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Fila

Would an ETV be able to visit Earth secretly?

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Fila
Posted (edited)

Assuming an advanced ET race managed to send an vehicle to our planet.., would it be able to enter Earth's atmosphere without alerting everybody? Or do we humans have the skies monitored so well, this would be impossible.

Edited by Fila
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third_eye

As long as they can manage to evade those that are schizophrenic or slightly intoxicated, drunk or high on narcotics ... they can just slip in and out with nary an Oops ...

~

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Fila
Posted (edited)
On 01/01/2018 at 7:39 PM, third_eye said:

As long as they can manage to evade those that are schizophrenic or slightly intoxicated, drunk or high on narcotics ... they can just slip in and out with nary an Oops ...

I don't know of any studies that have shown people to hallucinate aliens while slightly intoxicated or drunk, but am open to ne evidence being presented. Do you have a source for these studies?

As for being on drugs.., I think we would need to be more specific as the term "drugs" covers everything from cocaine to viagra (and alcohol). Then we can look at high profile cases where this may be the issue. I think its very important to look into this, but I can only find inconclusive evidence of Alien abductions. I hope to hear back from you soon.

"It is concluded that there is currently no convincing evidence for higher rates of serious psychopathology amongst abductees compared to the general population. Although the neurosciences provide many clues to the nature of this bizarre experience, further research is required before a full understanding will be attained."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16571535

Edited by Fila

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DebDandelion
1 hour ago, Fila said:

Assuming an advanced ET race managed to send an vehicle to our planet.., would it be able to enter Earth's atmosphere without alerting everybody? Or do we humans have the skies monitored so well, this would be impossible.

If we are humans can manipulate  video / photo/audio does it not stand to reason that alien life will be able to do the same?

U r assuming that they will need spacecraft...what if they can bend time and space and create portals? Would be more efficient if you ask me.

Could the  vehicle not be disguised aS space rubble or meteorites?- perhaps they have /are visiting us  but we don't know what to look for because we are focussing on what we think the craft should look like....

That is just my two cents...

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XenoFish

It would crash into earth and start harvesting resources. Organic material to feed it's crew and natural resources to rebuild/power itself before cracking the earth.

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seeder

well lets look at a few facts first shall we?  Recently an asteroid was observed/detected entering our solar system... having come from deep outer space.....it was then tracked as it orbited the Sun and left again

next we have all manner of satellites that observe earth and space...there are many that circle the earth 24/7....365 days a year....incl the Space Station, and the satellites are also tracked from earth...this is just one reason of course even the weather programs show us satellite maps of the weather over our countries..

Then, all of the 'stronger' more wealthier countries with a strong military, naturally observe and monitor their own air spaces due to the possibility of surprise attacks, enemy aircraft etc.. So.... in one sense....its the job of the military to monitor the skies to ensure there are no enemy aircraft coming in, or missiles for that matter....and they have early warning systems to detect such incursions into their airspace, which are typically automated so to avoid user errors...and thats for National Security...where the BIG money is spent.   In the UK in recent years for example...we are frequently told in the news that Russian aircraft have been detected near our coasts, in or near...OUR AIRSPACE.... so we send up jets to escort them away etc...

Every country with a commercial airport monitors the skies and flight paths of its planes too, heres an image showing flight paths, you will see its over literally the whole world.... air space and flight paths are monitored for obvious reasons of being sure there are NO obstacles to those flights, and dont forget, those commercial aircraft also use their radars in flight to ensure there is 'nothing in the way' of that flight too

openflights-routedb-2048.png

source:   https://openflights.org/data.html

Then we have thousands and thousands of amateur and pro telescope users, with modern scopes, who's passion and hobby it is, to observe the space around us

Then we have BILLIONS of regular people who will notice stuff in the skies...hence the millions of amateur UFO vids on places like youtube

So the easy answer is....we have our skies pretty much well covered and monitored, 24-7

However, to add a sense of balance, a meteor approx 20 meter in size flew in over Chelyabinsk in Russia, that pretty much nobody saw coming, apparently it wasnt seen as it come in the daylight

Quote

 

Even if we had been looking at the right spot and the right time, there is another problem — the meteoroid would be in the daylit sky, and telescopes cannot see faint objects in the daytime.

Simply put, the meteoroid was too small for the survey telescopes and came at us out of the Sun.
https://blogs.nasa.gov/Watch_the_Skies/2013/02/19/post_1361308690869/


 

 

 

And then of course.... WE...ie:  advanced countries.... are able to make aircraft that are invisible to radar....known as Stealth planes.... that can fly over countries 'barely' detected...if at all...

However....technology increases, and now we CAN detect craft invisible to some radar

 

Quote

 

The end of stealth? New Chinese radar capable of detecting ‘invisible’ targets 100km away
https://www.cnbc.com/2016/09/21/the-end-of-stealth-new-chinese-radar-capable-of-detecting-invisible-targets-100km-away.html

and

America's Defence Advanced Research Projects Agency has reportedly funded similar research and military suppliers such as Lockheed Martin are also developing quantum radar systems for combat purposes, according to media reports, but the progress of those military projects remains unknown.
https://www.cnbc.com/2016/09/21/the-end-of-stealth-new-chinese-radar-capable-of-detecting-invisible-targets-100km-away.html


 

 

In MY opinion, and to back that up with the recent 'alien object' that entered our solar system....we are doing all we can to KNOW whats around us both in  space and in our atmospheres.....

The BIG question as always....is  IF aliens choose to come here.....why would they want to keep that secret?

 

 

 

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RabidMongoose
3 hours ago, Fila said:

Assuming an advanced ET race managed to send an vehicle to our planet.., would it be able to enter Earth's atmosphere without alerting everybody? Or do we humans have the skies monitored so well, this would be impossible.

Assuming that they would want real time information (to prevent asteroid impacts, Armageddon, and to secure their live entertainment) what makes you think we arent all bugged? Until we are down to the plank scale we shouldn't assume that they lack awareness about what we are all to in real time.

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freetoroam
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Fila said:

Assuming an advanced ET race managed to send an vehicle to our planet.., would it be able to enter Earth's atmosphere without alerting everybody? Or do we humans have the skies monitored so well, this would be impossible.

It is not a case of humans monitoring the skies....that is something which is happening today because there are thousands of astronomers and space agencies around the world who have the technology and equipment to do this...in our day and age. The issue is could an alien craft enter our atmosphere without burning up after travelling millions of miles through space or assuming they have the same atmoshpere as we do, they are also protected with silica tiles or their equivallant.

Being spotted by humans is the least of their problems and i really believe ( going right into sci fi ) mode, that if there were an  intelligent alien race able to travel through the universe (something a human can not do) then they would have the technology to view our planet before reaching us (something humans can do with our planets in our solar system) and they attempt contact before reaching us. 

Remember something to reach us from another world would have to have done years (likely hundreds if not thousabds) of travelling and testing of their own spacecrafts....none have been spotted around our solar system, and why would they want to scan the universe secretly? Surely contact would be their aim? 

I  really assume an alien race exploring the Universe would (obviously) be of a high intelligence.....this does not mean they are also out to destroy us or out for war, their reasons could be exactly the same as ours....to explore and make contact.

 

Edited by freetoroam
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Lilly
2 hours ago, Saru said:

Given that, for the sake of argument, we're talking about a civilization that is thousands of years more advanced than we are, then yes, I imagine that's possible. Really it's just a question of whether a technology could ever exist that is capable of evading our current detection technology.

I see no reason why it couldn't.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." Arthur C Clarke

If there are any ETs sufficiently advanced...if they manage to find our little solar system...if they decide it's worth giving us look...if we aren't too far out of their way to bother...

Basically, a great deal of  "ifs" but certainly not outside of the realm of possible.

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Saru
1 hour ago, seeder said:

The BIG question as always....is  IF aliens choose to come here.....why would they want to keep that secret?

If we had the ability to visit and observe developing civilizations on other planets, I daresay we would want to avoid announcing ourselves.

There is nothing to be gained from doing so and it has the potential to cause irreparable damage to a civilization's natural development.

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godnodog

It all depends on stealth capabilities, I dont see why not

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seeder
43 minutes ago, Saru said:

If we had the ability to visit and observe developing civilizations on other planets, I daresay we would want to avoid announcing ourselves.

There is nothing to be gained from doing so and it has the potential to cause irreparable damage to a civilization's natural development.

 

But thats the old classic/chestnut excuse as to WHY we never see them in the flesh isnt it?   Somehow they might corrupt us. And as Ive said before...thats the view of us earthpeople.....its like the ultimate 'get out clause' for the believers....."Oh aliens are real alright...but revealing themselves to us would cause....X-Y-Z of issues"

As I said on another thread, we cannot apply our logic...to theirs...again like I said before...a shark in the sea, a Lion in the forest...a bear in the woods....doesnt ever think that theres any reason not to attack and eat a man.....and why would they?  We are seen as dinner....not the ultimate species on the planet that needs to be studied... the animals motivation is self protection and feeding its hunger...and they are Earth species of course.

If aliens existed, and IF they came here....well....providing they didnt give us super advanced tech.... what the heck will they have changed? Our opinions?  Our knowledge that we are not alone?

Thats hardly detrimental to us is it? We make great leaps of knowledge each and every year....we constantly discover new species of life right here on earth....so why will KNOWING that we are not alone....really change anything?  Apart from school books?
Religions, like they always do, will find a way around it.....astrophysicists will say..."well we always thought it was possible"...and the People... bought up on sci fi movies who ALREADY believe in aliens, as demonstrated on forums like this.....will just be glad that they 'were right' and the sceptics were wrong..

and as Ive said over and over.... when Clinton announced to the world, that we may have found alien microbes in a space rock..... NOTHING changed.... people carried on with their day to day lives....the world still turned... and a majority simply didnt care one way or another...

 

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Saru
Quote

But thats the old classic/chestnut excuse as to WHY we never see them in the flesh isnt it?

Not an excuse. It's impossible to say one way or the other whether anyone is visiting us.

If aliens existed, and IF they came here....well....providing they didnt give us super advanced tech.... what the heck will they have changed? Our opinions?  Our knowledge that we are not alone?

If that were to actually happen today, for instance, I'd imagine it would fundamentally alter our perceptions and our place in the universe. It would have massive repercussions for our society, our politics, our religions and our philosophies - who knows how it might impact our civilization in the long run.

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XenoFish

Why not send a space probe that's bore into the core of a meteor or asteroid? It would be undetected. We'd see the shell that protects the craft. It could even be a small one. Its something to think about. We've got a probe piggy backing one right now.

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South Alabam
Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Fila said:

Assuming an advanced ET race managed to send an vehicle to our planet.., would it be able to enter Earth's atmosphere without alerting everybody? Or do we humans have the skies monitored so well, this would be impossible.

Knowing we have stealth aircraft that can evade radar, it doesn't seem impossible to me that an ETV would have any problem evading radar seeing their technology would greatly exceed ours. Not to mention they might have light absorbing technology on the hull of the vehicles to stop them from glowing, and thus being seen in outer space.

Edited by South Alabam
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XenoFish
12 minutes ago, South Alabam said:

Knowing we have stealth aircraft that can evade radar, it doesn't seem impossible to me that an ETV would have any problem evading radar seeing their technology would greatly exceed ours. Not to mention they might have light absorbing technology on the hull of the vehicles to stop them from glowing, and thus being seen in outer space.

This brings up an interesting question. If they think they're alone in the universe. Why would they bother with stealth technology?

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Dejarma
5 hours ago, Fila said:

Although the neurosciences provide many clues to the nature of this bizarre experience, further research is required before a full understanding will be attained.

yeah good luck with that:sleepy:

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South Alabam
18 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

This brings up an interesting question. If they think they're alone in the universe. Why would they bother with stealth technology?

That would assume they think they are alone, and not coming to a planet they know is inhabited. Look at Hubble. It is realty primitive compared to what a few more centuries could bring in peering into space. Rather than listening for radio waves for signs of life, with a powerful enough telescope you could actually see signs of life, then set your destination to observe with the ETV. If I was an advanced race coming to observe, I would want to be stealthy or cloaked, because if captured, with the technology you have, you could say goodbye to ever going home.

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seeder
53 minutes ago, Saru said:

Not an excuse. It's impossible to say one way or the other whether anyone is visiting us.

If that were to actually happen today, for instance, I'd imagine it would fundamentally alter our perceptions and our place in the universe. It would have massive repercussions for our society, our politics, our religions and our philosophies - who knows how it might impact our civilization in the long run.

 

I dont think it will alter our perceptions much...unless we are are in danger...what perception can it change?  That the God story is fantasy?  Many think that already.....especially when we have the evolutionary record. There are many believers in aliens here , and millions more in the world too...... how have their perceptions altered?  How have their ;lives changed?  Even those who claim first hand experience via abduction....what really changed for them?, except 5 mins of fame?   Are they all having major anxiety and sleep problems? Wanting to go dig in a cave with stock piles of foods and candles...so they can hide themselves?   NO!  The only thing believers will get out of proof...is that they can come here and prove the sceptics wrong. Tomorrow they will still have to have a shave and go to work...or school or whatever... still have to pay their bills, and eat....and worry about their appearance..and getting older...all the normal human things.  Our place in the Universe remains the same... 3rd rock from the Sun....in a small solar system.....similar to countless others...

I have for years quietly accepted that alien life MUST exist.....how can we be the ONLY life in a universe chock full of stars and planets similar to our own?.. a universe thats so mind numbingly huge that we cant even comprehend it, as smart as we are? water isnt rare in the universe, or even in our own solar system...and its a key building block of life... and life... like Moss on a barren rock high up on a freezing mountain....always finds a way. Or like the shrimp type critters that live in BOILING hydrothermal vents deep in the sea... yet dont become boiled as they have adapted to it... how could you even cook a shrimp that lives happily in boiling water?  :lol:

But they DO exist....

Yes life is a strange thing... persistent and adaptable.... and perhaps inevitable.... I will NEVER deviate from that belief...

But to come here in flying saucers, have big eyes and be grey or green and only communicate via telepathy....while sticking a probe where the sun dont shine.....is the realm of scifi writers.... in my own opinion of course

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Saru
22 minutes ago, seeder said:

Tomorrow they will still have to have a shave and go to work...or school or whatever... still have to pay their bills, and eat....and worry about their appearance..and getting older...all the normal human things.  Our place in the Universe remains the same... 3rd rock from the Sun....in a small solar system.....similar to countless others...

I was talking about societal, political and philosophical changes over a long period of time.

22 minutes ago, seeder said:

But to come here in flying saucers, have big eyes and be grey or green and only communicate via telepathy....while sticking a probe where the sun dont shine.....is the realm of scifi writers.... in my own opinion of course

Agreed, these stereotypical depictions of alien visitors have been the products of science fiction movies and TV shows for decades.

It's the reason these ideas have become so firmly rooted in popular culture.

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ChaosRose
7 hours ago, third_eye said:

As long as they can manage to evade those that are schizophrenic or slightly intoxicated, drunk or high on narcotics ... they can just slip in and out with nary an Oops ...

~

Ok...that was funny. 

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simplybill
7 hours ago, DebDandelion said:

 

U r assuming that they will need spacecraft...what if they can bend time and space and create portals? Would be more efficient if you ask me.

Yes, a spacecraft would require enormous amounts of energy, as well as equipment to generate the energy. 

Perhaps Black Holes are failed attempts at creating portals. Not likely, of course, but fun to think about!

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seeder
24 minutes ago, Saru said:

I was talking about societal, political and philosophical changes over a long period of time.

Agreed, these stereotypical depictions of alien visitors have been the products of science fiction movies and TV shows for decades.

It's the reason these ideas have become so firmly rooted in popular culture.

 

I agree with much you say. And how it will affect us....long term.... depends I spose on the amount of, or type of,  contact..  if the aliens stop by, say hello, in a friendly manner...spend some time learning of our history, sciences and biology and approach to healing... while we learn of theirs.....well that will serve to increase our knowledge for sure....and perhaps help in dealing with all the maladies that affect the human race... in that scenario then....perhaps the people will LOVE the aliens and be ever thankful. Id love anyone, no matter if they were green or grey....who could have stopped my mum from leaving this life.

Im not entirely sure about politics changing much....politics is more about managing a country and its economy and law.... I dont think that could change so much.... unless as said....we were under threat. WE need the economy managed, we need law....we need the justice system

Again with society....if the aliens landed tomorrow and it was well broadcast to all countries on earth...well...sure there would be absolute shock....fascination...  days of work taken off with folk fearing for their existence.... while others will be dancing in the streets...celebrating...

If there was benevolent contact.....itd make us stronger.... and perhaps even if....we'd abandon our religions....  is that so bad?  The wars fought for religious beliefs would perhaps be gone forever. To acquire new beliefs and knowledge that replace the old?   Like when nobody thought the 4 minute mile could be run? Till it WAS done?  And has been done ever since Bannister did it?  Like man could never reach the moon, until we did it?  Like a child who learns, there is no fat jolly man dressed in red who brings us gifts every year....but it was in fact....our own loving parents.....who tried to make gift giving just that little bit extra special, so that we'd appreciate the magic of love and giving..... just a little bit more?

Heck....benevolent and positive contact....BRING IT ON!!  

A caterpillar may fear the day of its death....but its not really the caterpillars death.....its the birth of a butterfly...

 

 

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keithisco

I think too many people believe that "We" as a species constantly monitor our atmosphere and near space with a fidelity that captures everything in motion. This is a fallacy, an over-presumption of capability. Terrestrially there are many instances of loss-of-contact with aircraft, mostly due to Beacon malfunctions, but that is because there is not earth-wide RADAR coverage and most detection is based on the aircraft beacon acting as the active component. With the beacon switched off it becomes "invisible" once it leaves a controlled flightpath.

So yes, an ET craft could easily avoid detection through the application of one or more passive-evasive actions or by active negation through stealth means. 

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