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'Zoo theory' may explain lack of alien visitors

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bison

It's not clear how we could know that no extraterrestrial civilizations have advanced enough to reach Earth. Conditions appear to have been suitable in our galaxy, for life to have arisen a billion or more years before this occurred on Earth. Given a head start like that, and billions of planets on which life might attain intelligence, who can say what they might be capable of by now?

Even at velocities below that of light, civilizations could have spread gradually from star system to star system, and covered the entire galaxy as densely as they pleased, long before now. So concluded Dr, Enrico Fermi, over sixty years ago. Since then, increased scientific knowledge has made the prospects for life and intelligence in the galaxy look more and more promising. 

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Quaentum
22 hours ago, Essan said:

We are assuming firstly that aliens are able to do what for us is currently  impossble (or they live thousands of Earth years, with a different concept of time) to enable interstellar travel within a lifetime, and that of all  the billions and billions of planets they could visit they all coincidently come to this insignificant little rock at the precise moment in time when we exist.  

Mr Ockham has a shaving instrument ...... ;) 

We also assume that each alien race only visits the people/culture on earth they look most like. 

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Rlyeh

This Zoo theory doesn't explain why we haven't detected signals from life on other planets. 

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Quaentum
48 minutes ago, bison said:

It's not clear how we could know that no extraterrestrial civilizations have advanced enough to reach Earth. Conditions appear to have been suitable in our galaxy, for life to have arisen a billion or more years before this occurred on Earth. Given a head start like that, and billions of planets on which life might attain intelligence, who can say what they might be capable of by now?

Even at velocities below that of light, civilizations could have spread gradually from star system to star system, and covered the entire galaxy as densely as they pleased, long before now. So concluded Dr, Enrico Fermi, over sixty years ago. Since then, increased scientific knowledge has made the prospects for life and intelligence in the galaxy look more and more promising. 

I don't think it has to do with capability of an alien species but whether they actually have visited the Earth.

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keithisco

 

Quote

One explanation for this may lie in what is known as 'zoo theory' which was first put forward by MIT astronomer John A. Ball back in the 1970s.

...so is Johnny Ball trying to take the credit for a theory that has been the subject of many Science Fiction stories before then? Jeez, the cheek of the manB)

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Area201
13 hours ago, badeskov said:

It *is* an insignificant piece of rock to the best of our knowledge. 

Quote

So you're saying you are insignificant. Speak for yourself. 

 

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bison
57 minutes ago, Quaentum said:

I don't think it has to do with capability of an alien species but whether they actually have visited the Earth.

Territorial expansion is widespread among species on Earth, including our ancestors. It has obvious evolutionary advantages. It seems not unreasonable that this would hold true for many other forms of intelligent life in the galaxy. If star travel became possible for a species, this could simply be another means of expansion, on a wider scope.

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bison
1 hour ago, Rlyeh said:

This Zoo theory doesn't explain why we haven't detected signals from life on other planets. 

It could, actually, though other factors are presumably in play, too. The desire to not disturb our situation too seriously, too soon, or too suddenly with knowledge of their existence could cause extraterrestrials to avoid sending easily detectable signals our way.  If they still use radio routinely among themselves, it could easily be in a highly compressed, digitized and frequency dispersed form. This could look like noise to us, since we would lack the unique 'key' to decompress, and demodulate it.  

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bison
Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, Area201 said:

So you're saying you are insignificant. Speak for yourself. 

 

The human race, in its present situation, might not be lacking in interest for interstellar anthropologists.  We are undergoing a quite perilous transition from an agricultural civilization to a stable technical one. This presumably happens but once to most intelligent species, and with extreme rapidity, compared to our several million year history as a genus.

ET anthropologists might be interested to see if we will successfully negotiate the transition, and just how we will do it. Might even make an interesting story for an elder species as a whole, to follow:  'Will the terrestrials override their heedless, warrior past, and keep from destroying themselves by war or environmental destruction'?

 

Edited by bison
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Truthseeker007
25 minutes ago, bison said:

The human race, in its present situation, might not be lacking in interest for interstellar anthropologists.  We are undergoing a quite perilous transition from an agricultural civilization to a stable technical one. This presumably happens but once to most intelligent species, and with extreme rapidity, compared to our several million year history as a genus.

ET anthropologists might be interested to see if we will successfully negotiate the transition, and just how we will do it. Might even make an interesting story for an elder species as a whole, to follow:  'Will the terrestrials override their heedless, warrior past, and keep from destroying themselves by war or environmental destruction'?

 

I have heard we are the best show in the Universe right now.lol!

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stereologist

From the article

Quote

“Invoking aliens as a potential solution to an ongoing mystery is lazy.”

More information on FRBs. The links describe the contents if anyone is interested.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-are-fast-radio-bursts/

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2124209-could-fast-radio-bursts-really-be-powering-alien-space-ships/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/sciencefair/2017/01/04/fast-radio-bursts-dwarf-galaxy/96153394/

 

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badeskov
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Area201 said:

So you're saying you are insignificant. Speak for yourself. 

 

You obviously didn't read more than the first sentence of my post, hence your glaring display of ignorance by all means of respect. I specifically also wrote this:

22 hours ago, badeskov said:

We are certainly significant as we see ourselves. Does by no measure mean that we are on a cosmic scale. By far, rather the opposite.

 Please do read posts fully before replying so as not to make a fool out of yourself.

Cheers,
Badeskov

Edited by badeskov
Typos
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Clockwork_Spirit
Posted (edited)

Yet another form of the gnosticism permeating our society. This topic could fit as much in the spiritual section of the forum.

Edited by TruthSeeker_

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Area201
Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, badeskov said:

It *is* an insignificant piece of rock to the best of our knowledge. 

 

23 hours ago, badeskov said:

How do you know this? Just because we cannot detect intelligent life does not mean it does not exist. Just means that perhaps we simply do not have the means to detect it (which is pretty obvious and openly stated that we simply do not - so far we, as in the human race, only have the means and technology to detect planets that *could* carry life as we know it).

23 hours ago, badeskov said:

No we don't. We have detected many planets - we just do not have the technology to determine whether they harbor life or not. 

I'm sure that ETs exist from several arguments, one being mathematical probability alone. If you read any of my posts here I'm siding with the ETs/UFOs are real group. We have made a significant step here to get to a level 0 civilization even. It's like someone who made the pro league, but is a 3rd string player or the practice squad - lowest end, we are sentient intelligent life here on this rock and it's significant stage relative to the average planet in cosmos, even if some do have microbial life or far advanced life. 

23 hours ago, badeskov said:

We are certainly significant as we see ourselves. Does by no measure mean that we are on a cosmic scale. By far, rather the opposite.

It's not that we are "insignificant" or "significant", it's a scale, it's relative and we have reached a significant stage I'm saying. 

23 hours ago, badeskov said:

What?! :blink: Is that some religious mumbo-jumbo nonsense?!

Yes that's right. Religious Mumbo-Jumbo. Get used to it, as science will continue to prove religion was right the more they discover nature of the universe. We will find it's the concept of a cosmic singularity consciousness variously described by authentic spiritually advanced people, and outward religions merely stated in creative ways of the same reality. 

53 minutes ago, badeskov said:

 Please do read posts fully before replying so as not to make a fool out of yourself.

LOL okay take it easy tough guy

Edited by Area201

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Rlyeh
10 hours ago, bison said:

It could, actually, though other factors are presumably in play, too. The desire to not disturb our situation too seriously, too soon, or too suddenly with knowledge of their existence could cause extraterrestrials to avoid sending easily detectable signals our way.  If they still use radio routinely among themselves, it could easily be in a highly compressed, digitized and frequency dispersed form. This could look like noise to us, since we would lack the unique 'key' to decompress, and demodulate it.  

This assumes all intelligent life is somehow aware of earth, even those who have not left their own planet.

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bison
7 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

This assumes all intelligent life is somehow aware of earth, even those who have not left their own planet.

Yes, it does. We're on the verge of being able to detect the spectrographic chemical signatures of life on exoplanets. It doesn't  seem unreasonable to expect as much, and more, from technically advanced civilizations.

It's already known that very distant radio signals can be focused at relatively nearby points in space, by a star. One would merely need to place radio receiving probes at those points. The gain provided would be so great that even routine, low power communications from stellar distances could be detected. 

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stereologist
1 hour ago, bison said:

Yes, it does. We're on the verge of being able to detect the spectrographic chemical signatures of life on exoplanets. It doesn't  seem unreasonable to expect as much, and more, from technically advanced civilizations.

It's already known that very distant radio signals can be focused at relatively nearby points in space, by a star. One would merely need to place radio receiving probes at those points. The gain provided would be so great that even routine, low power communications from stellar distances could be detected. 

We only have a sample of one from which to work. How do we know the chemical signatures of life on exoplanets? We don't but we can guess. Suppose that our guess is wrong and that something else is a more common indicator of life on another planet? We could end up looking for the wrong chemical signature.

We can think back to the Mars missions to learn where an experiment did not turn out as expected.

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badeskov
15 hours ago, Area201 said:

I'm sure that ETs exist from several arguments, one being mathematical probability alone. If you read any of my posts here I'm siding with the ETs/UFOs are real group.

I am of the belief that ET exists as well. My point was that we just do not have the technological means to verify that yet. And UFO does in no way, shape or form mean ET.

15 hours ago, Area201 said:

We have made a significant step here to get to a level 0 civilization even. It's like someone who made the pro league, but is a 3rd string player or the practice squad - lowest end, we are sentient intelligent life here on this rock and it's significant stage relative to the average planet in cosmos, even if some do have microbial life or far advanced life. 

It's not that we are "insignificant" or "significant", it's a scale, it's relative and we have reached a significant stage I'm saying. 

Then we agree. We are significant from our own point of view, but on a cosmic scale, not so much.

15 hours ago, Area201 said:

Yes that's right. Religious Mumbo-Jumbo. Get used to it, as science will continue to prove religion was right the more they discover nature of the universe. We will find it's the concept of a cosmic singularity consciousness variously described by authentic spiritually advanced people, and outward religions merely stated in creative ways of the same reality. 

Science hasn't proved anything religious of any relevance whatsoever. None. Get used to it. But if you feel otherwise, please do feel free to post said scientific discoveries.

15 hours ago, Area201 said:

LOL okay take it easy tough guy

Oh, I am taking it pretty easy.

Cheers,
Badeskov

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Haroldbattschits

Of course they're here, because too many reputable people have seen aircraft that seemingly defy the laws of physics. Odds are that at least one sighting-out of the thousands reported- is a legitimate "out of this world" extraterrestrial craft not built by humans. All it takes is one sighting to establish that we are not alone. But I'm sure that the reason they haven't made contact is because they know us already, they're probably watching from a distance. If I was an alien, I would never want to expose myself to humans. Because humans are bad. They would steal the technology to use for warfare, and they would certainly imprison the alien in order to do "research" on a new species. Just look at our history, we as a species imprison, oppress and control any and all "less civilized" people that we encounter. 

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seeder
6 minutes ago, Haroldbattschits said:

Of course they're here, because too many reputable people have seen aircraft that seemingly defy the laws of physics. Odds are that at least one sighting-out of the thousands reported- is a legitimate "out of this world" extraterrestrial craft not built by humans. All it takes is one sighting to establish that we are not alone.

 

People seeing a UFO only confirms they saw a UFO.....it in NO WAY means aliens

UFO of course is just something they cant identify

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Haroldbattschits
1 minute ago, seeder said:

 

People seeing a UFO only confirms they saw a UFO.....it in NO WAY means aliens

UFO of course is just something they cant identify

You are 100% correct. However, odds do favor the existence of ET in our vast universe. And when witnesses to UFO's include astronauts, modern jet fighter pilots and other "highly trained" observers, it is wise to listen with an open mind, no matter how fantastical the nature of the claims. (People thought Tesla was crazy when he tried to explain the concept of using the radio spectrum of light to transmit and receive communications without wires) And if you study the mystery of the ruins of Machu Picchu and Puma Punku, it makes a strong case for alien influence of some sort in earths history.

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seeder
30 minutes ago, Haroldbattschits said:

 And if you study the mystery of the ruins of Machu Picchu and Puma Punku, it makes a strong case for alien influence of some sort in earths history.

 

we have had some HUGE threads on Puma Punku in the past, and Ive been very active in those threads.....sorry but no aliens needed....

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stereologist
5 hours ago, Haroldbattschits said:

Of course they're here, because too many reputable people have seen aircraft that seemingly defy the laws of physics. Odds are that at least one sighting-out of the thousands reported- is a legitimate "out of this world" extraterrestrial craft not built by humans. All it takes is one sighting to establish that we are not alone. But I'm sure that the reason they haven't made contact is because they know us already, they're probably watching from a distance. If I was an alien, I would never want to expose myself to humans. Because humans are bad. They would steal the technology to use for warfare, and they would certainly imprison the alien in order to do "research" on a new species. Just look at our history, we as a species imprison, oppress and control any and all "less civilized" people that we encounter. 

Are you saying that people being confused about what they are seeing means aliens? I've been with people that were confused and despite me pointing out they were satellites they continued to think aliens.

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badeskov
23 hours ago, Haroldbattschits said:

Of course they're here, because too many reputable people have seen aircraft that seemingly defy the laws of physics.

Uhm, no. They have seen something they couldn't positively identify. Does not mean anything. 

23 hours ago, Haroldbattschits said:

Odds are that at least one sighting-out of the thousands reported- is a legitimate "out of this world" extraterrestrial craft not built by humans.

And how exactly do you derive those odds?

23 hours ago, Haroldbattschits said:

All it takes is one sighting to establish that we are not alone.

Yes, one sighting that can be verified with tangible evidence. So far that has not happened yet.

23 hours ago, Haroldbattschits said:

But I'm sure that the reason they haven't made contact is because they know us already, they're probably watching from a distance. If I was an alien, I would never want to expose myself to humans. Because humans are bad. They would steal the technology to use for warfare, and they would certainly imprison the alien in order to do "research" on a new species. Just look at our history, we as a species imprison, oppress and control any and all "less civilized" people that we encounter. 

So, all those sightings here on Terra Firma, none were ET because they were watching us as a distance? So they actually were not here?

Cheers,
Badeskov 

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