Trump: $7 trillion ‘foolishly spent’ in ME

[Gromdor]

Looks like he is withholding aid to Pakistan now:  http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/01/politics/white-house-pakistan-military-aid-cuts/index.html

My take on that particular aid money was that it was basically a bribe to let the US do drone strikes in Pakistan on Al Qaeda and the like.

[Sir Smoke aLot]

On 12/30/2017 at 10:15 AM, RoofGardener said:

I'm not so sure. I think a lot of people admired him for it. Lets not forget that something like this has happened before, without the sky falling in. The US cancelled aid to Yemen back in the late 1990's following their adverse SC vote. And the idea of linking aid to SC/GA votes goes back WAY before Donald Trump entered the scene. 

https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/nations-benefit-most-us-foreign-aid-often-oppose-us-positions-un

You may dislike the idea, but it is not unique to Trump  

As for the $7 Trillion... I think he is WAY off the mark there. Especially when you consider that the biggest recipient - Israel - doesn't actually GET much the 'cash', but instead gets credits to purchase US military equipment. So part of the 'aid' is actually a US-Taxpayer subsidy to the likes of McDonald Douglas and Northrop.  

According to this story, the aid figure across the middle east is around $300 Billion over 60 years.... https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/19/us-aid-middle-east_n_3779275.html

Of course, he COULD be referring to the cumulative (and future) costs of liberating Kuwaut, invading and occupying Iraq, and Afghanistan. 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iraq-war-anniversary/iraq-war-costs-u-s-more-than-2-trillion-study-idUSBRE92D0PG20130314

That is fair evaluation if we look at it generally but let's not forget how only 9 nations ( including the USA and Israel ) voted in favor of resolution and my point is, in respect to the result of the vote - that American soft power is declining and it took mountains of money and scheming to get to the point it was. That is only aspect i focus on here and it seems reasonable to me.

Such way of spreading influence is much more powerful than that of military ways. 

Let's take Pakistan for example, aid money opened the way for American logistics and military transit which seems invaluable, considering American military might and foreign politics tactics&goals. By losing Pakistan it makes serious implications on geopolitical game and Trump should know that.

[Sir Smoke aLot]

25 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

My take on that particular aid money was that it was basically a bribe to let the US do drone strikes in Pakistan on Al Qaeda and the like.

Indeed and bmo USA will continue to have logistical access over Pakistani territory, regardless of these changes which were announced by Trump.

[RoofGardener]

1 hour ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

That is fair evaluation if we look at it generally but let's not forget how only 9 nations ( including the USA and Israel ) voted in favor of resolution and my point is, in respect to the result of the vote - that American soft power is declining and it took mountains of money and scheming to get to the point it was. That is only aspect i focus on here and it seems reasonable to me.

Such way of spreading influence is much more powerful than that of military ways. 

Let's take Pakistan for example, aid money opened the way for American logistics and military transit which seems invaluable, considering American military might and foreign politics tactics&goals. By losing Pakistan it makes serious implications on geopolitical game and Trump should know that.

I'm not really clear on how "soft power" could have liberated Kuwait ?

Edited January 2, 2018 by RoofGardener

[SHaYap]

Soft Power would have spared Kuwait from the ignominy of having to be 'liberated ...

~

[Black Red Devil]

$7 trillion sounds over-bloated but let's assume its true.  This figure must be an accumulation of aid and wars but aid only constitutes a bit over a quarter of a trillion $ (since the end of WWII and guess who got the largest chunk of that pie?)  So this means the remaining amount (6.75 trillion $) was spent on wars and invasions.   So basically Trump is saying no more money spent on wars.  Well that's a lot of hot air but at the same time excellent news, although I wonder how that's going to sit with all the NeoCons in Congress who have been itching for a war with Iran since the Shah days? 

Also, aid to Israel is inevitably ongoing and so is aid to Egypt, the second largest recipient and always a healthy strategic ally, close to Israel and geographically encompasses that small part of the land called the Suez Canal.  So he might cut a few million $ in aid to the Iraqi's and Palestinians.  What a trooper!

[Sir Smoke aLot]

21 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

I'm not really clear on how "soft power" could have liberated Kuwait ?

That's irrelevant but when you mention it the war in Kuwait was started over false allegations, same as with Iraq. Reason behind Iraq attacking Kuwait, the major one, was that Iraq had large debt to Kuwait ( aid money for Iraq's war against Iran back in 1980s ).

 

[Unusual Tournament]

4 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

$7 trillion sounds over-bloated but let's assume its true.  This figure must be an accumulation of aid and wars but aid only constitutes a bit over a quarter of a trillion $ (since the end of WWII and guess who got the largest chunk of that pie?)  So this means the remaining amount (6.75 trillion $) was spent on wars and invasions.   So basically Trump is saying no more money spent on wars.  Well that's a lot of hot air but at the same time excellent news, although I wonder how that's going to sit with all the NeoCons in Congress who have been itching for a war with Iran since the Shah days? 

Also, aid to Israel is inevitably ongoing and so is aid to Egypt, the second largest recipient and always a healthy strategic ally, close to Israel and geographically encompasses that small part of the land called the Suez Canal.  So he might cut a few million $ in aid to the Iraqi's and Palestinians.  What a trooper!

alot of that money also went back into the American military/industrial complex and then into the U.S. economy as armament contracts and other support services. kinda like subsiding American companies with extra work. no wonder the American economy under president Bush was red lining. 

Edited January 3, 2018 by Captain Risky

[Sir Smoke aLot]

4 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

Well that's a lot of hot air but at the same time excellent news, although I wonder how that's going to sit with all the NeoCons in Congress who have been itching for a war with Iran since the Shah days? 

I will always remember American ambassador in Iran saying to Iranian official : '' I know you told me not to allow Shah in the USA but please help us '' after the embassy was taken by students. This spoken sentence contains the essence of Iranian and American hostility. 

Right now Iran is necessary outside enemy for majority of countries which control population by fear. There is nice update from Iran, people are going out on the streets and showing support for their government. They also condemn those who have resorted to violence.

Nikki Haley asked for UNSC meeting regarding Iran and it was rejected. Another proof that American power is declining but after few of Trumps remarks against Iran and it's people... NeoCons are American greatest enemies and it was always '' Israel first '' but with Trump it is evident.

I wonder if Kushner did actually share bed with Bibi... It didn't take a lot of time since Lyndon Johnson for Israeli interests to became most important aspect in American politics and daily life to some extent. Climax is American police training with IDF apartheid military.

The world is watching

[RoofGardener]

2 hours ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

.. It didn't take a lot of time since Lyndon Johnson for Israeli interests to became most important aspect in American politics and daily life to some extent. Climax is American police training with IDF apartheid military.

The world is watching

The IDF is apartheid ???

[Sir Smoke aLot]

1 hour ago, RoofGardener said:

The IDF is apartheid ???

Israel is apartheid state, dunno how you made conclusion that '' IDF is apartheid '' because you can not relate it only on army - it is systematic oppression which is described as an apartheid and IDF is part of the system.

But, since you ask, actually it might be Zimbabwe army which is stationed in Palestinian occupied lands and Zimbabwe army makes sure that military rule stays strong and oppress civilians. IDF is not even there...

https://www.timesofisrael.com/soldiers-shoot-kill-palestinian-teen-suspected-of-having-a-gun-idf/

Just recently IDF killed 17 year old boy because they believed he was holding a gun ( which of course wasn't the case )... Since when do Palestinians in West Bank have guns? One afraid IDF soldier has the right to kill kids out of fear and he is not held responsible at all. If that's not apartheid than this world is beautiful place to live in. Spare me IDF's statements of how '' we will look into it ''.

 

[+and-then]

1 hour ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

Since when do Palestinians in West Bank have guns?

Only when they decide to kill Israelis.  But guns aren't necessary when a good kitchen-knife will do.  The Palis will come to the table when their leaders no longer receive blood money from Europe and the U.S.  

[RoofGardener]

22 hours ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

Israel is apartheid state, dunno how you made conclusion that '' IDF is apartheid '' because you can not relate it only on army - it is systematic oppression which is described as an apartheid and IDF is part of the system....

Umm... it was YOU that stated that the IDF was apartheid, in your post #34 ? 

As for the Israeli state being "apartheid", that is Palestinian propaganda, and utterly rubbish. In the context of the Middle-East, Israel is not apartheid in any rational meaning of the term. 

[RoofGardener]

23 hours ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

-shoot-kill-palestinian-teen-suspected-of-having-a-gun-idf/

Just recently IDF killed 17 year old boy because they believed he was holding a gun ( which of course wasn't the case )... Since when do Palestinians in West Bank have guns? One afraid IDF soldier has the right to kill kids out of fear and he is not held responsible at all. If that's not apartheid than this world is beautiful place to live in. Spare me IDF's statements of how '' we will look into it ''.

 

It was a violent protest. And shots are fired at both the IDF and Israeli civilians quite frequently. Including from Mosques, including the Dome of the Rock. Cry me a river. 

[Phaeton80]

On 4-1-2018 at 4:02 PM, RoofGardener said:

Umm... it was YOU that stated that the IDF was apartheid, in your post #34 ? 

As for the Israeli state being "apartheid", that is Palestinian propaganda, and utterly rubbish. In the context of the Middle-East, Israel is not apartheid in any rational meaning of the term. 

 

;-) Yeah thats right, everything that doesnt fit the Zionist narrative - where the state of Israel is the everlasting victim, no matter how agressively and amorally she behaves - is either Palestinian or UN propaganda, isnt it.

Israeli apartheid is a two-tiered system of favoritism and privilege for Jews compared with deprivation and discrimination against Palestinian Arabs. It covers many facets of political, social, and economic life, including standard of living, education, housing and development, access to water and roads, an unequal system of justice, land ownership, and freedom of movement. In addition, it has many special features, such as the absolute control that the Israeli military ultimately exercises over all Palestinians in the Occupied Territories and the recent construction of a Separation Barrier or Apartheid Wall. This wall is meant not only to confiscate land from Palestinians to expand illegal settlements but also to make it impossible for Palestinians to have a contiguous and viable state of their own.
 

Apartheid (South African English pronunciation: /əˈpɑːrteɪd/; Afrikaans: [aˈpartɦəit], lit. "separateness") was a system of institutionalised racial segregation and discrimination that existed in South Africa between 1948 and 1991. It was based on white supremacy and the repression of the black majority of the population for the benefit of the politically dominant group, Afrikaners and other whites.^[1]
 

Quote

Historic Report, U.N. Agency Says Israel Is Imposing an “Apartheid Regime” on Palestinian People

'Israeli Practices towards the Palestinian People and the Question of Apartheid'

[..]"This report establishes, on the basis of scholarly inquiry and overwhelming evidence, that Israel is guilty of the crime of apartheid. However, only a ruling by an international tribunal in that sense would make such an assessment truly authoritative. The authors therefore urge the United Nations to implement this finding by fulfilling its international responsibilities in relation to international law and the rights of the Palestinian people as a matter of urgency "[..]

 

..And ofcourse, the world - including the UN - is biased against Israel, not in favor of it. The Palestinians, however inept they may seem, have actually seeded their sphere of influence throughout the Western political spectrum.. thereby maliciously re envigorating the age old Anti Semitical machinations we have come to expect against the Jew, the everlasting victim..

The Complete Censored ESCWA Report: “Israel Practices towards the Palestinian People and the Question of Apartheid”

"Censorship is applied by the UN body on the explicit instructions of the US government, which alongside Israel is responsible for extensive war crimes against the people of the Middle East. U.S. ambassador Nikki Haley accuses the UN of propagating anti-Israeli propaganda pointing to Prof. Richard Falk as a conspiracy theorist."

 

Edited January 7, 2018 by Phaeton80

[SHaYap]

The times ...
 

Quote

 

~

Orthodox Israelis Spit On Whorish 8-Year-Old Girl For Going To School

https://jezebel.com/.../orthodox-israelis-spit-on-whorish-8-year-old-girl-for-going-to-s...

Dec 27, 2011 - Her tormenters aren't fellow children, but rather adult men upset by the presence of the "immodest" girls attending school in their ultra-Orthodox neighborhood. ... The case of 8-year-old Naama Margolese, who was born in Chicago, has upset some Israelis, and for good reason.

~

WATCH: Ultra-Orthodox spit on “immodest” 8-year-old girl in Beit ...

https://972mag.com/watch-ultra-orthodox-spit-on-immodest-8-year-old.../31268/

Dec 25, 2011 - Since the report, the Israeli Prime Minister has spoken about it, the Haredi Beit Shemesh Mayor has condemned it, Haredim in Beit Shemesh attacked a Channel 2 news team who came to town again on Sunday, and ..... I can direct you to lots of videos of settlers spitting on and THROWING ROCKS at kids.

~

A spitting incident sets off Israeli frustration with Jewish zealotry ...

https://www.csmonitor.com/.../A-spitting-incident-sets-off-Israeli-frustration-with-Jewi...

The harassment of a schoolgirl by Beit Shemesh's ultra-Orthodox community has ignited mainstream Israelis' simmering frustrations with the religious community's growing influence. By Joshua Mitnick, Correspondent December 27, 2011. close. An ultra-Orthodox Jewish man stands with children near a police barricade ...

~

Girl, 8, becomes poster child for anti-Haredi backlash - Haaretz - Israel ...

https://www.haaretz.com/girl-8-becomes-poster-child-for-anti-haredi-backlash-1.4035...

Dec 26, 2011 - The outpouring of support for Na'ama has been matched, if not surpassed, by the public outrage at 'Moshe,' the Haredi driver who, in a televised report, explained why spitting at a young girl was justified.

~

 

... they are a changing ...

~

 

[00.02:38]

 

~

[RoofGardener]

4 hours ago, Phaeton80 said:

;-) Yeah thats right, everything that doesnt fit the Zionist narrative - where the state of Israel is the everlasting victim, no matter how agressively and amorally she behaves - is either Palestinian or UN propaganda, isnt it.

Oh what a GREAT debating technique. Any criticism of YOUR "narrative", no matter how reasoned (or otherwise), is dismissed as a Zionist victim narrative ? The PLO pumps out propaganda, but it cannot be challenged because that's just Fascist Racist Zionism ? What a WONDERFUL way of looking at things. And of course, it makes it SO much easier to "debate" anyone you disagree with, because you can just slander them with a stock 'label'. 

Israel has Arab members of parliament. (quite a lot of them). Recently, an Arab supreme court judge sentenced a former Jewish Prime Minister to a jail sentence. There are Arab heads of university departments, senior surgeons, and Arabs are allowed the same freedom of movement as Jews are. There are no 'seperate' facilities; Arabs drink from the same water fountains as Jews and - as a result - will visit the same public conveniences. 

How does THAT compare to South Africa under white rule ? (the actual definition of Apartheid).

4 hours ago, Phaeton80 said:

The Complete Censored ESCWA Report: “Israel Practices towards the Palestinian People and the Question of Apartheid”

"Censorship is applied by the UN body on the explicit instructions of the US government, which alongside Israel is responsible for extensive war crimes against the people of the Middle East. U.S. ambassador Nikki Haley accuses the UN of propagating anti-Israeli propaganda pointing to Prof. Richard Falk as a conspiracy theorist."

 

ROFL... you're citing ESCWA ? Are you aware of what they are ? A League of 18 Arab states. And GOSH.. they conclude that Israel is apartheid ? What an ASTONISHING and unexpected conclusion. You ARE aware that some of those countries do not recognise Israel as a state ? And that ONE of them is still - nominally - in a unilateral state of war against Israel ? And ONE of them is.... guess who... "Palestine" ? And another one is Saudi Arabia... try being a Christian in Saudi Arabia, and then you will feel the jackboot of Apartheid. As for Richard Falk, he has been long revealed as a pro-palestinian and anti-Israeli, and proven willing to distort information in order to support one over the other. 

Whilst ESCWA is a UN organisation, this report was unauthorised by the UN, and - indeed- was repudiated by them ? It wasn't "censored", it was just rejected as being uncorroborated political propaganda. 

So then, in your OWN words.... how do you justify describing Israel as an Apartheid state ? 

[Van Gorp]

On 4-1-2018 at 4:02 PM, RoofGardener said:

As for the Israeli state being "apartheid", that is Palestinian propaganda, and utterly rubbish. In the context of the Middle-East, Israel is not apartheid in any rational meaning of the term. 

It's even worse i read in an old article of the newspaper Haaretz.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-s-apartheid-is-worse-than-south-africa-s-1.4590

For the ISI'S who want a good discussion just for fun, not to settle: here is a starting point: have fun.

For all the rest: skip needless discussions and so also this one (it is a worn out tactic by now)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_and_the_apartheid_analogy

 

But enough talk, we want facts on the ground! No negotations by the unwilling. 

Palestine, Jerusalem and Israel all placed under receivership.  We will settle it for you.

Voila the solution, take it or leave it.

[Only_]

On 29/12/2017 at 5:24 AM, Emma_Acid said:

Well - we finally agree on something!

The guy is a total windbag. I am staggered that people cannot see through his BS. He lied and bought his way to the most powerful job in the world to prove that he could do it, and now he's there is reducing his own tax rate and using daft right wing policies to prop up his position. You think he gives a s*** about climate change, poverty or foreign policy? He's going the whole "American first" route and withdrawing from climate deals because he can't be bothered to engage with them. He wants to make being the president as simple as possible, and come out of it as rich as he can on the other end. People will sill be sleep on Skid Row when he leaves the presidency, and American industry will not be any better off either.

To be fair, people where stuck between a rock and a hard place when choosing between Hilary Clinton or Donald Trump.

Edited January 12, 2018 by TruthSeeker_

[Hawken]

On ‎12‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 5:08 PM, CrimsonKing said:

One can't be 100% sure,but i'd bet good money Gary Johnson probably doesn't 

 

[Mr.United_Nations]

On 12/24/2017 at 5:05 AM, Clockwork_Spirit said:

Well, he didn't seem to care when dropping that Big Mother Bomb in the afghan desert.

That was planned under the Obama years, Trump allowed it but it was the generals who allowed it