Slender Man stabbing: girl gets 25 years

[pallidin]

Surely the victim of those horrible 19 stab wounds said "tis but a scratch"...

 

[Merc14]

17 minutes ago, pallidin said:

Surely the victim of those horrible 19 stab wounds said "tis but a scratch"...

 

Not fair Pallidin, not fair.  You win however and Merry Christmas

[simplybill]

1 hour ago, Merc14 said:

Yes, we must let her out as soon as possible, after all she only stabbed the 12 year old girl 19 times.  Just a small issue there. Hey, maybe you can foster her when she is released in 3 years!  Enjoy.  

 

1 hour ago, pallidin said:

Why are you dismayed?

In a minimum security prison, there’s likely to be more opportunities for rehabilitation and education. 

[pallidin]

Just now, simplybill said:

 

In a minimum security prison, there’s likely to be more opportunities for rehabilitation and education. 

Would not a secure mental health facility be more proper in this, well, obviously abnormal criminal event?

 

[simplybill]

1 hour ago, pallidin said:

Would not a secure mental health facility be more proper in this, well, obviously abnormal criminal event?

 

Yes, but only until the delusional behavior is successfully treated. I don’t know all the facts about Ms. Weier’s mental condition, but going by her statements made in court, she already realizes her delusional behavior was wrong. She doesn’t appear to be an incurable psychotic.

I just now did a brief internet search to compare educational opportunities in Correctional facilities and Mental Health facilities. It looks as though Correctional facilities offer better choices.

This is from the Michigan Department of Health and Human Services/Kalamazoo Psychiatric Hospital:

“KPH is required by law to provide Special Education services to any patient who is age 18 to 26 and has not yet completed high school. Our staff includes a certified Special Education Teacher, a school teacher and two aides. In addition, KPH is committed to assisting all patients whose treatment goals include furthering their education. KPH works cooperatively with The Kalamazoo Regional Educational Service Agency (KRESA), Kalamazoo Public Schools Adult Education Program and Kalamazoo Valley Community College (KVCC). Educational opportunities for patients include assistance with high school completion, GED and the opportunity to earn college credits through on-line programs at KVCC. Patients who are interested in furthering their education should discuss their goals with their treatment team.”

http://www.michigan.gov/mdhhs/0,5885,7-339-71550_2941_4868_4896-295626--,00.html

This is from the U.S. Department of Education:

“The federal government, as part of the president’s Prisoner Reentry Initiative, has provided more than $100 million to communities to develop programming and training strategies to improve employment and other post-release outcomes of ex-offenders. The president’s Prisoner Reentry Initiative was reauthorized and its programs expanded by the Second Chance Act of 2007. Inmate access to postsecondary education opportunities also was recently increased by the Higher Education Opportunity Act of 2008. Through these and other initiatives, a growing number of states are working diligently to identify effective methods, including correctional education, to better prepare inmates for rejoining society.”

https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ovae/pi/AdultEd/prison-cc-partnerships_2009.pdf

The conclusion I’ve drawn from these two government sources is that education is a higher priority in the Prison system than in the Mental Health system.

In my opinion, incarceration as punishment is necessary and just, but the end goal should be a successful reentry into society.

 

Edited December 25, 2017 by simplybill
Added link.

[thatgrimlife]

14 hours ago, Piney said:

It started it's existence as a parody written by Ben Franklin with a groin shot to Daniel Leeds. Similar to how the Slender Man started.

Now that's not a version of its history that I've heard. I'll have to look it up.

[Piney]

2 hours ago, The Ghastly Grimoire said:

Now that's not a version of its history that I've heard. I'll have to look it up.

That's how it happened. I'll see if I still have the full details in the history files at my Quaker Meetinghouse. You can also do a search of this site. I posted the story here a couple of times.

[rashore]

I don't think the sentencing unwarranted. Weier and Geyser were delusional about Slenderman, that's one thing. And also, they planned the murder out for six months, planning the place and equipment needed, who their victim would be and how to lure them out. Some of their plans shifted last minute, but they did plan it out for months before attempting the murder. They almost succeeded. For me, it's not just the crazy of believing Slenderman that much- it's also the mental twirk that led those girls to plan out a killing like that.

Both Weier and Geyser with their lawyers opted to plead guilty by reason of mental illness. There was never really any question that Weier and Geyser would be getting locked up- it was just a matter of plea deals to resolve if there would be trials or not, prison or a mental institution. At this time, Weier has been considered to have been serving time since she was first held in 2014. Geyser's sentencing is scheduled for February at this time, and she is likely to be facing a similar sentence.

Unfortunately at this time, there is either prison or institution for cases like this- there really aren't long term facilities, or really even good short term ones IMO meant to handle this sort of thing. Because fortunately, it's still really rare that children that young do this sort of crime.

 

 

[Sooth Sayer]

21 hours ago, The Ghastly Grimoire said:

 

 

They used to have classes that taught things like that. They were phasing them out when I was in high school, though. That was almost ten years ago now.... wow. Thanks for making me feel old!

I didn't make you feel old. 

I was simply asking a question you old youngin. 

[Merc14]

4 hours ago, rashore said:

I don't think the sentencing unwarranted. Weier and Geyser were delusional about Slenderman, that's one thing. And also, they planned the murder out for six months, planning the place and equipment needed, who their victim would be and how to lure them out. Some of their plans shifted last minute, but they did plan it out for months before attempting the murder. They almost succeeded. For me, it's not just the crazy of believing Slenderman that much- it's also the mental twirk that led those girls to plan out a killing like that.

Both Weier and Geyser with their lawyers opted to plead guilty by reason of mental illness. There was never really any question that Weier and Geyser would be getting locked up- it was just a matter of plea deals to resolve if there would be trials or not, prison or a mental institution. At this time, Weier has been considered to have been serving time since she was first held in 2014. Geyser's sentencing is scheduled for February at this time, and she is likely to be facing a similar sentence.

Unfortunately at this time, there is either prison or institution for cases like this- there really aren't long term facilities, or really even good short term ones IMO meant to handle this sort of thing. Because fortunately, it's still really rare that children that young do this sort of crime.

Well said rashore and thanks, you are far more knowledgeable on the unfortunate subject than myself.  I still have nightmares of watching those two young boys lead that 5 year old out of the train station and bludgeon him to death for no reason.  I keep my young son close.

[Sir Smoke aLot]

This is a tragedy with serious implications of what we can expect in the future if medias, education and generally the entertainment industry do not change their ways to include more tools with which to positively act on people's minds, especially children.

We've taken wrong turn somewhere and our societies are getting degraded by all sorts of bad influences many of which are not intentional but simply not evaluated enough.

It's not that those two girls had dreams in which they figured out that murdering of their classmate would save their lives. The price we pay for one time pleasures or for imaginary and totally artificial values is getting higher and i can't tell where the limit is.

Maybe i'm just one of a kind but these things bother me a lot. Three little girls got their lives destroyed i can just hope that at least one of them succeeds and move on from this situation.

[rashore]

Update on this. Morgan Geyser has seen her court date, and has been sentenced. 40 years in the mental institution, with her two years there already served time. 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/morgan-geyser-makes-tearful-apology-is-handed-max-sentence-in-slender-man-stabbing/

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/crime/2017/10/05/second-girl-slender-man-stabbing-case-committed-mental-hospital/733886001/

[Piney]

49 minutes ago, rashore said:

Update on this. Morgan Geyser has seen her court date, and has been sentenced. 40 years in the mental institution, with her two years there already served time. 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/morgan-geyser-makes-tearful-apology-is-handed-max-sentence-in-slender-man-stabbing/

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/crime/2017/10/05/second-girl-slender-man-stabbing-case-committed-mental-hospital/733886001/

What she really needs is a horse size syringe of Buthinasia.....

[GlitterRose]

On 12/25/2017 at 2:03 PM, rashore said:

I don't think the sentencing unwarranted. Weier and Geyser were delusional about Slenderman, that's one thing. And also, they planned the murder out for six months, planning the place and equipment needed, who their victim would be and how to lure them out. Some of their plans shifted last minute, but they did plan it out for months before attempting the murder. They almost succeeded. For me, it's not just the crazy of believing Slenderman that much- it's also the mental twirk that led those girls to plan out a killing like that.

Both Weier and Geyser with their lawyers opted to plead guilty by reason of mental illness. There was never really any question that Weier and Geyser would be getting locked up- it was just a matter of plea deals to resolve if there would be trials or not, prison or a mental institution. At this time, Weier has been considered to have been serving time since she was first held in 2014. Geyser's sentencing is scheduled for February at this time, and she is likely to be facing a similar sentence.

Unfortunately at this time, there is either prison or institution for cases like this- there really aren't long term facilities, or really even good short term ones IMO meant to handle this sort of thing. Because fortunately, it's still really rare that children that young do this sort of crime.

 

 

I think people can be mentally ill and still able to plan things. 

Their plans are just crazy. 

They should be in a high security mental institution for the criminally insane. 

[rashore]

Just now, ChaosRose said:

I think people can be mentally ill and still able to plan things. 

Their plans are just crazy. 

They should be in a high security mental institution for the criminally insane. 

To my understanding, they are. Last I heard it was the high security section of Winnebago.

[GlitterRose]

Just now, rashore said:

To my understanding, they are. Last I heard it was the high security section of Winnebago.

Good.

[glorybebe]

On 12/22/2017 at 11:15 AM, freetoroam said:

Crazy people who believe anything they see or read on the internet, tis unfortunate that because they know how to access the internet, they believe they are clever...when on fact they have

My daughter had an acquaintance loke that.  She was telling me stuff she read on the internet as fact.  I told her it was not true, I had done a lot of reading in history on that very same subject.  "But I read it on the internet"... uh huh.  

[freetoroam]

1 hour ago, glorybebe said:

My daughter had an acquaintance loke that.  She was telling me stuff she read on the internet as fact.  I told her it was not true, I had done a lot of reading in history on that very same subject.  "But I read it on the internet"... uh huh.  

Problem is they tend to read it on one site, they like that site, so they stick with it and do not "research" any other sources. 

Why are so many people 'hooked' to one story without even thinking about checking out its history? It is not as if it is not all at the touch of a few buttons. They do not have to get up and go to the library...they just need to open a new tab and research. 

This is worrying today, it is so so simple to research and check out reviews and information on near on everything. Even youtube have comments for and against.

But some people, like these 2 girls, have read a piece and they are not going to detour to educate themselves or research,  they have choosen to believe...because they want to.

This kind of mindset makes them a danger to themselves 'mentally' and in some cases ( like this one) a danger to others mentally and physically.

The internet is opening up our eyes to how gullible and dangerous the human race can be.

Some people believe because they have access to the www and know how to set up a facebook or twitter account, they have intelligence - not so!!! 

[rashore]

I'm not sure it is just the internet making or breaking the belief thing in cases like this. There have been other cases through the years of this kind of devil made me do it or belief jumping like this. Or belief like they believe they are vampires or other killing critters. Or taking fiction into fact, like the kids who did the Resevoir Dogs copycat killing. Or no killing in this jump, but the recent story where AHS fans keep breaking into a house because they think it's haunted because they watched the show. They do seem to be fairly rare thankfully enough. The general trend with true crime and UL's/fictions has been the TC inspires the UL rather than the UL being brought to TC.

I'm pretty sure that slenderman is the first digital/UL age devil to prompt the jump. Or at least I can't think of any else off the top of my head.

 

 

 

[freetoroam]

1 hour ago, rashore said:

I'm not sure it is just the internet making or breaking the belief thing in cases like this.

It is not just the internet, as you point out, before the internet came along, people have believed in stories and believed in them to the  extent that they actually go out of the norms of reality to put the stories into practice. 

It can only end badly...for the believer and for their victims.

The internet is just another way to access the fantasy stories, but they have to still go into the real world to harm others physically.

Edited February 11, 2018 by freetoroam

[Piney]

3 hours ago, rashore said:

I'm not sure it is just the internet making or breaking the belief thing in cases like this. There have been other cases through the years of this kind of devil made me do it or belief jumping like this.

The "Lestat 90s" with kids thinking they were vampires or werewolves.

[Rlyeh]

Wouldn't be the first time someone has killed for their imaginary friend.

[justin3651]

According to articles in the paper here(I live an hour or so from where it was) they can both apply to get out or be moved to a lesser place like a secure group home regularly. Once they get their schizophrenia and other mental health issues stable and under control they will likely be out by 21. They will still need to keep up with their counseling and not get in trouble for 25 years and 40 years though or they can be re committed.

[justin3651]

In regards to the crime, truly horrifying but they were just kids who both have severe legitimate mental health issues and once they are stable and have proven they will stay stable I have no problems with them being out and walking our streets. I truly doubt they'd ever re-offend short of having a long stretched severe hallucinatory schizophrenia episode.

[rashore]

16 hours ago, justin3651 said:

According to articles in the paper here(I live an hour or so from where it was) they can both apply to get out or be moved to a lesser place like a secure group home regularly. Once they get their schizophrenia and other mental health issues stable and under control they will likely be out by 21. They will still need to keep up with their counseling and not get in trouble for 25 years and 40 years though or they can be re committed.

 

16 hours ago, justin3651 said:

In regards to the crime, truly horrifying but they were just kids who both have severe legitimate mental health issues and once they are stable and have proven they will stay stable I have no problems with them being out and walking our streets. I truly doubt they'd ever re-offend short of having a long stretched severe hallucinatory schizophrenia episode.

Thanks for the local input justin. This particular UL to TC jump his home for me too. I've been tracking the slenderman legend for quite a while now, and a couple of my hometowns are in the area. You must be pretty deep into the SE pocket if you are only an hour away.

But I kind of disagree with you on the mental health and safety with the gals. Geyser I feel more optimistic about. Despite the fact that she did more of the actual harm, she also seems to have shown more true remorse, and seems more of the dupe susceptible to egging on.. Weier I'm a bit more skeptical about.