Is Trump a scapegoat ?

[IBelieveWhatIWant]

9 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Was Obama a scapegoat?

Are all presidents scapegoats?  As the figurehead of the nation, do they all get credit and blame for things they didn't do?  Has it really changed except for the fact that people are a lot ruder than they were  a generation or two ago?

I don't believe people are ruder now than they were a few generations ago. I personally believe that had the internet been around in the 50's - 80's etc. You would find that people would be just as rude and outspoken as they are today. The only difference now is that due to the internet it gives everyone and their dog and platform to speak.

[Lilly]

President Obama was in no way jumped upon by the media in the manner Trump has been. The vast majority of the press loved Obama. The birth certificate thing was silly and the mainstream media said so many times over. However, no quarter is ever given to Trump...he's vilified on a daily basis. Hell, I even saw a couple of 'the fair minded media' attacking Trump because he drinks diet Coke for goodness sakes. And the 'orange Hitler' thing is just outrageous. God only knows what would have happened were President Obama attacked based on his complexion.

Attacking any President in this manner is wrong, wrong no matter what their party affiliation.

Oh, and the 12 diet Cokes and 8 hours of TV stuff has not even been corroborated, but that doesn't stop CNN:

 

[Tatetopa]

15 hours ago, IBelieveWhatIWant said:

I don't believe people are ruder now than they were a few generations ago. I personally believe that had the internet been around in the 50's - 80's etc. You would find that people would be just as rude and outspoken as they are today. The only difference now is that due to the internet it gives everyone and their dog and platform to speak.

Very good insight.  Being anonymous gives the trolls courage because they can stay in the shadows and snipe.   

[Tatetopa]

14 hours ago, Lilly said:

And the 'orange Hitler' thing is just outrageous. God only knows what would have happened were President Obama attacked based on his complexion.

"Ape in High heels?" Pictures of Obama and his wife as monkeys and chimpanzees?  I would say they got attacked on their complexion more than a little.

Put that aside for a minute.  Yes, I think Donald Trump gets a lot of criticism from the media that supported Obama and a lot of props from the media that criticized Obama.  Its a lot more about parties than it is about truth and individuals,  That is unfortunate.  Until we move past that, we will lose ground.  We can't maintain a world power as a divided nation.

President Trump seems at war with everything that was part of America before he came into office.  He badmouths individuals and policy.   If you love your country and also know that there are some messed up things about it, it is still hard not to bristle and take offense when every institution is stupid, and all of our policies are stupid and the CIA is incompetent and the FBI is a criminal cabal.  I want to support the president, but I don't want to think the nation I have spent the last 60 years in is that much of a basket case.  It has provided its citizens with prosperity and lead the world in human rights and given hope to the world. 

[Michelle]

1 hour ago, Tatetopa said:

"Ape in High heels?" Pictures of Obama and his wife as monkeys and chimpanzees?  I would say they got attacked on their complexion more than a little.

You so need to check out this link.

https://www.google.com/search?q=pictures+of+president+Bush+as+a+chimp&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwinkNzzrpXYAhUBayYKHW8NCoYQsAQIJg&biw=1093&bih=530

It has been standard practice for years before Obama even thought about running for president. The color of Obama's skin had nothing to do with it. Neither did the hanging or burning effigies. The only reason it suddenly became racist was because we elected a black president.

The media treated Obama with kid gloves. Every differing opinion was considered racist. I'd had it up to my eyebrows. Hillary said one of the many reasons she didn't win was because of influence from women's husbands. One of the most condescending, sexist attitudes I've ever heard. Like the average woman doesn't have a mind of her own.

I can't imagine how bad it would be if she had won. On the other hand, we now have a president I can disagree with without so many unsubstantiated verbal attacks.

[Lilly]

8 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

"Ape in High heels?" Pictures of Obama and his wife as monkeys and chimpanzees?  I would say they got attacked on their complexion more than a little.

 

Right out on the mainstream news networks that kind of thing took place? Absolutely not, that disgusting stuff only came from far fringe racist organizations. There's no comparison as to how the majority of mainstream (so called respectable) news sources treat Trump vs how they treated Obama.

Examples of the 'Hitler speech' and the ML King bust removal come to my mind: http://video.foxnews.com/v/5294245639001/?#sp=show-clips

[Tatetopa]

15 hours ago, Lilly said:

Right out on the mainstream news networks that kind of thing took place? Absolutely not, that disgusting stuff only came from far fringe racist organizations

Well Lilly, no doubt you are right about where it originated, but I read it in MSM along with millions of other people I guess.  Then there was the birther stuff and the Muslim reports on Fox.  

But, I don't totally disagree with you or Michelle.  President Trump is having a rough time with a lot of the press.  The liberal part of the press finds fault, the conservative part of the mainstream press like FOX finds things to praise. Maybe they are all fake news. Part of it is his confrontational style though.  He punches at things and some of them punch back.  Maybe its just New York billionaire style.  You can choose for everybody to like you, or you can choose power and getting your way.  Probably can't have both.  Which do you think is more valuable for a president?

 

[Tiggs]

On 12/18/2017 at 5:06 AM, Lilly said:

Oh, and the 12 diet Cokes and 8 hours of TV stuff has not even been corroborated, but that doesn't stop CNN:

His affection for Diet Coke is fairly well known:

http://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/281441-trump-celebrates-clinching-nomination-with-mcdonalds-diet-coke
http://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-drinking-diet-coke-history-633436
http://www.foxnews.com/health/2017/01/24/different-eating-habits-presidents-obama-and-trump.html
https://www.axios.com/trump-101-he-is-definitely-not-a-health-nut-2240700410.html
 

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

The dude drinks Diet Coke? Whoopty ****ing doo.

[ChrLzs]

It surely cannot get any worse than the hideous practice of asking about someone's health and their Diet Coke um... err .. diet.  Those people should be locked up.

Thanks, Tiggs, for those links - but I'm totally sure that's all fake tho......

 

and in case there's any doubt, yes, sarcasm is in use here...

No, actually a better word is bewilderment at the defense of the indefensible...  But they do say you get what you deserve, so enjoy, USA. 

[Tiggs]

4 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

The dude drinks Diet Coke? Whoopty ****ing doo.

I don't care, either.

Lilly wanted corroboration. I supplied her with some.

[bee]

 

O....M...G

diet coke

IMPEACH !!!!

 

 

[Phaeton80]

Well, lets 'scapegoat' poor Trump - saviour of the American People - some more, shall we..

What do we make of Trump’s recent national security speech?

Quote

[..]

In an era of neoconservative celebration of US world hegemony, Trump accuses his predecessors of losing confidence in America. This is extraordinary.

When a country’s entire foreign policy is based on the assumption that it is the “exceptional and indispensable country,” how is this a loss of confidence? It is massive arrogance and hubris. The problem is not a loss of confidence by the rulers but an overbearing hubris.

Then Trump claims that through him, Americans again rule their nation.

He says that now Washington is serving the citizens. Looking at the tax bill, he must mean that citizens consist of the One Percent.

He next associates making America first with more money for the military.

Then he blames Iran for terrorism, something that Iran lives in fear of, but he does not mention Saudi Arabia’s support for terrorism or that of the US military/security complex’s which encourages terrorism as a weapon against Iran and Russia and as an excuse for its massive budget and power.

Trump then claims credit for the Russian/Syrian defeat of ISIS. It has been proved that ISIS is supported and financed by Washington. Trump’s claim is even more ridiculous than the previous claims of the Obama regime that the US defeated National Socialist Germany. Russia, which did defeat Germany, was not invited to the anniversary celebration.

Trump next demands that the countries we defend pay for it. Who are these countries and who do we defend them from? He can only mean Europe, Canada, Australia, Israel, and Japan. Is Washington defending them from Russia, China, North Korea and Iran or from the terrorists Washington creates, arms, and supplies to overthrow Libya, Syria and whatever countries Washington is successful siccing terrorists on. Apparently, some of these CIA-created terrorist organizations break loose from their creator and conduct operations on their own. So, Washington is a government that creates its own enemies.

Trump next brags on the sanctions he has imposed on “the North Korean regime.” He doesn’t mention, and I would bet he does not know, that Washington has withheld a peace treaty since the 1950s from North Korea. Washington has kept the war status open for 64 years. Having seen the fate of Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Somalia, etc., little wonder North Korea wants nuclear weapons.

[..]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-12-19/paul-craig-roberts-rages-against-trumps-national-security-speech

*What should be pointed out here is that although the author is richly critical towards Trump in this instance, he has been promoting Trump to the extreme in the not so distant past.

Who would have thought the continual harassment of significant parts of the hated mainstream media would go so far, make people so blind to the fact nothing has truely changed. Pro- Trumpers keep passionately grabbing the supposed mediawar against this new POTUS as proof he is the 'anti establishment outsider' he has marketed himself as, while passionately ignoring all the blazing red flags that beg to differ.

Fascinating.

This man will be the epitaph on the grave of a nation that we all used to love and respect, the land of the free and the brave, The United States of America. And those attending the funeral will be sporting T shirts, buttons and caps boasting 'Make America Great Again'.

 

[Lilly]

3 hours ago, Tiggs said:

I don't care, either.

Lilly wanted corroboration. I supplied her with some.

I'm pretty sure Trump drinks a great deal of diet coke. It's the 12 a day number that I question and the frenzy to imply that it will be a death sentence (wishful thinking for some perhaps?).

As for the 'Trump's fat and he's gonna die' mantra...keep in mind that thin older people die first, followed by the morbidly obese, so called normal weight folks next, with the slightly overweight folks living the longest of all weight groups.

See link on this research: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3865852/

 

[Gromdor]

I had a friend who was convinced that Diet Coke makes you fat.  Because the only people he has ever seen drinking it was fat people and no amount of arguing would change his mind.  The irony to me is that people seem to hold the same concept in things like politics or other situations. (Bring up Diet Coke always reminds me of the guy)

Edited December 20, 2017 by Gromdor
grammar

[Lilly]

Here's a bit of 411 about how a country survives and prospers:

1) A country needs to have military protection. Everyone needs protection in all aspects of living, this is just a fact of life. The world is a very dangerous place and there are those who wish us extreme ill will.

2) A country needs borders in order to know and control who is entering the nation. We need to be able to make sure who is who, allowing those who do not wish us well unfettered entry is just plain stupid.

3) A country needs to do business and needs to be competitive in doing business. If the tax rates are so high that business just up and leaves a nation it will not be able to survive in the long run.

4) A country needs to be able to maintain some control over those who are in power. Historically, the US has done well due to our Constitution and the checks and balances inherent in our system. However, recently there has been overstepping and corruption by certain groups in our government, this needs to stop. If the FBI can set itself up to be the ultimate authority in our society then we are in big trouble. If the FBI was involved in creating that Steele dossier then used their creation to obtain FISA warrants we're looking at an unprecedented abuse of power.

This stuff is common sense really and blaming Trump for failings by others (scapegoating) isn't going to help matter at all.

[Gromdor]

3 minutes ago, Lilly said:

Here's a bit of 411 about how a country survives and prospers:

1) A country needs to have military protection. Everyone needs protection in all aspects of living, this is just a fact of life. The world is a very dangerous place and there are those who wish us extreme ill will.

2) A country needs borders in order to know and control who is entering the nation. We need to be able to make sure who is who, allowing those who do not wish us well unfettered entry is just plain stupid.

3) A country needs to do business and needs to be competitive in doing business. If the tax rates are so high that business just up and leaves a nation it will not be able to survive in the long run.

4) A country needs to be able to maintain some control over those who are in power. Historically, the US has done well due to our Constitution and the checks and balances inherent in our system. However, recently there has been overstepping and corruption by certain groups in our government, this needs to stop. If the FBI can set itself up to be the ultimate authority in our society then we are in big trouble. If the FBI was involved in creating that Steele dossier then used their creation to obtain FISA warrants we're looking at an unprecedented abuse of power.

This stuff is common sense really and blaming Trump for failings by others (scapegoating) isn't going to help matter at all.

I'm not so sure about that.  I took a wrong turn once and drove through Luxmburg.  It had no practical border and a military of 450.

Not sure any of the list is true, to be honest.  History has many instance of countries that were ruled by oppressive emperors and monarchs.  Countries where the King owned all.  Many of them lasted longer than America has been around.

[Lilly]

3 hours ago, Gromdor said:

I'm not so sure about that.  I took a wrong turn once and drove through Luxmburg.  It had no practical border and a military of 450.

Not sure any of the list is true, to be honest.  History has many instance of countries that were ruled by oppressive emperors and monarchs.  Countries where the King owned all.  Many of them lasted longer than America has been around.

NATO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_states_of_NATO serves to protect most of Europe.

Oppressive nations in the past did indeed flourish, they had military power, protected their borders, had agriculture, business and trade. The power was all in the hands of the nobility and ultimately the king. Only the ruling class mattered to those in power and all final decisions were in the hands of the monarchy. Not exactly the type of government most modern people would be all that happy to live under.

[The Narcisse]

12 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

The dude drinks Diet Coke? Whoopty ****ing doo.

I agree. It's not like he's eating arugula or fancy mustard!

[CrimsonKing]

7 hours ago, Gromdor said:

I had a friend who was convinced that Diet Coke makes you fat.  Because the only people he has ever seen drinking it was fat people and no amount of arguing would change his mind.  The irony to me is that people seem to hold the same concept in things like politics or other situations. (Bring up Diet Coke always reminds me of the guy)

What is funny is,though diet coke isn't 100% responsible for making one fat studies are showing it can be just as bad if not worse than regular high sugar colas!

People tend to drink them as though they won't have any effect on their diet but more and more studies are showing links between "diet"/sugar free consumption and prediabetes!

Your friend may have been ahead of his time,and as to comparing it to politics that would ring true once again...many people steadfastly and stubbornly adhere to what their party leaders tell them is 100% fact,only to find out years down the road that said ideas were wrong and a slow slide into bad shape 

[Tatetopa]

22 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

The dude drinks Diet Coke? Whoopty ****ing doo.

Yeah, crazy isn't it?  Who cares what he eats?  I remember when Hannity was all lathered up because Obama put spicy brown mustard on a hamburger.  Does Sean count as mainstream media or is he in the far right racist camp?

[Tatetopa]

On 12/18/2017 at 10:18 PM, Michelle said:

You so need to check out this link.

Good job Michelle.  Thanks for the attitude adjustment.  I like to cling to fair and impartial, but sometimes the media does favor the left more than a bit.

[Tatetopa]

10 hours ago, Lilly said:

Oppressive nations in the past did indeed flourish, they had military power, protected their borders, had agriculture, business and trade. The power was all in the hands of the nobility and ultimately the king. Only the ruling class mattered to those in power and all final decisions were in the hands of the monarchy. Not exactly the type of government most modern people would be all that happy to live under.

I agree with that totally.   That is why big multinational corporations scare me as much as foreign governments.  That is what I am afraid we are on the way to becoming.  To me, America was better off when most people were farmers, craftsmen, small shop owners or worked for a business with a few employees.  There was a lot more equality of wealth, not saying it was perfect, but maybe better than it is now.  Both parties, left and right sing about jobs, jobs, jobs as if working for a big corporation was the only way to go.  Maybe somebody should advocate for trades, local businesses, family farms, and more personal responsibility and independence.

[Kismit]

Just an aside.

I knew I had seen this somewhere so I went and found it.

It's ironic really

Original link below

https://mobile.twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/257552283850653696?lang=en

And no I do not care what he drinks. I just enjoy the irony of it.

[CrimsonKing]

10 minutes ago, Kismit said:

Just an aside.

I knew I had seen this somewhere so I went and found it.

It's ironic really

Original link below

https://mobile.twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/257552283850653696?lang=en

And no I do not care what he drinks. I just enjoy the irony of it.

Are you saying The Donald is Gromdor's...friend