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markdohle

God and the Afterlife

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markdohle

 

 


God and the Afterlife
By Jeffrey Long, M.D.
with Paul Perry

In the early 70’s, I went with a few community members, to a talk given by Kubler Ross on the Near-Death-Experience (NDE).  Even though it was 45 years ago, I can still remember the talk clearly.  In the audience was also a young man, named Raymond Moody, whose book was soon to be released.  He stood up in the audience when Kubler Ross asked him to present himself.  From the point on I have been an avid student of this phenomena. 

Jeffery Long started the Near Death Experience Research Foundation (NDERF).  His website has been in existence since 1998 (
WWW.nderf.org) and one of the best sites on the web that deal with this subject.  He brings to light for the general audience how important this experience is, that has in fact been something that millions of people, still alive, have experienced.  He also has a questionnaire that people who have had an NDE can fill out and their stories may be shared on his site. 

There are those who of course are very skeptical about NDE’s, and that is good.  They can raise objections to these phenomena and those who write about the validity of the NDE, need to answer.   From what I have read, all objections have been dealt with, though of course, not to the liking of everyone. 

As a man of the 21st century, even though I have faith in God and take that seriously, I believe that most who live in this time period of human history, do have some real difficulty in believing that death is not final.  Yet, for many, faith also persist, in spite of doubts.  It can cause a very creative inner tension that can lead to an intense search for the truth about this phenomena. 

I do know that once an individual has a powerful, life-changing, NDE, they can never go back to what was before.  I cannot imagine what it would be for me to have an NDE, to experience another reality that is more real than the one I live in daily and pretend that life will go on as usual.  PM Atwater deals with the struggles that many go through after they return to this ‘world of boxes’, as Jung stated after he returned from an NDE. 

In the book, “God and the Afterlife”, what comes to the fore is the experience of God’s Infinite Love for each of us.  However, that does not mean that we must not take responsibility for our lives and the ‘life review’ that many go through, perhaps we all go through, brings that out fully.  In other words, we must experience all the joy and pain that we have put others through as if we did it to ourselves.  Not sure that is really good news, at least as far as the pain and shame that will be present for such an experience.  Yet it is done in the presence of unconditional love, but a love that demands that we grow in love, which is our true nature.  Anything else leads to pain, suffering, and still, for some perhaps, a spiritual death that is eternal.  There are hellish NDE.  

If a man or woman of faith has a profound experience of God’s love that is not an actual NDE, it brings profound modifications in their lives.  So if one ‘dies’,  and then experiences the reality that we don’t ‘die’, one can only imagine what changes that will bring.  It can be a very painful process for families, friends and religious believers have to deal with this.  Some marriages end, some NDE experiencers have trouble relating in concepts and language that they were once comfortable with but now seems inadequate.

If a man or a woman has an experience of the importance of love in one’s life, that all else is secondary, how can that be lived out in such a way that others will understand?  We are all used to the paradoxical nature of faith, yet when a man or a woman actually experiences the importance of love in this life, the reversal of values can be startling for those who know them.  They can come across as someone who has lost mental balance and all common sense. 

The book “God and the Afterlife” points to the reality that the NDE experience can actually be a way that God is trying to reach modern men and women in such a way that they will be forced to rethink their beliefs about the nature of reality and the deep mystery of what we call ‘God’.  If we actually live in a universe devoid of all Spiritual realities, how is it possible to even have such experiences?  OBE’s for instance that come back with veridical evidence? 

When the heart stops beating and blood to the brain ceases, consciousness would be impossible, yet it happens.  This alone should point to the reality that something else is at play here.  At death, we experience leaving the body, for many, going down a tunnel and then the profound experience of the ‘Light”, infinite and loving.  Then the ‘life review’, which goes over every aspect of one’s life, how one treated others, loved them or not, and live out all the pain and joy that the experiencer caused others.  What is the point, how did it evolve, and if it did, how is it helpful for our survival as a species?  The NDE opens up many questions for those who take the time to study this profound and increasingly common, experience of those who come near death and come back. 

I would recommend this book to anyone interested in the Near-Death-Experience. 

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Thomas_XL

this is a very good book, I strongly reccoment this to everybody!

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markdohle
1 hour ago, Thomas Van Overloop said:

this is a very good book, I strongly reccoment this to everybody!

Yes, one of the best commentators on this subject. 

 

Peace
Mark

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Thomas_XL

Also a very good book is from the author Eben Alexander: Proof of heaven, a neurosurgeon's journey in the afterlife, It opened up a whole new way of thinking for me!

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and then

I bought the book after seeing these recommendations.  It's a very interesting topic and I enjoy the related experiences but I find that some of them seem to stray into "new age" (for lack of a better adjective) doctrines.  It seems to posit that we are all Divine and that mercy and forgiveness are total, with no mention of repentance.  When any deviation from a central tenet of Christ's teaching occurs, I tend to become skeptical.  I believe that these events (NDE's) are honestly relayed to us but I wonder about the source of them at times.

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GlitterRose
On 12/30/2017 at 3:42 PM, and then said:

I bought the book after seeing these recommendations.  It's a very interesting topic and I enjoy the related experiences but I find that some of them seem to stray into "new age" (for lack of a better adjective) doctrines.  It seems to posit that we are all Divine and that mercy and forgiveness are total, with no mention of repentance.  When any deviation from a central tenet of Christ's teaching occurs, I tend to become skeptical.  I believe that these events (NDE's) are honestly relayed to us but I wonder about the source of them at times.

I felt there was mention of repentance even in what was just posted here.

Having to experience all the pain you've ever caused is nothing to sniff at. Even if it's just emotional pain. 

It's always kind of been what I thought would happen. In order to move on to some higher spiritual level, wouldn't we need to understand any suffering we might have caused?

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and then

Some of the NDEs mention a kind of repentance but several didn't.  It was those which I was thinking of.  The overall theme seemed to be that forgiveness and love were total and all-encompassing.  That would be wonderful and I'm all for it to be true but that isn't what the Bible relates.  One has to recognize and ask forgiveness for the wrongs we've done.  Some of those stories seem to ignore this and still give forgiveness and acceptance to everyone.  I believe that experiencing all the pain our actions have caused to others would be a kind of hell in itself.  I think most people would be really shocked to know just how our actions have been received by others, whether we intended to hurt them or not. 

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GlitterRose
Just now, and then said:

Some of the NDEs mention a kind of repentance but several didn't.  It was those which I was thinking of.  The overall theme seemed to be that forgiveness and love were total and all-encompassing.  That would be wonderful and I'm all for it to be true but that isn't what the Bible relates.  One has to recognize and ask forgiveness for the wrongs we've done.  Some of those stories seem to ignore this and still give forgiveness and acceptance to everyone.  I believe that experiencing all the pain our actions have caused to others would be a kind of hell in itself.  I think most people would be really shocked to know just how our actions have been received by others, whether we intended to hurt them or not. 

Yeah, dogmatic people are gonna have a problem with NDEs not lining up with their dogma. 

I can see that happening. 

That said, the idea of universal salvation isn't new age. 

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and then

Yes, "dogmatic" people will have a tendency to defend the faith they carry but think of the alternative.  With universal salvation, we would all be sharing the next existence with human beings that did not have to learn that their morality didn't line up with the vast numbers of their fellows.  Hitler comes to mind.  Those who prey on defenseless children do also.  The price of forgiveness is not unattainable for anyone, CR.  We only have to recognize and admit that we were wrong and acknowledge our Creator's gift to us.  To put it into layman's terminology, imagine realizing that an offer of winning a fantastic lottery was real and all one needed to do was accept it.  Imagine the feeling when you see all those who DID believe and you're standing there with nothing... all because you simply chose not to accept the free offer.  That's a heavy load to carry throughout an endless time.

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GlitterRose
17 minutes ago, and then said:

Yes, "dogmatic" people will have a tendency to defend the faith they carry but think of the alternative.  With universal salvation, we would all be sharing the next existence with human beings that did not have to learn that their morality didn't line up with the vast numbers of their fellows.  Hitler comes to mind.  Those who prey on defenseless children do also.  The price of forgiveness is not unattainable for anyone, CR.  We only have to recognize and admit that we were wrong and acknowledge our Creator's gift to us.  To put it into layman's terminology, imagine realizing that an offer of winning a fantastic lottery was real and all one needed to do was accept it.  Imagine the feeling when you see all those who DID believe and you're standing there with nothing... all because you simply chose not to accept the free offer.  That's a heavy load to carry throughout an endless time.

How do you know they wouldn't have to learn that?

Wouldn't that be the whole point of them having to experience all the pain they caused?

Hitler would probably be stuck in that situation for a loooooooong, long time.

And as you said before, it would be a sort of Hell. 

Edited by ChaosRose
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GlitterRose

There are some people who think that particular souls are just so far gone that they're not redeemable. 

Those souls would just cease to exist. Death would be death.

I've heard people share this belief. 

I think it's just way more open to the idea of salvation for most, with only the absolute worst being unredeemable. 

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GlitterRose

I like to think that everyone would be redeemable.

There are lots of reasons people turn out the way they do. 

We might not understand them, but God would. 

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and then
On 1/1/2018 at 11:21 AM, ChaosRose said:

I like to think that everyone would be redeemable.

There are lots of reasons people turn out the way they do. 

We might not understand them, but God would. 

I agree that we don't understand why some people seem so far gone and why they behave as they do but the message appears to be that regardless a person's behavior, they WILL be allowed to continue in an afterlife.  IF that is the meaning that is being advanced by universal salvation then it goes against the concept of justice and righteousness.  IF OTOH, there is some accountability for the behaviors and a repentance (change of behavior) then that isn't really the same as salvation for everyone regardless their acts.

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GlitterRose
1 minute ago, and then said:

I agree that we don't understand why some people seem so far gone and why they behave as they do but the message appears to be that regardless a person's behavior, they WILL be allowed to continue in an afterlife.  IF that is the meaning that is being advanced by universal salvation then it goes against the concept of justice and righteousness.  IF OTOH, there is some accountability for the behaviors and a repentance (change of behavior) then that isn't really the same as salvation for everyone regardless their acts.

I agree. Those things are not the same. 

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Truthseeker007
On ‎1‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 8:13 PM, ChaosRose said:

There are some people who think that particular souls are just so far gone that they're not redeemable. 

Those souls would just cease to exist. Death would be death.

I've heard people share this belief. 

I think it's just way more open to the idea of salvation for most, with only the absolute worst being unredeemable. 

I think there may be a balance. For example say you kill somebody in one life to balance this act out you will be killed in another. Are say you are part of an invading army in one life you will be part of the entities that were invaded in another. And one last example say you were a black person in one life then you may be a white person in another. Of coarse an infinite amount of examples but I think you get what I mean.

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