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pallidin

I will applaud Trump on this...

60 posts in this topic

Considerable gain in defeating ISIS has been accomplished by the Trump administration allowing a more "uncluttered/less red-tape" military position and strikes against ISIS.

I don't like Trump, but I think he does very well in this mandate.

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I'm not sure how much more he has done in attacking ISIS than his predecessor (I've not seen the numbers, only claims), but one thing is clear: it wouldn't have to be much!

Obama's government weren't truly committed to defeating ISIS, at least in Syria. They were allowing convoys to resupply and the free movement of all sorts of terrorists - basically just dragging their feet and sowing chaos. Russia has the same satellite capabilities as the US and they showed almost immediately after they entered just how much the US wasn't doing. 

31 minutes ago, pallidin said:

Considerable gain in defeating ISIS has been accomplished by the Trump administration allowing a more "uncluttered/less red-tape" military position and strikes against ISIS.

Are you referring to Iraq? Because I'm not sure that we can attribute that to Trump, since it's the Iraqis who were fighting ISIS in Iraq and have been doing so for years. Like the economy and other things that have happened this year, you can't just attribute it to the man who happens to be at the helm, whoever he is. You have to be able to show cause and effect.

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isis ( small letters intentional ) was taking ground for long time uncontested. They were spreading rapidly, both in territorial terms and in fortifying it's ideological influence over oppressed civilians in the areas they control. It was beyond every logic and common sense, almost unreal it was but terrorists managed to take control of over half of Syria and much of Iraq. Uncontested.

It was only after Russian intervention in 2015 that isis held areas started to shrink in Syria. In Iraq there are numbers of Iranian backed militias who fought to liberate Iraq. In coming years Iraq will became 'Iran 2' because USA has failed there too. Those are the facts and everything else which we hear is misleading info or lie which is cooked in the offices of ruling elites in USA. Trump is one of them.

Since Bush started war on terror in 2001, those ruling elites have managed to destroy American image across the world, image which was built for long time and that image represented values for which many brave people gave their lives. 

There is a reason why people in Beirut are burning American flags as we speak. There is a reason why USA warns US citizens in foreign countries to be careful and that their lives might be in danger. Especially now as we witness how America, leaded by Trump, destroyed Palestinian reconciliation. Trump induced violence by recognizing Jerusalem as capital of Jewish state with one goal only - that this actual reconciliation gets destroyed in similar way to ''Protective Edge'' and how it dealt with reconciliation deal between Palestinians in 2014.  

By destroying chance for peace Trump has actually helped terrorists, he made fertile land for them because in such harsh environment which is also under military rule it takes just a little step to radicalize those who already feel a lot of pain in their daily lives.

I do not hear how Trump was concerned about Iraqi farmers who were destroyed after fall of Sadam. Iraq seed bank, which contained strains thousands of years old, was burned and it's content destroyed.

Now there is one company, western company which sells modified seeds to Iraqi farmers. Modified so that farmer has to buy them again every year because those plants produce no seed which could be replanted. That is one aspect behind making of isis and it's clear who's fingerprint is all over it.

No, Trump helped isis, as did those in the office before him. Why did isis shrink rapidly when Russia got involved? If America wanted isis gone it would be gone but if that is not true than America is not strong enough in military terms to achieve what Russia did.

God help us all in years which are to come. Disgusting times to live in.

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2 hours ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

isis ( small letters intentional ) was taking ground for long time uncontested. They were spreading rapidly, both in territorial terms and in fortifying it's ideological influence over oppressed civilians in the areas they control. It was beyond every logic and common sense, almost unreal it was but terrorists managed to take control of over half of Syria and much of Iraq. Uncontested.

It was only after Russian intervention in 2015 that isis held areas started to shrink in Syria. In Iraq there are numbers of Iranian backed militias who fought to liberate Iraq. In coming years Iraq will became 'Iran 2' because USA has failed there too. Those are the facts and everything else which we hear is misleading info or lie which is cooked in the offices of ruling elites in USA. Trump is one of them.

Since Bush started war on terror in 2001, those ruling elites have managed to destroy American image across the world, image which was built for long time and that image represented values for which many brave people gave their lives. 

There is a reason why people in Beirut are burning American flags as we speak. There is a reason why USA warns US citizens in foreign countries to be careful and that their lives might be in danger. Especially now as we witness how America, leaded by Trump, destroyed Palestinian reconciliation. Trump induced violence by recognizing Jerusalem as capital of Jewish state with one goal only - that this actual reconciliation gets destroyed in similar way to ''Protective Edge'' and how it dealt with reconciliation deal between Palestinians in 2014.  

By destroying chance for peace Trump has actually helped terrorists, he made fertile land for them because in such harsh environment which is also under military rule it takes just a little step to radicalize those who already feel a lot of pain in their daily lives.

I do not hear how Trump was concerned about Iraqi farmers who were destroyed after fall of Sadam. Iraq seed bank, which contained strains thousands of years old, was burned and it's content destroyed.

Now there is one company, western company which sells modified seeds to Iraqi farmers. Modified so that farmer has to buy them again every year because those plants produce no seed which could be replanted. That is one aspect behind making of isis and it's clear who's fingerprint is all over it.

No, Trump helped isis, as did those in the office before him. Why did isis shrink rapidly when Russia got involved? If America wanted isis gone it would be gone but if that is not true than America is not strong enough in military terms to achieve what Russia did.

God help us all in years which are to come. Disgusting times to live in.

Blah, Blah, Blah....

ISIS began to decline and decline very rapidly when Trump began doing as he promised he would...Bombing the **** out of them.

Have you forgot the MOAB?  Do you have any idea what that did to ISIS?  Virtually destroyed the Higher Archy of Networkers living in tunnels underground.  Kind of like what W did to Osama...yeah...would OBAMA have ever dropped a MOAB?  No.

Trump keeps his promises!   Get used to it!   Making America  Great Again!

You know...before Trump announced he was running for President...no one had anything bad to say about him...no one called him a racist, no one called him a homophobe....but now, if Trump farts..The Press will tell  you to hate him for it...and what is really really sad...is that you all listen to, and believe, and obey the Press.  Unbelievable!

Edited by joc
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20 hours ago, pallidin said:

Considerable gain in defeating ISIS has been accomplished by the Trump administration allowing a more "uncluttered/less red-tape" military position and strikes against ISIS.

I don't like Trump, but I think he does very well in this mandate.

And you know this how? I have not seen anything  relevant mentioned in news media (I dont watch english speaking news channels, too much commercials)

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Based on the information currently available, I really don't think Donald Trump did that much to accelerate the decline of ISIS. The roots of that go back many years, starting with the reformation of the Iraqi army, and the capacity-building work with the Kurdish fighters. (and yes, the increased involvement of the Russians, and a host of other actions, big and small). 

3 hours ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

....There is a reason why people in Beirut are burning American flags as we speak. There is a reason why USA warns US citizens in foreign countries to be careful and that their lives might be in danger. Especially now as we witness how America, leaded by Trump, destroyed Palestinian reconciliation. Trump induced violence by recognizing Jerusalem as capital of Jewish state with one goal only - that this actual reconciliation gets destroyed in similar way to ''Protective Edge'' and how it dealt with reconciliation deal between Palestinians in 2014...... 

What "Palestinian reconciliation" ? There IS no "Palestinian reconciliation". There never has been. 

As for "... induced violence"... have you not been struck by the ABSENCE of violence ? (relatively speaking). The response from the surrounding Muslim nations was muted. And the riots in the West Bank (along with the three rockets launched by HAMAS) where perfunctory to say the least. 

It's all rather strange. 

 

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3 hours ago, joc said:

ISIS began to decline and decline very rapidly when Trump began doing as he promised he would...Bombing the **** out of them.

 

Can you provide evidence that supports this claim? I've seen it mentioned numerous times, but never with any corroborating evidence.

3 hours ago, joc said:

Have you forgot the MOAB?  Do you have any idea what that did to ISIS?  Virtually destroyed the Higher Archy of Networkers living in tunnels underground.  Kind of like what W did to Osama...yeah...would OBAMA have ever dropped a MOAB?  No.

 

And for the above too, please.

3 hours ago, joc said:

You know...before Trump announced he was running for President...no one had anything bad to say about him...no one called him a racist, no one called him a homophobe....but now, if Trump farts..The Press will tell  you to hate him for it...and what is really really sad...is that you all listen to, and believe, and obey the Press.  Unbelievable!

This simply isn't true. He was sued as far back as the 70s for discriminating against black tenants, not to mention his comments about Native Americans when he was in the casino business. His racism has never been in question and was widely known and there are far more examples of it if you are willing to look.

The opinion on his views of the LBGT community has come directly from his policies. 

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21 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Can you provide evidence that supports this claim? I've seen it mentioned numerous times, but never with any corroborating evidence.

Try getting your news from somewhere other than the Fake News Outlets...CNN, NYT, ABC, NBC, CBS.  They report in a left slanted fashion what they want you to know...and don't even report what they don't want you to know.

And for the above too, please.

This simply isn't true. He was sued as far back as the 70s for discriminating against black tenants, not to mention his comments about Native Americans when he was in the casino business. His racism has never been in question and was widely known and there are far more examples of it if you are willing to look.

Yeah...dirty tricks...trying to get the welfare crowd...mostly black into high rises.

Two months later, Trump Management, represented by Roy M. Cohn, turned around and sued the United States government for $100 million (roughly $500 million in today’s terms), asserting that the charges were “irresponsible and baseless.”

“Mr. Trump accused the Justice Department of singling out his corporation because it was a large one, and because the government was trying to force it to rent to welfare recipients,” The Times reported.

Under an agreement reached in June 1975, Trump Management was required to furnish the New York Urban League with a list of all apartment vacancies, every week, for two years. It was also to allow the league to present qualified applicants for every fifth vacancy in Trump buildings where fewer than 10 percent of the tenants were black.

The opinion on his views of the LBGT community has come directly from his policies. 

 

Edited by joc
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29 minutes ago, joc said:

Try getting your news from somewhere other than the Fake News Outlets...CNN, NYT, ABC, NBC, CBS.  They report in a left slanted fashion what they want you to know...and don't even report what they don't want you to know.

 

That isn't how this works. If you make a claim, the burden of proof lies with you to back up that claim with evidence. You have not done so - and neither has anyone else that I can see - and until you do, I'm afraid it's impossible for me to believe you or anyone else.

Edited by ExpandMyMind
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Ok Joc please provide link to credible news source

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3 hours ago, godnodog said:

Ok Joc please provide link to credible news source

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/07/losing-ground-fighter-morale-is-it-all-over-for-isis-syria-turkey

Since mid-July, Isis has been methodically pushed from towns and villages it controlled near the Turkish frontier by the most concerted ground advance of the past two years. The jihadist group now looks to be far less of a threat to the regional order than when its leader, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, proclaimed his rule over a swath of eastern Syria and western Iraq in mid-2014.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/15/us-mother-of-all-bombs-moab-afghanistan-donald-trump-death-toll

 

More than 90 Islamic State militants were killed when the US military dropped an 11-ton bomb on eastern Afghanistan, according to the Afghan government.

The US military has not released a casualty toll and declined to comment on the Afghan numbers. “We are still conducting our assessment,” it said.

The US deployed the largest conventional bomb it has ever used in combat on 13 April, striking a complex of tunnels and bunkers used by Isis militants in Achin district in Nangarhar province.

 

Edited by joc

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6 minutes ago, joc said:

So no then, you don't have any facts or figures that back up your assertion that Trump is responsible for the decline of ISIS. Unless those were the last 92 ISIS terrorists in Israel?

That bomb was also dropped in Afghanistan. What exactly are the logistics of travelling from Afghanistan to Syria? Probably a few hills in the way I'd imagine.

Edited by ExpandMyMind
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3 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

So no then, you don't have any facts or figures that back up your assertion that Trump is responsible for the decline of ISIS. Unless those were the last 92 ISIS terrorists in Israel?

That bomb was also dropped in Afghanistan. What exactly are the logistics of travelling from Afghanistan to Syria? Probably a few hills in the way I'd imagine.

Links didn't work right..fixed...

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12 minutes ago, joc said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/07/losing-ground-fighter-morale-is-it-all-over-for-isis-syria-turkey

Since mid-July, Isis has been methodically pushed from towns and villages it controlled near the Turkish frontier by the most concerted ground advance of the past two years. The jihadist group now looks to be far less of a threat to the regional order than when its leader, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, proclaimed his rule over a swath of eastern Syria and western Iraq in mid-2014.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/15/us-mother-of-all-bombs-moab-afghanistan-donald-trump-death-toll

 

More than 90 Islamic State militants were killed when the US military dropped an 11-ton bomb on eastern Afghanistan, according to the Afghan government.

The US military has not released a casualty toll and declined to comment on the Afghan numbers. “We are still conducting our assessment,” it said.

The US deployed the largest conventional bomb it has ever used in combat on 13 April, striking a complex of tunnels and bunkers used by Isis militants in Achin district in Nangarhar province.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Isis is on the run.  They are diminished in practically every stronghold they have encountered...and that has happened since Trump became POTUS and let the Military fight the war they wanted.

 

Edited by joc

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Just now, joc said:

Links didn't work right..fixed...

From the sub-headline of that first article:

Quote

The self-styled caliphate has been in rapid decline since Turkey joined the war in northern Syria.

 

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4 minutes ago, joc said:
15 minutes ago, joc said:

Isis is on the run.  They are diminished in practically every stronghold they have encountered...and that has happened since Trump became POTUS and let the Military fight the war they wanted.

 

I'm pretty sure there has been a full eclipse since Trump came into office too. Was he responsible for that also? After all it happened during his reign.

Edited by ExpandMyMind
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16 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

From the sub-headline of that first article:

Quote

The self-styled caliphate has been in rapid decline since Turkey joined the war in northern Syria.

 

You take one sentence..out of context...to prove what?  Why do you think Turkey began  to fight ISIS?  And what was the time line of that?

Read more my friend

http://www.businessinsider.com/links-between-turkey-and-isis-are-now-undeniable-2015-7

  • Jul. 28, 2015, 3:57 PM Article Published
  • Amidst protesters' chants of "Murderous ISIL, collaborator AKP," Erdogan finally agreed last Thursday to enter the US-led campaign against ISIS, sending fighter jets into Syria and granting the US strategic use of a key airbase in the southeast to launch airstrikes.
Edited by joc
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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/isis-syria-civil-war-turkey-al-bab-united-states-aleppo-peace-talks-astana-a7546406.html

Wednesday 25 January 2017
The Turkish army is suffering unexpectedly serious losses in men and equipment as it engages in its first real battle against Isis fighters holding al-Bab, a small but strategically placed city north east of Aleppo. Turkish military commanders had hoped to capture al-Bab quickly when their forces attacked it in December, but they are failing to break through Isis defences.

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May 9, 2017 - WASHINGTON — President Trump has approved a plan to arm Syrian Kurds so they can participate in the battle to retake Raqqa from the Islamic State, ... American military officials have said that weapons are needed to help the lightly armed Kurdish and Arab fighters cope with urban warfare in Raqqa .

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https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/17/world/middleeast/isis-syria-raqqa.html
OCT. 17, 2017
BEIRUT, Lebanon — American-backed forces said on Tuesday that they had seized the northern Syrian city of Raqqa from the Islamic State, a major blow to the militant group, which had long used the city as the de facto capital of its self-declared caliphate.

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7 minutes ago, joc said:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/isis-syria-civil-war-turkey-al-bab-united-states-aleppo-peace-talks-astana-a7546406.html

Wednesday 25 January 2017
The Turkish army is suffering unexpectedly serious losses in men and equipment as it engages in its first real battle against Isis fighters holding al-Bab, a small but strategically placed city north east of Aleppo. Turkish military commanders had hoped to capture al-Bab quickly when their forces attacked it in December, but they are failing to break through Isis defences.

The point - and it has been made by others in the thread - is that there are a lot of contributing factors in the decline of ISIS in Syria, the most important being Russia's entry. You can read about it here. All of the main territorial gains have come from the Russians:

Quote

 

 
Result

Ongoing

  • Pro-government forces increase controlled territory fourfold from 19,000 sq km to 78,000 sq km[21][22]
  • Major pro-government strategic gains in Latakia, Palmyra, Raqqa, Deir ez-Zor, Damascus, and Aleppo theaters[23][24]
  • Russian forces partially withdraw in mid-March 2016[25][26][27]
  • Russian airforce in indefinite deployment,[28] air-strikes to continue post-withdrawal[29]

 

The decline didn't start when Trump became the President. All that was left when he came into power was basically the clean-up.

 

Edited by ExpandMyMind
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8 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:
  11 hours ago, joc said:

ISIS began to decline and decline very rapidly when Trump began doing as he promised he would...Bombing the **** out of them.

 

2 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

The point - and it has been made by others in the thread - is that there are a lot of contributing factors in the decline of ISIS in Syria, the most important being Russia's entry. You can read about it here.

The decline didn't start when Trump became the President

I never said he Started the decline...there were a lot of things done when Obama was President...

What I said is true...ISIS began to decline and decline very rapidly when Trump began doing as he promised he would...Bombing the **** out of them.

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You're just posting individual events. I could do that with operations carried out by the last administration.

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Just now, joc said:

 

I never said he Started the decline...there were a lot of things done when Obama was President...

What I said is true...ISIS began to decline and decline very rapidly when Trump began doing as he promised he would...Bombing the **** out of them.

I edited the post to show that there was basically barely anything left of ISIS when Trump came into power. Russia had already done all the heavy lifting.

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1 minute ago, ExpandMyMind said:

You're just posting individual events. I could do that with operations carried out by the last administration.

You wanted some facts I gave you some.

here are some more

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2017/06/rise-fall-isil-explained-170607085701484.html


20 Jun 2017
Today, ISIL's territories are shrinking as its fighters face mounting pressure from a US-led coalition, as well as Syrian President Assad's regime backers. Many observers have sounded the coalition attack on Mosul as ISIL's death knell. However, ISIL will always present tremendous problems for state governments - even in its retreat.


http://www.newsweek.com/trump-isis-raqqa-isis-capital-687391


Trump’s change in approach has been praised by Mattis and other generals, who say it has allowed them to take the fight to ISIS without waiting on approval from the White House. “No longer will we have slowed decision cycles because Washington, D.C. has to authorize tactical movements on the ground,” said Mattis at a Pentagon press conference in May

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