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PsiSeeker

The astonishing uselessness of refuting God

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Hre2breal
3 minutes ago, MauriOra said:

Absolutely Hre2breal....

We know what negativity causes, and I think thats enuff for a millennia...

Time for Change...

Seeking of Knowledge without Judgement is what is Wanted...

I want that...

So I Go Do....

And so say all of us...!!

Hip hip hooray........ Lol..

Dam Straight !!!!

 

 

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MauriOra
Just now, Hre2breal said:

Dam Straight !!!!

 

 

Not Too Straight My friend..!!

Let's add a Spiritual Wave.... Lol...

Motion...Movement... Change...

Flow.....

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I'mConvinced
On 16/12/2017 at 5:55 PM, PsiSeeker said:

I have once thought that religion came about simply because existence is so unbelievably boring

I think it was science, not religion, that came about because existence is so unbelievably boring.

Religion gives you a reason to exist but also removes uncertainty, science is the great mystery and that excites and drives people forwards, even those of complete faith in some cases.

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Hre2breal

For the most part I personally dont worship god or have a religious preference.However I have lost loved ones an had my fair share so far of grief an It has been at these times I have questioned just how I really feel an just what I really do believe..

 

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Hre2breal
7 minutes ago, MauriOra said:

Not Too Straight My friend..!!

Let's add a Spiritual Wave.... Lol...

Motion...Movement... Change...

Flow.....

Hahaha I likes the waves..

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MauriOra
3 minutes ago, Hre2breal said:

Hahaha I likes the waves..

Yeah....

Me toooo....

Hahaha...xx

Awesome You..

.

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MauriOra
10 minutes ago, I'mConvinced said:

I think it was science, not religion, that came about because existence is so unbelievably boring.

Religion gives you a reason to exist but also removes uncertainty, science is the great mystery and that excites and drives people forwards, even those of complete faith in some cases.

Well Said Sir.....

Science does have some Real Cool Stuff....

Way more exciting then the Religion being hoisted on our Mind Set in todays Society.......

I'm in Agreement....!!

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PsiSeeker
1 hour ago, I'mConvinced said:

I think it was science, not religion, that came about because existence is so unbelievably boring.

Religion gives you a reason to exist but also removes uncertainty, science is the great mystery and that excites and drives people forwards, even those of complete faith in some cases.

Touche'

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Kenemet
9 hours ago, PsiSeeker said:

If truth can not stand up to idle speculation than it doesn't deserve to be called truth as far as I'm concerned.  The truth should welcome all and any challenge its claim as truth.  I used to lord truth.  In recent times, probably the last 5-10 years, I've come to realise how insanely difficult it is to say a thing that is true in all frames of reference.  Coming up with universal indefinite truth that is a fundamental aspect of all of existence is incredibly difficult from my thinking about it.

Anyway, my statement is mostly directed at atheists.  Saying one doesn't believe in God and then defending that point is a useless activity as far as I'm concerned.  That's just due to how I've come to think of God.

Regardless of who was quoting what where it's still apt. 

So let's examine that -- are you are saying that...

* If you don't believe in the Zoroastrian deity it is useless to try and refute the Zoroastrian deity? (for instance, a Christian should never attempt to refute the Zoroastrian deity?)

* Only Muslims who believe in the Muslim deity can attempt to refute the Muslim deity and say he doesn't exist?

* Or perhaps "No one has the right to refute my personal beliefs in my interpretation of my deity?"

* Or "What each individual believes must be the universal truth and no one can refute it?"

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Kenemet
10 hours ago, PsiSeeker said:

Maybe the way I worded what I said wasn't very good.Basically...  I had a vision in my head of what I expected from society and people.  I'm highly critical of myself and have high expectations of myself.  It's disheartening to see the state of the world falling short from what I expected when growing up.  This is my own fault and something I have to come to terms with that so I don't end up living a life of disappointment.

Was your view of the world as a child as sophisticated and aware of the structure (political and social and financial) of the world as your view is as an adult?  Are you disappointed that the child did not understand the world in the way the adult does or are you disappointed that the adult's world isn't as black-and-white and uncomplicated as the child's world?

Quote

All in all I believe that where we're at presently is far better than where we've been and, in general, I'm fairly optimistic of the future

I would agree with this.

 

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PsiSeeker
1 hour ago, Kenemet said:

So let's examine that -- are you are saying that...

* If you don't believe in the Zoroastrian deity it is useless to try and refute the Zoroastrian deity? (for instance, a Christian should never attempt to refute the Zoroastrian deity?)

* Only Muslims who believe in the Muslim deity can attempt to refute the Muslim deity and say he doesn't exist?

* Or perhaps "No one has the right to refute my personal beliefs in my interpretation of my deity?"

* Or "What each individual believes must be the universal truth and no one can refute it?"

What I say follows from assumptions I make after attempting to establish first principles regarding divinity.  All divine things seem to require the same fundamental thing.  

1. That one believes in a diety or many dieties. 

Without even bothering to consult scripture or bothering to check what religion or belief system we're talking about I see no holes in my thinking in making this assumption.

From this I make the following observation

a)  Belief is a proposal

After careful thinking I make another observation seeing as we're talking about belief and not emperical scientific evidence or what have you.

b ) The truth, realness or status of existence of this proposal should not and, as far as my thinking goes, does not actually matter.

Now what is one left with?  To say yay or to say nay!

So why would I point at the astonishing uselessness of taking the stance of refuting God or whatever deity or deities?  Because one's natural stance is already one of non belief.  Pointing out that one takes this stance is the same as doing nothing at all!  Trying to debate others about it is even worse.

Now I make the following observation should one choose to believe in a diety

i)  Believing isn't as easy as flicking an on switch and coming to a state of belief isn't the same for every person.  Once one decides to believe or says one believes doesn't automatically follow that one believes!  It just means that one has now set one's feet upon the path and one is learning what it takes to believe!

So again, why the astonishing uselessess of refuting belief?  If one could decide for oneself what it takes to believe something then along the way one gains insight into one's own ignorance as well as the ignorance of others.  In so doing progression of self knowledge becomes possible as well as the nature of one's belief.

Any attempt at refuting any deity is a waste of time given that that is the fundamental premise of systems of belief.  Once one understands that belief in a deity is a choice then so too is believing in whatever doctrine follows from that.  Understanding that the deity is the fundamental constituent is what's important.  One can just as easily choose to not bother with the doctrine if it doesn't aid one's ability to believe in the deity, which is all one is really asked to do.  If some holy person describes said deity as such and such and it doesn't aid one's ability to believe then why bother listening to that holy person?

Note, this isn't the same as saying you can believe whatever you want.  Because you can't do that.  Not honestly at any rate.  Believing things have the uncanny ability of proving true, false or growing one's ignorance and potentially being detrimental to humanity as a whole.  Anyway, what one will and won't believe easily becomes narrower and narrower the older one gets.

Anyway, hopefully this illustrates a little more what I mean. 

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PsiSeeker
3 hours ago, Kenemet said:

Was your view of the world as a child as sophisticated and aware of the structure (political and social and financial) of the world as your view is as an adult?  Are you disappointed that the child did not understand the world in the way the adult does or are you disappointed that the adult's world isn't as black-and-white and uncomplicated as the child's world?

I would agree with this.

 

The world was far more sophisticated and complicated when I was a child.  I placed humanity, and adults in general, on a pedestal.  Well, adults proved to be far more flawed than I thought and humanity as a whole exhibiting group mentality to a greater degree than I would have thought possible as a kid.

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seekyefirst

Anybody ever watch Chuck Missler?  Biggest aha moment I ever had was from his YouTube video about the nephilim and UFO's.  I mean, you think you know something and then there's Chuck.  

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Podo
23 hours ago, seekyefirst said:

Anybody ever watch Chuck Missler?  Biggest aha moment I ever had was from his YouTube video about the nephilim and UFO's.  I mean, you think you know something and then there's Chuck.  

Oh boy, nephilim. Which video is this? I need something amusing to watch.

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seekyefirst
5 hours ago, Podo said:

Oh boy, nephilim. Which video is this? I need something amusing to watch.

Just YouTube him.  You'll get hooked.  like HOOKED.  lol

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