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ExpandMyMind

Expert concludes Roy Moore wrote disputed

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Lilly

I kind of feel the need to point out something here, many times the teenager getting married is getting married to another teenager. The reason often is because the young lady is pregnant. In a Bible belt culture where being born 'out of wedlock' is still seen as being a very bad thing both families often encourage marriage.

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Michelle
1 minute ago, Lilly said:

I kind of feel the need to point out something here, many times the teenager getting married is getting married to another teenager. The reason often is because the young lady is pregnant. In a Bible belt culture where being born 'out of wedlock' is still seen as being a very bad thing both families often encourage marriage.

Or they are just headstrong. My sister, the spoiled rotten brat, threw a fit because she couldn't marry her 18 year old boyfriend when she was 15. The way she was screaming you'd have thought she was being beaten.

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preacherman76

I see a lot of folks are mad about him looking like he’s gonna win this election. To me if he really did what he is accused of, then he shouldn’t get the job. Thing is there is no evidence against him. You can’t just assume quilt. If that was the standard both sides would make sure no one ever got elected. I’m sorry, but without hard proof I just can’t convict someone. 

Especially in this new age where demonization of political enemies has taken on a life of its own. 

I mean msm had to retract 3 different stories just this week that were all easily verifiably false. Each one being the smoking gun that was gonna take Trump down once and for all. All three were lies. Easily identifiable. 

There is no journalistic integrity anymore. 

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ExpandMyMind
9 minutes ago, Lilly said:

I kind of feel the need to point out something here, many times the teenager getting married is getting married to another teenager. The reason often is because the young lady is pregnant. In a Bible belt culture where being born 'out of wedlock' is still seen as being a very bad thing both families often encourage marriage.

Some stats:

 

 

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Lilly

That’s the entire country....I wonder what the stats are for Alabama (or at least the south)?

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Michelle

There is a lot of conflicting information of the age one can legally marry. California, among others, has no minimum age limit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_marriage_in_the_United_States

 

Edited by Michelle
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ExpandMyMind
44 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

I see a lot of folks are mad about him looking like he’s gonna win this election. To me if he really did what he is accused of, then he shouldn’t get the job. Thing is there is no evidence against him. You can’t just assume quilt. If that was the standard both sides would make sure no one ever got elected. I’m sorry, but without hard proof I just can’t convict someone. 

Especially in this new age where demonization of political enemies has taken on a life of its own. 

I mean msm had to retract 3 different stories just this week that were all easily verifiably false. Each one being the smoking gun that was gonna take Trump down once and for all. All three were lies. Easily identifiable. 

There is no journalistic integrity anymore. 

Retracting mistakes - they weren't lies, as you suggest - and telling the reader that there has been a retraction is the definition of journalistic integrity.

Breitbart, along with many others, still have it on their outlet that this woman 'forged the yearbook'. Fox spun it as as a forgery before being forced to change their article - but they didn't insert a disclaimer to let the readers know that a change has been made, which is a requirement for literally every credible news organisation in the world. And you can bet that Hannity will be drilling 'forgery, forgery, forgery, forgery' into the heads of his cultists.

This is the same Fox that coordinated with the White House to completely fabricate the Seth Rich murder conspiracy.

You speak about journalistic integrity, but the right wing outlets aren't even journalism. They are outright propaganda megaphones. There's not even any denying this since the person who created the platform for Fox news, Breitbart, Infowars, Republican radio and the rest of this extreme right wing media that has grown in the last 30-40 years in the US has basically come out and said so. Namely, Roger Ailes, the puppet-master himself.

Yet you feel that you can somehow criticise mainstream media? That displays an incredibly low level of self-awareness.

Thing is there is no evidence against him

In this sort of crime, witness testimony is the evidence.

Also, you should really read this article to properly understand the lengths to which these news organisations go when vetting this type of accuser:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/womans-effort-to-infiltrate-the-washington-post-dates-back-months/2017/11/29/ce95e01a-d51e-11e7-b62d-d9345ced896d_story.html?utm_term=.5c4b67546df3

Can I ask you, what percentage would you give it that each of these NINE accusers are telling the truth? Does 50% each way per accusation sound fair?

Edited by ExpandMyMind
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ExpandMyMind
25 minutes ago, Lilly said:

That’s the entire country....I wonder what the stats are for Alabama (or at least the south)?

I can't see it being too different for Alabama than the country as a whole. Is there any reason it should be?

 

Edited by ExpandMyMind

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ExpandMyMind
16 minutes ago, Michelle said:

There is a lot of conflicting information of the age one can legally marry. California, among others, have no minimum age limit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_marriage_in_the_United_States

 

But you need judicial approval for any marriage of a minor to be okayed. And this has, from all the records from that Frontline article, never happened with anyone under the age of 14 in California (it doesn't provide stats on any higher ages).

The youngest children to marry were three 10-year-old girls in Tennessee in 2001, who were married to men ages 24, 25 and 31, according to state data. The youngest groom was an 11-year-old boy, also in Tennessee, who married a 27-year-old woman in 2006.

Children as young as 12 were granted marriage licenses in Alaska, Louisiana, South Carolina and Tennessee.

Thirteen-year-olds were given the green light to marry in Alabama, Florida, Idaho, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas and Washington.

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Farmer77
2 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

The youngest children to marry were three 10-year-old girls in Tennessee in 2001, who were married to men ages 24, 25 and 31, according to state data. The youngest groom was an 11-year-old boy, also in Tennessee, who married a 27-year-old woman in 2006.

Oh my god. 

 

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Michelle
7 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

But you need judicial approval for any marriage of a minor to be okayed.

Not in all of the states that have no minimum age.

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preacherman76
13 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Retracting mistakes - they weren't lies, as you suggest - and telling the reader that there has been a retraction is the definition of journalistic integrity.

Breitbart, along with many others, still have it on their outlet that this woman 'forged the yearbook'. Fox spun it as as a forgery before being forced to change their article - but they didn't insert a disclaimer to let the readers know that a change has been made, which is a requirement for literally every credible news organisation in the world. And you can bet that Hannity will be drilling 'forgery, forgery, forgery, forgery' into the heads of his cultists.

This is the same Fox that coordinated with the White House to completely fabricate the Seth Rich murder conspiracy.

You speak about journalistic integrity, but the right wing outlets aren't even journalism. They are outright propaganda megaphones. There's not even any denying this since the people who created the platform for Fox news, Breitbart, Infowars, Republican radio and the rest of this extreme right wing media that has grown in the last 30-40 years has basically come out and said so. Namely, Roger Ailes, the puppet-master himself.

Yet you feel that you can somehow criticise mainstream media? That displays an incredibly low level of self-awareness.

Thing is there is no evidence against him

In this sort of crime, witness testimony is the evidence.

Also, you should really read this article to properly understand the lengths to which these news organisations go to when vetting these sort of accusers:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/womans-effort-to-infiltrate-the-washington-post-dates-back-months/2017/11/29/ce95e01a-d51e-11e7-b62d-d9345ced896d_story.html?utm_term=.5c4b67546df3

Can I ask you, what percentage would you give it that each of these NINE accusers are telling the truth? Does 50% each way sound fair?

They were forced to retract. The first story was exposed the same day and they took a week to retract it. All three were outright lies easily provable from the start. It was easily verifiable and even an old story when exactly Trump ordered Flynn to make Russian contacts after the election, not before. That was completely made up. It was also completely made up that Wikileaks contacted Trump about info before they released it to the public. Wikileaks didn’t even contact him. A friend of Trump sent the article a month after it was released.  I have no idea how they ever thought they were going to get away with any of it. They either didn’t bother to even try and verify these stories, or they think their viewers are idiots. There is no excuse for any single one of these stories to have ever seen the light of day.

She only stated she wrote part of it after she was asked to hand the book over to forensic investigators. She led people to believe he wrote the entire thing. 

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Lilly
31 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

I can't see it being too different for Alabama than the country as a whole. Is there any reason it should be?

 

It's absolutely different in various parts of the country. Where I live (Massachusetts NE USA) it's very, very uncommon to see this type of thing (adult man with a teenage wife). The only time I've ever seen or heard of such a thing was when the people were originally from a foreign country and had immigrated to the US. I'm pretty old too, have seen a great deal. I highly suspect this sort of thing is common to certain areas of the US only.  

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Michelle
8 minutes ago, Lilly said:

It's absolutely different in various parts of the country. Where I live (Massachusetts NE USA) it's very, very uncommon to see this type of thing (adult man with a teenage wife). The only time I've ever seen or heard of such a thing was when the people were originally from a foreign country and had immigrated to the US. I'm pretty old too, have seen a great deal. I highly suspect this sort of thing is common to certain areas of the US only.  

It's not exactly common around here either. I met my husband after my divorce and he's nine years older than me. Out of everyone we have ever known, we pretty much have the biggest age difference.

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ExpandMyMind
12 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

They were forced to retract. The first story was exposed the same day and they took a week to retract it.

But they were retracted, and one was retracted within 24 hours. Basically they were retracted as soon as a mistake was confirmed.

13 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

All three were outright lies easily provable from the start

That simply is not true. Two that I know of were based on the testimony of sources, and that you believe that they were easily provable is just your opinion. You simply cannot know that for sure.

14 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

and even an old story when exactly Trump ordered Flynn to make Russian contacts after the election, not before. That was completely made up.

No, it wasn't, at least not by CNN. They were given this information by a source, the source being the one who made it up or got his facts wrong. And the journalist was suspended for this, showing again that your claim of 'no journalistic integrity' is demonstrably false.

Tell me, how many times has Hannity been suspended for his lies? Yet you come along and try to claim that other news outlets are guilty of things that Fox doesn't even bother to correct or address, when those outlets do address them. You are falsely blaming other outlets for what your own sources enact as policy.

Like I said, the right wing media that has arisen in the US isn't even actually journalism. 

16 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

t was also completely made up that Wikileaks contacted Trump about info before they released it to the public. Wikileaks didn’t even contact him

The date was wrong, but Wikileaks and the Trump campaign were in regular contact, with Wikileaks even suggesting that Trump should leak his tax returns to them so they could appear to be non partisan while they were leaking the DNC emails. I mean this is the true bombshell about that whole scenario. After lying countless times about having no contact with Wikileaks, we now see that there were numerous contacts. It's almost as if they have something to hide.

I find it strange that you seem to think that CNN would just outright fabricate stories. They have had an immense amount of criticism and backlash for these mistakes, while Fox, as per its policy, basically says whatever it wants and suffers no backlash from its consumers. 

Anyway, feel free to continue this discussion in another thread, but this thread needs to stay on topic.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

20 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

She only stated she wrote part of it after she was asked to hand the book over to forensic investigators. She led people to believe he wrote the entire thing. 

See, this isn't actually all that clear. When she read out the statement, she did read all of the statement - but not the date. She obviously knew then that not all the writing should be included because she did not include the date in the statement she gave while speaking to the cameras. She did not ever specifically or explicitly say that the printed part of the note was written by Roy Moore. 

Now, are you trying to say that there is no way that she could have forgotten wee bits and pieces here and there? Maybe muddled things due to the stress of the situation and the decades that have passed since? Did you see the state of her when she was talking to those cameras? She certainly did not look to be in a healthy frame of mind.

But you are completely ignoring the most important part of this: an independent expert has confirmed the forensic value of the note. It has been concluded that Moore did indeed write the note.

He has lied several times about even meeting this woman. Are you now going to apply the same level of scrutiny to him? 

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Farmer77

What Nick Saban could do about Roy Moore 

 

Quote

Given the economic backlash against discriminatory legislation passed in North Carolina and Indiana, many Alabamians -- "mainstream" Republicans alongside the chronically thwarted liberals -- are bracing, if Moore wins the election, for what Tuscaloosa Mayor Walt Maddox told me could be a "catastrophic" blow to state commerce and self-esteem, notably to the 24-karat "brand" of Alabama's second-best-known celebrity, the Tide's coach, Nick Saban. As Saban further assumes the Christ-like mystique of his walking-on-water predecessor, legendary football coach Paul "Bear" Bryant, after Alabama's ascension to the playoffs for the national title -- and as Tuesday's electoral crossroads gains scriptural meaning nationwide -- a natural question arises: What would Saban do?

 

The answer is nothing because he is a better politician than any of the others we've been discussing but the thought process is intriguing. 

Noone knows where the most powerful man in Alabama stands on the issue and unless or until it starts harming his program we never will. 

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ExpandMyMind
18 minutes ago, Lilly said:

It's absolutely different in various parts of the country. Where I live (Massachusetts NE USA) it's very, very uncommon to see this type of thing (adult man with a teenage wife). The only time I've ever seen or heard of such a thing was when the people were originally from a foreign country and had immigrated to the US. I'm pretty old too, have seen a great deal. I highly suspect this sort of thing is common to certain areas of the US only.  

Yes, but I was replying to this:

Quote

I kind of feel the need to point out something here, many times the teenager getting married is getting married to another teenager. The reason often is because the young lady is pregnant. In a Bible belt culture where being born 'out of wedlock' is still seen as being a very bad thing both families often encourage marriage.

I provided the stats for the whole of the US that shows that teenager marrying teenager is not as common as you seemed to suggest. You then said that it doesn't show specifics for Alabama. I was just wondering why you think the numbers might differ in that state, Alabama, compared to the country as a whole? Especially considering that this thing is more common in Alabama than in 45 other states. 

If it were a state like Massachusetts, then I would agree, since the rate of this happening there is so low. But with a state with a much higher rate of this type of thing happening, I would generally think that it would be closer to the numbers given for the whole country. I'd expect it to be the same for all of the worst offenders.

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Lilly

I was just wondering if Alabama was the biggest offender of adults marrying teenagers or if this aberration was more common in other locations. 

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ExpandMyMind
3 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Donald Trump fully endorses accused child molester for Senate

https://news.vice.com/story/donald-trump-fully-endorses-accused-child-molester-for-senate

“Get out and vote for Roy Moore,” Trump urged the room. “Do It. Do it.”

Wow.

 

 

Quoting again for importance. I cannot understate how horrible this is. Your president has openly endorsed a man who is widely known to be a paedophile in Alabama, a man who has been accused by 9 credible women of sexual assault, many of them children at the time. 

This is the world we now live in. It feels like some messed up episode of Black Mirror.

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bee
1 hour ago, preacherman76 said:

 

She only stated she wrote part of it after she was asked to hand the book over to forensic investigators. She led people to believe he wrote the entire thing. 

 we don't have Year Books over here --- do students usually collect autographs and messages in them...?

what you said above is certainly a red flag and also that it has only been brought up now 40 years later at a politically crucial time -

the bit that she added --- that could have been put on at any time I suppose - although it says 1977 - 
perhaps it was written 1977 but was just to remind her of who put the message -- 

Maybe she should be offered a a lie detector test.if she hasn't been already -.

 

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Michelle
2 minutes ago, bee said:

we don't have Year Books over here --- do students usually collect autographs and messages in them...?

Yes, we get all our friends, favorite teachers, principals and coaches to sign them. Basically, all of your favorite people. For the life of me, I can't imagine why she would ask a DA to sign it. They are school specific and you don't ask anyone not affiliated with the school to sign them.

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bee
17 hours ago, simplybill said:

I’ve done the research, and that’s why I said I’d withhold judgment. 

However it’s the research that makes me question the legitimacy of the claims. Traumatized people don’t wait until someone is running for political office to tell their story. The trauma is immediate, overwhelming, and life-changing. I can say with some authority (I have experience in Critical Incident counseling) that traumatized victims don’t ask their abusers to sign their yearbook.

 

good point  (underlined)

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bee
3 minutes ago, Michelle said:

Yes, we get all our friends, favorite teachers, principals and coaches to sign them. Basically, all of your favorite people. For the life of me, I can't imagine why she would ask a DA to sign it. They are school specific and you don't ask anyone not affiliated with the school to sign them.

ok thanks -

 if I was his lawyer I would be trying to find out all his official visits for that year and where their paths might have crossed  - 

 

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ExpandMyMind
34 minutes ago, Michelle said:

Yes, we get all our friends, favorite teachers, principals and coaches to sign them. Basically, all of your favorite people. For the life of me, I can't imagine why she would ask a DA to sign it. They are school specific and you don't ask anyone not affiliated with the school to sign them.

She says he asked to sign it after she put the book down on a counter in his vicinity. And I'm not clear on whether this happened before or after the attack.

Edited by ExpandMyMind

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bee
3 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

She says he asked to sign it after she put the book down on a counter in his vicinity. And I'm not clear on whether this happened before or after the attack.

 

alleged attack

 

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