Would an ETV be able to visit Earth secretly?

[stereologist]

These discussions continue to be based on ground based observations. I suspect that space based systems watching the Earth are able to detect objects entering the atmosphere. This would be part of the ICBM detection system. Tracking of launches is possible and I suspect reentry is also possible.

[godnodog]

Anyone who "sees" their life shattered by a sudden visitation/contact (obviously I am referring to a peaceful encounter, not a violent scenario) is living in a bubble, it matters not their opinion on things, the universe couldn't care less about opinions, I always say (whether I or you or anyone else) at the end of the day physics (or reality or the universe) kicks you in the ass.

[Trelane]

When considering the OP I have a few questions. What possible effects of something moving this fast (presumably FTL) could be observable? When the craft slows down, how, by what means? What effects of a possible rapid slowdown could be observable?

I personally think that if there is a civilization so advanced it can easily traverse the galaxy or universe, it is not unreasonable to think it might posses some sort of technology that could render it undetectable by means available to us currently.

[Vorg]

The Earth has never been without cloud cover world wide as far as I know, so this would be great way to enter the atmosphere unseen, or come in over the oceans, away from ground observation and probably most radars.

Edited January 3, 2018 by South Alabam

[seeder]

7 hours ago, Fila said:

People like you and I may not see this as an issue. But we should consider others. My brother has the same view on every topic.., its whatever he thinks is best, and screw others opinions. His perspective is best.., so we should all so whatever he wants.

Thats not how it is here is it? Logical discussion has been put forward

And I believe this is what's wrong with the world in general. What if we all acted this way? It would be chaos.

Its always "us" versus "them".., when we should be able to be empathetic towards others emotions. Or at least.., tolerant and not angry or forceful of our agenda. Its why I treat religious people with courtesy. I feel sorry for them, and want to help. But yelling at them, or calling them idiots and laughing at their beliefs doesn't "help" them. No-one likes to be told they are wrong.., you get more defensive if anything.

Who is us?  JUST the believers?  Ive made it clear numerous times as a sceptic....that I believe in the possibility of alien life...as many others here do also....I just dont believe they visit in saucers and abduct people from time to time

If we are smarter than most people (as we all like to think) then we should be smart enough to approach the situation with consideration for others.

But, tbh. If I really think about it? If tomorrow aliens were visiting, and spaceships were flying around.., I would not be going to work that day. I would be too interested in new opportunities.., I wanna see them, ask questions, and possibly question their intentions and asking why they get to traverse the world without borders.., while I am stuck in a crappy job. I would question my own life, and what I want to achieve.., and others would never trust them I'd assume. This may cause riots, demanding leaders to take action etc.

If aliens landed tomorrow....go to work...bills still need paying and you still need to eat..... assuming they land....the military would no doubt surround them and all people will be kept back...plus it will be in every newspaper... and no doubt the news and TV in general, would have better images than you could get by joining a crowd held back by the military

 

 

[Hawken]

When the US invented the Stealth aircraft F-117 and B2, we were able to evade detection from radar when the US got involved in conflicts like the Gulf War. We are more advanced in this technology then most countries. So I would say it's safe to say something more advance then us could evade detection.

[seeder]

9 minutes ago, Hawkin said:

When the US invented the Stealth aircraft F-117 and B2, we were able to evade detection from radar when the US got involved in conflicts like the Gulf War. We are more advanced in this technology then most countries. So I would say it's safe to say something more advance then us could evade detection.

 

The thing is....stealth craft can NOW be detected...

https://www.cnbc.com/2016/09/21/the-end-of-stealth-new-chinese-radar-capable-of-detecting-invisible-targets-100km-away.html

 

[Hawken]

4 minutes ago, seeder said:

 

The thing is....stealth craft can NOW be detected...

https://www.cnbc.com/2016/09/21/the-end-of-stealth-new-chinese-radar-capable-of-detecting-invisible-targets-100km-away.html

 

According to your link, the radar can only detect up to 100km. By the time it detects an incoming bomber. it would be too late. But I'm sure there will be advances in this new radar system which will have a farther range.

[seeder]

15 minutes ago, Hawkin said:

According to your link, the radar can only detect up to 100km. By the time it detects an incoming bomber. it would be too late. But I'm sure there will be advances in this new radar system which will have a farther range.

 

then there is this
 

Quote

 

Modern stealth aircraft boast of being able to avoid detection using a variety of stealth technologies that reduce reflection and emission of radar, infrared, visible light, radio frequency spectrum and audio. But stealth is not a cloak of invisibility, rather the technology simply delays detection and tracking providing a tactical advantage in aerial battles and enemy defence mechanisms.

Civilian Air Traffic Control radars are almost certainly able to detect and track tactical fighter-sized stealth aircraft because they operate at a lower-frequency band.

https://www.defenceaviation.com/2016/05/how-to-detect-stealth-aircraft.html

 

 

[seeder]

and this
 

Quote

 

It’s a misconception that stealth aircraft don’t appear on radar. Technically known as “Low Observable”, stealth aircraft are not invisible to radar. The difficulty comes in tracking the aircraft with weapons-level radar, not in seeing it on radar. I’ve seen primary returns on F-22s and F-117s. While it might seem weird, the B2 is harder to see on radar than the fighters, and there are reasons for that.

https://www.quora.com/How-do-air-traffic-controllers-control-stealth-aircraft-that-dont-appear-on-radar

 

 

[Hawken]

14 minutes ago, seeder said:

and this
 

 

Yes, it's not totally invisible to radar. Just hard to detect. The point I was making in my first comment was a nation or civilization that's more advanced can have technologies greater to perform a mission and be more successful .

[seeder]

Just now, Hawkin said:

Yes, it's not totally invisible to radar. Just hard to detect. The point I was making in my first comment was a nation or civilization that's more advanced can have technologies greater to perform a mission and be more successful .

 

that will be assuming they had any use for radar and avoidance strategies in the first place..... our use of radar was literally developed because of wars, tho it was known about before the great wars

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_radar

 

But again....even talking about aliens having stealth abilities....is applying HUMAN reasoning to it....  aliens from another world will not be thinking like man

 

 

[Fila]

On 04/01/2018 at 5:54 AM, seeder said:

that will be assuming they had any use for radar and avoidance strategies in the first place..... our use of radar was literally developed because of wars, tho it was known about before the great wars

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_radar

But again....even talking about aliens having stealth abilities....is applying HUMAN reasoning to it....  aliens from another world will not be thinking like man

Its okay to apply human reasoning to things, because we can back it up with examples. Otherwise the alternative is to "imagine" new ways they would think, which is more science fiction.., .but its still good to brainstorm new possibilities and come up with new ideas. As long as we don't shut the others person's down.

"Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination embraces the entire world, stimulating progress, giving birth to evolution." - Albert Einstein.

I would love to discuss completely new possible ways an ET would think.., but I don't believe I'm that creative / imaginative.

LIST OF REASONS WHY AN ET RACE WOULD VISIT EARTH SECRETLY (that humans have never done, ever.)

1) .....

2) .....

 

Here's some examples of others that believe potential alien life may think like us.

Why Would Aliens Want the Earth? https://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/CosmosNotes/WhyAliensWantEarth.HTM

If an incoming alien race has faster than light travel, teleportation, reactionless drives, direct conversion of matter to energy, anti-gravity, or other staple science fiction technologies, all bets are off. We have no idea what they'd be able to do because we have no idea how those technologies could even be possible, given our understanding of the laws of physics. And if you're about to pooh-pooh that as impossibly myopic, why not first prove you know anything about the laws of physics? Say, explain how Trojan orbits work, in detail, as in, do the math. Or explain how Maxwell's Equations lead to radio.

We can assume that any race capable of crossing interstellar space will be able to do anything we can do or even remotely contemplate doing.

 

Darwin's theory of eviloution means ET would be human-like. http://www.newsweek.com/aliens-could-be-just-us-darwins-theory-evolution-means-et-would-be-human-698450

Past astrobiologists have used chemistry, geology and physics that explain our planet to try and predict what life might be like on other planets, Levin explains. His team’s approach, however, is different. Evolutionary theory can be used to make predictions that aren’t biased by our own facts about Earth. 

We still can't say whether aliens will walk on two legs or have big green eyes,” said Levin. But, using evolutionary theory, they were able to assume that their forms adapted to be similar to us.

“Like humans, we predict that they are made up of a hierarchy of entities, which all cooperate to produce an alien,” he said. “At each level of the organism there will be mechanisms in place to eliminate conflict, maintain cooperation and keep the organism functioning.”

 

Communication with Alien Intelligence. https://web.media.mit.edu/~minsky/papers/AlienIntelligence.html

When first we meet those aliens in outer space, will we and they be able to converse? I'll try to show that, yes, we will–provided they are motivated to cooperate–because we'll both think similar ways. I'll propose two reasons why aliens will think like us, in spite of different origins. All problem-solvers, intelligent or not, are subject to the same ultimate constraints–limitations on space, time, and materials. In order for animals to evolve powerful ways to deal with such constraints, they must have ways to represent the situations they face, and they must have processes for manipulating those representations.

The "economics" argument is based on the fact that the power of a mind depends on how it manages available resources. 

The "sparseness" theory makes this thesis more precise. It holds that almost every evolutionary search for ideas will encounter certain common ideas. These are those peculiar concepts for which there are simply no easily accessible alternatives, that is, other very different ideas that can serve the same purposes. This is because, I'll argue, certain ideas are islands by itself, because there is nothing which resembles them that is not either identical or vastly more complicated. I will only discuss the example of arithmetic, but I suspect that there are other ideas about Objects, Causes and Goals that have the same character.

 

Understanding an alien intelligence: Generalizations from the crow. https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/173033-understanding-an-alien-intelligence-generalizations-from-the-crow

Nature just released another nugget from the public research engine that tackles the question of intelligence in a creature whose brain is also radically different from our own. Hence these kinds of studies all hint at a more universal question: would a general intelligence, either artificial, alien, or of our natural world, have features or behaviours we might predict.

This simple command of environment, including control of other species in it, appears to have transformative affects at the species level, which permeate down to the individual level. In looking at alien intelligences from individual anatomy alone, we would be hard-pressed then to draw major conclusions. However, with a larger understanding of where the species fits within its environment, we might be better equipped to measure it.

 

Octopus research shows that consciousness isn’t what makes humans special. https://qz.com/1045782/an-octopus-is-the-closest-thing-to-an-alien-here-on-earth/

Octopuses are the most complex animal with the most distant common ancestor to humans. This means that octopuses have very little in common with humans, evolution-wise. They have developed eyes, limbs, and brains via a completely separate route, with very different ancestors, from humans. And they seem to have come by their impressive cognitive functioning—and likely consciousness—by different means. A real alien would be a sentient being with no common ancestry with us at all, arising completely independently, 

There’s no clear way of evaluating consciousness in other animals (or in other humans, for that matter. But we can certainly make educated guesses. Broadly speaking, consciousness is often defined as there being an experience of what it’s like to be said creature. 

 

And just to wrap it up...

The Advice Brookings Gave NASA. https://www.brookings.edu/blog/brookings-now/2014/05/12/communications-technology-and-extraterrestrial-life-the-advice-brookings-gave-nasa-about-the-space-program-in-1960/

The report recommended continuing studies “to determine emotional and intellectual understanding and attitudes” regarding the possibility of intelligent extraterrestrial life” and studies to understand “the behavior of peoples and their leaders when confronted with dramatic and unfamiliar events or social pressures.” The latter aimed to determine how such information might be shared, or withheld, from the public.

Edited January 3, 2018 by Fila

[seeder]

10 minutes ago, Fila said:

Its okay to apply human reasoning to things, because we can back it up with examples.

 

Examples?  Give me one pls?
 

[Fila]

On 04/01/2018 at 1:01 AM, stereologist said:

These discussions continue to be based on ground based observations. I suspect that space based systems watching the Earth are able to detect objects entering the atmosphere. This would be part of the ICBM detection system. Tracking of launches is possible and I suspect reentry is also possible.

I trawled through many NASA documents detailing how they monitor NEOs. http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/topic/314527-would-an-etv-be-able-to-visit-earth-secretly/?do=findComment&comment=6322618

Here I mention how "observers find and track objects using NASA’s space-based NEOWISE infrared telescope and ground-based telescopes around the world".., but I have not actually covered the NEOWISE yet. Been trying to keep everything separate for ease of referencing. 

Take a look into it if you'd like. I'll be kinda busy today. However.., I'm sure you'll find it will most likely operate using the same imaging technique of connecting it to a computer, taking photos of deep space.., in small segments, corellated over days and weeks of data. Not LIVE feed of a wide view of space, being monitored by humans backed by motion tracking alarms looking for small objects like spaceships.

https://neowise.ipac.caltech.edu, https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/missions/neowise/, https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/WISE/mission/index.html, https://www.space.com/33659-wise-space-telescope.html

On 04/01/2018 at 2:13 AM, godnodog said:

Anyone who "sees" their life shattered by a sudden visitation/contact (obviously I am referring to a peaceful encounter, not a violent scenario) is living in a bubble, it matters not their opinion on things, the universe couldn't care less about opinions, I always say (whether I or you or anyone else) at the end of the day physics (or reality or the universe) kicks you in the ass.

Everyone's lives matter imo. Looking down on people less fortunate (mentally) is a horrible attribute to have.

For example some people were raised in religious families, and segregated from learning about others possibilities. Some grew up in poor families, subjected to abuse and a lack of education and malnutrition. (Which leads to learning difficulties later in life)

Basically.., it may take them a bit more time to be educated, learn and adapt to new things.

Imagine your first few years of school knowing nothing.., and the teacher just called you a moron all day, mocking you etc. Its not the way to learn,  teach or interact with each other.

Thinking we are better than others, and dismissing them as people is beyond words. I cannot express how much I hate people like this. Its a form of bullying.., but with very strange underlying emotional reasons attached.

Me and my mates used to "Fight Club" fight every recess and lunch. We got really good too (I was always the best imo). If we saw kids being bullied and bashed.., we'd bully the bullies back twice as hard until they got the message. The entire school changed after a couple of years doing this. Everyone was nice.., and bullies were not glamorised or feared but shunned as being "emotional and weak minded" so they had to pick on smaller than them. If they wanna fight someone, come fight me any day, any break.

However I must be patient and understanding of their issues also. These people just need help understanding I guess.., not anger.

On 04/01/2018 at 9:22 AM, seeder said:

Examples?  Give me one pls?

I provided several in the post you quoted. 2nd paragraph.

Edited January 3, 2018 by Fila

[stereologist]

4 hours ago, Fila said:

I trawled through many NASA documents detailing how they monitor NEOs. http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/topic/314527-would-an-etv-be-able-to-visit-earth-secretly/?do=findComment&comment=6322618

Here I mention how "observers find and track objects using NASA’s space-based NEOWISE infrared telescope and ground-based telescopes around the world".., but I have not actually covered the NEOWISE yet. Been trying to keep everything separate for ease of referencing. 

Take a look into it if you'd like. I'll be kinda busy today. However.., I'm sure you'll find it will most likely operate using the same imaging technique of connecting it to a computer, taking photos of deep space.., in small segments, corellated over days and weeks of data. Not LIVE feed of a wide view of space, being monitored by humans backed by motion tracking alarms looking for small objects like spaceships.

https://neowise.ipac.caltech.edu, https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/missions/neowise/, https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/WISE/mission/index.html, https://www.space.com/33659-wise-space-telescope.html

Just about irrelevant to what I posted.  I'd ask what you did not understand, but it seems to be everything.

Live feeds from astronomical satellites is irrelevant.

One particular observation platform is irrelevant.

Where are all of the other systems involved in NEO detection? Are NEO detectors the only instruments of interest?

 

[Fila]

On 04/01/2018 at 2:33 PM, stereologist said:

Just about irrelevant to what I posted.  I'd ask what you did not understand, but it seems to be everything.

My mistake. I totally overlooked this assumed we were discussing NEO detection.Many apologies.

I had a look through pretty much all the current ICBM programmes allied forces have, all of  which rely on ground based radar (PAC-3, Aegis, THAAD etc) to detect missiles. But for Intercontinental ballistic missiles, such as the one tested by North Korea, fly far too high and fast for these systems to engage with. This is where GBMD comes onto the scene. It mostly relies on various radar.., but I'll ignore them to discuss the 3 satellite programmes being used..

Ground Based Midcourse Defense. (GBMD)

The Ground-Based Midcourse Defense (GMD) program uses land-based missiles to intercept incoming ballistic missiles in the middle of their flight, outside the atmosphere. The well-known Patriot missiles provide what’s known as terminal-phase defense options, while longer-reach options like the land-based THAAD intercept missiles coming down. Even so, their sensors and flight ranges are best suited to defense against shorter range missiles launched from in-theater. GBMC uses ground-based radar, backed by 3 different satellite programmes. 

 

1) The Defense Support Program (DSP)

First launched in 1970 is a constellation of satellites in geosynchronous orbit (GEO) that used infrared sensor to detect heat from missile and booster plumes against the Earth's background.. The satellites include a spinning sensor with short- and mid-wave infrared radars that have a 10-second revisit rate, though they are not dynamically taskable. Each unit is estimated to cost around $400 million. Due to be superceded by the Space-based Infrared System. (See 3 below)

 

2) Space Tracking and Surveillance System (STSS)

A space-based system developed and operated by the Missile Defense Agency that detects and tracks ballistic missiles. This system is an experimental component of the U.S. Ballistic Missile Defense System (BMDS) and STSS serves as a complement to other U.S. space-based platforms.

The aim of the Space Tracking and Surveillance System is to track missiles through all three phases of flight (boost, midcourse, and terminal); discriminate between warheads and decoys; transmit data to other systems that will be used to cue radars and provide intercept handovers; and provide data for missile defense interceptors to hit their target.

The STSS constellation orbits at 1,350km with a 58-degree incline and has a two-hour orbital period. The sensors on the two satellites detect visible and infrared light. and has three main components: a wide-view acquisition sensor, a narrow-view tracking sensor, and a signal and data processor subsystem.

The wide-view acquisition sensor will detect missiles during their boost phase. (No ground view)

Once it reaches its midcourse phase, STSS follows its trajectory through space with a narrow-view tracker. While both the wide- and narrow-view sensors hone in on a missile, they send information to the system’s signal and data processor subsystem which is capable of sifting through some 2.1 gigabits of data per second. This subsystem can detect and track over 100 objects at a time and will be able to determine what objects in space are missiles or warheads

The goal of an operational STSS is to track missiles through all three phases; discriminate between warheads and decoys; transmit data to other systems

 

3) Space-based Infrared System (SBIRS)

This system is intended to replace the aging DSP system of satellites. SBIRS satellites are able to scan large swaths of territory to detect missile activity and can also hone in on areas of interest for lower-scale activities, including launches of tactical ballistic missiles. These sensors are independently tasked, meaning the satellite can both scan a wide territory and fixate on a particular area of concern simultaneously.

 The first satellite, SBIRS GEO-1, launched in May 2011 and was followed in March 2013 by the SBIRS GEO-2 satellite. July 2015, third satellite and fourth satellite first, on October 2016.

In addition to the dedicated satellites, the system also includes two missile warning sensors hosted on classified satellites in HEO that were launched in November 2006 (includes a scanning sensor composed of short- and mid-wave infrared radars that can see close to the ground) and  a fourth satellite in June 2008.

The constellation has a continuous view of all of the earth’s surface, which it images every 10 seconds while searching for infrared (IR) activity indicating heat signatures.5 SBIRS is able to detect missile launches faster than any other system and can identify the missile’s type, burnout velocity, trajectory, and point of impact

The system was initially designed to include satellites in low earth orbit. However, this program was incorporated into the STSS program in 2001 and handed over to the Missile Defense Agency (MDA) and is intended to replace the Defense Support Program (1 see above)

 

SBIRS GEO was deployed in 2011 and consists of both taskable and nontaskable sensors with both scanning and staring payloads with short- and mid-wave infrared radars. It is able to both have a hemispheric ground of view as well as see very close to the ground

 

SBIRS HEO, launched in 2006, was the first deployed asset. It is re-taskable and includes a scanning sensor composed of short- and mid-wave infrared radars that can see close to the ground.

 

As of 2015, the system’s current total program cost was almost $19B for six satellites. 

As of 2015, two of the four planned satellites are in orbit as well as three complementary scanning sensors on intelligence satellites in HEO

SBIRS is positioned so that it would be the first U.S. asset to detect a ballistic missile launch. Once it detects significant activity, that information is transmitted to Air Force Space Command in Colorado and subsequently to North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) and other relevant parts of the military who will decide whether the launch threatens the United States or its interests.

The science is in the growing set of algorithms used to manipulate data collected by the system. Work in the “battlespace awareness” mission for satellite IR data can take hours today.

The only image released for public use from the Sbirs system is this one

It captures the heat plume emitted by a Delta IV predawn launch. The plume is readily visible against the backdrop of Earth, which in the wee morning hours sees little heat and sunlight

 

SBIRS OPS CENTER

The ops center is a modern, wide space dotted with computer consoles. Personnel in an intelligence cell are of to the side. A space in the center will be occupied by each shift’s director

The gravity of the mission contrasts with the youth of its operators at Buckley, most of whom were born after the ending of the Cold War that drove development of the missile warning and defense architecture. The average Sbirs operator is about 20 years old and has about six months’ experience working the console. The ops fl oor is populated by a multinational presence, including British, Australian and Canadian military of cials. These operators work 12- hr. shifts, constantly monitoring computer screens. The Sbirs operators are divided into four areas aligned with its four missions: missile defense, missile warning, technical intelligence and battlespace awareness

 

Edited January 5, 2018 by Fila

[stereologist]

That is a good list of satellite systems that are watching the Earth for ICBM launches. They need to provide real time information 24/7 and there can be no delays.

The importance of eyes in space is that they watch the Earth in a relatively broad view.  There are also eyes in space that are non-military that provide information. It doesn't have to be real time if it provides a record more than occasional images.

[Erno86]

On ‎1‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 1:54 PM, seeder said:

 

 

 

But again....even talking about aliens having stealth abilities....is applying HUMAN reasoning to it....  aliens from another world will not be thinking like man

 

 

THAT statement...is a 'hasty generalization' if I ever saw one. Let's see if it would have any meaningful direct bearing, say, proclaiming it in front of the United Nations for example --- lol.

Edited January 5, 2018 by Erno86
added a word

[bison]

Camouflage is scarcely limited to humans. It is known to exist naturally in many species on Earth. It is present in both prey, to evade capture, and in predators, so as to not be seen before they seize their prey. It is woven into the fabric of life.

That the underlying concept behind camouflage should be understood by intelligent beings, whatever their origin, seems highly likely. There appears to be no reason why this concept would not be applied by them to artificial means of camouflage, wherever, and whenever the need presented itself.  

Edited January 5, 2018 by bison
improved paragraph structure, stylistic improvement, qualifier inseted

[seeder]

1 hour ago, Erno86 said:

THAT statement...is a 'hasty generalization' if I ever saw one. Let's see if it would have any meaningful direct bearing, say, proclaiming it in front of the United Nations for example --- lol.

 

so HOW will aliens think like man exactly?  Come on, tell me, tell us all.....

[seeder]

53 minutes ago, bison said:

Camouflage is scarcely limited to humans. It is known to exist naturally in many species on Earth. It is present in both prey, to evade capture, and in predators, so as to not be seen before they seize their prey. It is woven into the fabric of life.

That the underlying concept behind camouflage should be understood by intelligent beings, whatever their origin, seems highly likely. There appears to be no reason why this concept would not be applied by them to artificial means of camouflage, wherever, and whenever the need presented itself.  

 

so really what youre saying then, is all the millions of ufo photographs and videos found on the web.....ALL of them are 100% BS because aliens will be camouflaged and therefore we wouldnt see them, in order to take photos or video?   Well done....you have just single handedly debunked every pic and video of UFO;s...EVER!

[bison]

The supposition that camouflage was available does not mean that it was used at all times. Even an octopus can, and does turn his protective coloration on or off at will. I think that we can allow at least the same level of ability to intelligent extraterrestrials.

[CeresExpo2000]

On 1/1/2018 at 8:32 AM, godnodog said:

It all depends on stealth capabilities, I dont see why not

Not a problem.

[seeder]

36 minutes ago, bison said:

The supposition that camouflage was available does not mean that it was used at all times. Even an octopus can, and does turn his protective coloration on or off at will. I think that we can allow at least the same level of ability to intelligent extraterrestrials.

 

OH.....OK

So the OP is about can aliens slip in our atmosphere undetected, and you agree, they can...

But once in the skies they turn off the camo so we CAN see them?

That makes no sense....