbook co-authored by Roy Moore in 2011 says women shouldn’t run for office The course is also critical of the women's suffrage movement.

https://thinkprogress.org/moore-study-course-vison-forum-135402ed8816/

Not only should they not be allowed to hold office then, but they shouldn't have been allowed to decide who else should hold office. 

And he also recently said that the best period in American history was during the same time period as slavery. American families were closer back then, apparently. Well, except for the ones torn apart from each other and sold to the highest bidder, I assume.

Edited December 9, 2017 by ExpandMyMind

[Gromdor]

1 hour ago, Agent0range said:

Ok, so the right says their is no evidence.  Now we have a forensic analysis of the handwritten note to a woman he claims to have never met.  Of course that's not good enough.  But, does evidence of this even matter???  This is a man who has said Muslims shouldn't be allowed to serve in congress.  He's a birther.  He said 9/11 was punishment from God to America.  Called Chinese Americans and Native Americans "reds and yellows".  Sexual assault or not, is this man FIT to serve in the Senate?  Is this man a representative of Republican ideals?  

Technically, none of that disqualifies him as a Senator as per the constitution.  If he gets elected. it's a sign more of a moral decline of values in America in general.  

[Agent0range]

Just now, Gromdor said:

Technically, none of that disqualifies him as a Senator as per the constitution.  If he gets elected. it's a sign more of a moral decline of values in America in general.  

Didn't say it did...

[Gromdor]

5 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Don't forget: 

Textbook co-authored by Roy Moore in 2011 says women shouldn’t run for office The course is also critical of the women's suffrage movement.

https://thinkprogress.org/moore-study-course-vison-forum-135402ed8816/

Not only should they not be allowed to hold office then, but they shouldn't have been allowed to decide who else should hold office. 

And he also recently said that the best period in American history was during the same time period of slavery. American families were closer back then, apparently. Well, except for the ones torn apart from each other and sold to the highest bidder, I assume.

So he's a 1 Timothy 2:11-12 bible kind of guy, eh?

[Farmer77]

1 hour ago, Agent0range said:

Ok, so the right says their is no evidence.  Now we have a forensic analysis of the handwritten note to a woman he claims to have never met.  Of course that's not good enough.  But, does evidence of this even matter???  This is a man who has said Muslims shouldn't be allowed to serve in congress.  He's a birther.  He said 9/11 was punishment from God to America.  Called Chinese Americans and Native Americans "reds and yellows".  Sexual assault or not, is this man FIT to serve in the Senate?  Is this man a representative of Republican ideals?  

Absolutely he is. What you posted is exactly representative of republican ideals. They'll deny it or say "well that's the others in the party I just want small government" but when you are willing to vote for a person with those ideals for political expediency you are claiming those ideals for your own. 

[ExpandMyMind]

13 minutes ago, Lilly said:

There appears to be very different cultural idea in Alabama regarding the age at which females are adult enough to be viewed as women (not children).

See link here: http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2017/08/child_marriage_is_still_legal.html

I suspect that 40+ years ago this was even more so in Alabama. However, none of that matters if Moore raped or sexually assaulted any of these women. But, dating teenagers with parental consent may be a different issue (legally speaking) in this state.

Personally, I find the notion of adult men dating teenaged girls repugnant...but I don't live in Alabama.

16 I believe was the age of consent? And still is? But like you say, the age of consent doesn't matter if he forced himself on them, even with the victims who were above the age of 16. And the ones below that age? Well, that definitely is illegal, consensual or not.

Also, I could be wrong, but even though child marriage is legal, that doesn't mean sexual acts with a child are also legal, does it? 

That article you posted is scary. Alabama is really behind the times on that issue. Why on earth would they vote to keep the age that you can legally marry at 14? How much of their base could they possibly have lost by changing it? They must have thought it was a significant enough amount to vote against that bill, which is even more worrying.

Edited December 9, 2017 by ExpandMyMind

[Lilly]

No, the age at which one can marry in Alabama (with parental consent) is currently 14 years.

From the link I posted:

 Back in May 2001, a bill was introduced into the Alabama Senate that sought to raise the age a person can marry from 14 years-old to 16. But during a late night filibuster, the bill failed to pass.  Lawmakers did not want to raise the age...

The link is from August 2017, so as of August (unless something has happened recently) the age still stands at 14. Like I said though, if Moore raped or sexually assaulted any of these women the age issue would be a moot point.

[Gromdor]

1 minute ago, Lilly said:

No, the age at which one can marry in Alabama (with parental consent) is currently 14 years.

From the link I posted:

 

 

The link is from August 2017, so as of August (unless something has happened recently) the age still stands at 14. Like I said though, if Moore raped or sexually assaulted any of these women the age issue would be a moot point.

You know, if we elect enough politicians with this mindset and Moore's, we might get a federal law dropping age of consent down to 11.  It's only a few more years different, just saying.....

[Lilly]

Just now, Gromdor said:

You know, if we elect enough politicians with this mindset and Moore's, we might get a federal law dropping age of consent down to 11.  It's only a few more years different, just saying.....

There are countries in the world where 10 year olds are legally married to adult men. It's disgusting but this does happen.

I seriously doubt if Alabama will decrease the age. I actually suspect that eventually the age will be increased as the older people (who are more supporting of this ancient idea) die off.

[RAyMO]

11 minutes ago, Lilly said:

The link is from August 2017, so as of August (unless something has happened recently) the age still stands at 14. Like I said though, if Moore raped or sexually assaulted any of these women the age issue would be a moot point.

The age for marriage in a state in the USA is 14 thats 14! How the hell is this possible in the 21st century, circa  50 years  after man walked on the moon. Seriously the USA has some real introspection coming.

Edited December 9, 2017 by RAyMO

[ExpandMyMind]

15 minutes ago, Lilly said:

No, the age at which one can marry in Alabama (with parental consent) is currently 14 years.

From the link I posted:

 

 

The link is from August 2017, so as of August (unless something has happened recently) the age still stands at 14. Like I said though, if Moore raped or sexually assaulted any of these women the age issue would be a moot point.

I wasn't disagreeing with the age of marriage, the link you provided made that clear enough.The 'age of consent' means the age a person is legally allowed to enter into a consensual sexual relationship, and I believe that it is still 16 in Alabama. My point was that even if they can be married off at 14, it would still be illegal for their husband to lay a finger on them until they turn 16. This is my understanding at least.

Edited December 9, 2017 by ExpandMyMind

[Gromdor]

Just now, RAyMO said:

The age for marriage in a state in the USA is 14 thats 14! How the hell is this possible in the 21st century, circa  50 after man walked on the moon. Seriously the USA has some real introspection coming.

Generally places that have poverty or are more religiously fundamentalist, tend to have younger marriage ages.  Daughters are an asset when you are poor, you can marry them off.  And religious wise- well some accounts had Mary as young as 12 when she gave birth to Jesus.

[Lilly]

Well, what about the countries where the marriage age is even lower? And, what about the countries where  the parents can actually force the child to marry?  At least in Alabama the teenager has to want to get married (just needs parental consent). Hey, it's certainly not good in Alabama, but there are places far worse.

[Farmer77]

Just now, Gromdor said:

Generally places that have poverty or are more religiously fundamentalist, tend to have younger marriage ages.  Daughters are an asset when you are poor, you can marry them off.  And religious wise- well some accounts had Mary as young as 12 when she gave birth to Jesus.

So what you're saying is no there will be no introspection coming?

[Gromdor]

Just now, Farmer77 said:

So what you're saying is no there will be no introspection coming?

LOL, Is there any on this thread?

[Lilly]

1 minute ago, ExpandMyMind said:

I wasn't disagreeing with the age of marriage, the link you provided made that clear enough.The 'age of consent' means the age a person is legally allowed to have consensual sexual relationship, and I believe that it is still 16 in Alabama. My point was that even if they can be married off at 14, it would still be illegal for their husband to lay a finger on them until they turn 16. This is my understanding at least.

I don't know for sure, but I suspect once two people are legally married that's not the case.

[ExpandMyMind]

Just now, Lilly said:

Well, what about the countries where the marriage age is even lower? And, what about the countries where  the parents can actually force the child to marry?  At least in Alabama the teenager has to want to get married (just needs parental consent). Hey, it's certainly not good in Alabama, but there are places far worse.

Whataboutism shouldn't really come into it when discussing most subjects, never mind this one. I mean saying something like 'the problem with genital mutilation of women is much worse in Arab countries than it is here in the UK, so I guess it could be worse', doesn't really cut it. The problems at home still have to be addressed, regardless of how much worse it is elsewhere. That is how societies continually improve. 

[RAyMO]

2 minutes ago, Lilly said:

Well, what about the countries where the marriage age is even lower? And, what about the countries where  the parents can actually force the child to marry?  At least in Alabama the teenager has to want to get married (just needs parental consent). Hey, it's certainly not good in Alabama, but there are places far worse.

Lilly you are going to think me very naive: But vis a vie other countries I really expect more from the US.

I know I slate the country at times, it policies and its leadership - but that is relative to what the US should be - not judged against some countries still employing feudal laws.

5 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

And religious wise- well some accounts had Mary as young as 12 when she gave birth to Jesus.

1. yes but that was an immaculate conception

2. times have changed what was acceptable 2000 years ago is not anymore.

[ExpandMyMind]

17 minutes ago, Lilly said:

I don't know for sure, but I suspect once two people are legally married that's not the case.

You might be right. Hell, maybe that's the reason for the age being kept at 14 in the first place - a loophole. But I really hope this is not the case and that the marriage law does not supersede the consent law.

Edited December 9, 2017 by ExpandMyMind

[ExpandMyMind]

Donald Trump fully endorses accused child molester for Senate

Quote

PENSACOLA, Florida — Roy Moore has gotten no stronger endorsement than the one he got from President Trump Friday night.

Trump made it look like an aside during a stump speech.

“This guy’s screaming ‘we want Roy Moore,’” Trump told a crowd in a minor league hockey arena just across the border from Alabama in Pensacola. “He’s right.” 

The president didn’t just say Moore was a potential political ally, which he’s said before. He didn’t just say voters can’t know the truth about allegations Moore pursued and sexually assaulted teenage girls in the 1970s while Moore was in his thirties — which he’s said that before too.
 

https://news.vice.com/story/donald-trump-fully-endorses-accused-child-molester-for-senate

“Get out and vote for Roy Moore,” Trump urged the room. “Do It. Do it.”

Wow.

 

 

[ExpandMyMind]

-Deleted-

Brain fart (we all get them).

Edited December 9, 2017 by ExpandMyMind

[RAyMO]

Out of date

Edited December 9, 2017 by RAyMO

[ExpandMyMind]

1 minute ago, RAyMO said:

@ExpandMyMind You may want to reword that - Allred is the lawyer representing the woman - Beverly Young Nelson

Ah, my bad, cheers.