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Why do people believe the bible?


bigjim36

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8 minutes ago, Will Due said:

Only believe God.

Since it is written that he who comes to God must believe he is, then how did you come to God that you only believe God?

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45 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

 Hey guys!? :st

 Despite my lurking, and my reading this thread, probably up to this point, a question just occurred to me. 

  Has the question been answered, why do people believe in the Bible? I can’t tell, and can’t remember, if the question was answered throughout this 65 page thread.

 Maybe, I might have remembered some people say they believe  parts of the Bible, and some believe all of it. The big question for me is, has anyone admitted to believing all of the Bible? 

And, how do they do that honestly? This question came to me from my memory of a couple books like the one where the Author lived biblically for a year.

 I had not read that book, but based on the synopsis it look like how the author proved how you really can’t do that honestly. So it makes me wonder, who does believe all of it and do they live it? And the ones who believe parts of it, how do they feel about believing And living in what they believe?

 This makes me think about that, as well as I read various posters thoughts and understanding of what the Bible says. And also makes me wonder, those who live what they believe, do they see the conundrum of it?

 

I think it depends. Does one have to follow all the rules, or only those as your denomination says are required? There are lots of ways of reading what Paul wrote which allow for a Christian to live just about whatever life they want. As long as they believe the most base tenets.

Do I believe the Bible? I believe that those who wrote it down believed it was true, and historical. And to believe in God is to believe in the supernatural, and thus that the many miraculous things did happen.

But belief in a religion comes from a want to believe and personal experience, not from the pages of any book. A book can give reasons to believe, but the person has to want to believe or not. 

I believe in Christianity, because of what I have seen it do in people, and in my own life. And this is why I would promote it. But, experiences vary, and so I understand that others hate Christianity due to their own experiences. 

People believe in the Bible because they believe it has helped them. And, IMHO, this is true. Many, many people has been helped by the Bible.

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On 1/5/2018 at 9:03 AM, bigjim36 said:

Why do some people believe the bible is literal? As in everything that is mentioned in the bible literally happened. We know that's not the case, science has proven that the earth is over 6000 years old, that adam and eve never existed, that dinosaurs existed and noahs ark did not, etc etc. Yet when challenged the best they can come up with is it's scripture. It's baffling and annoying, by all means have faith but do not believe the bible is anything other than bronze age fairy tales written by man. 

 

I think I have a rather interesting perspective on this. I was raised Christian and converted to Atheism at 16. I was an individual who took an early interest in philosophy at 13 years old. By the time I was 18 I had developed 18/18 on the iq score for analytical ability. I would deductively argue I am one of the smartest people in the world at this particular aspect of the IQ test due to just applying myself at problem solving since 13. Since 16 I have a various changes in ideas on an extreme level due to refusing not to keep an open mind. My theory is that if I am as open minded as I can be without doing something stupid (And continue to apply myself obviously) eventually my mind/brain will naturally find truth naturally on its own. Well even though I've been really indecisive over the years there is a basis of my ideas that has continued to maintain itself and is growing ever so more. I also use a lot of experimental medicine that has granted me a-lot of insight on these issues as well. They are known as performance enhancers in particular nootropics.

So in answer you your question the reason people are fundamentalist as you describe actually isn't a one size fits all shoe. I go to church for a periods of time, the reasons in no particular order:

1. I practice spirituality for therapeutic purposes but don't believe a word of it. I have a "sense of God" and understand different perspectives on religion deductively without believing them sincerely. Though sometimes I perspective take to an extreme.

2. I go for philosophical purposes. I do love wisdom and there is no such thing as useless idea.

Anyhow these are the reasons I can list off hand for being a fundamentalist:

 

1. People believe it most often for psycho-therapeutic reasons. Lying to yourself can offer great a psychologically induced sense of security. Believing in God for a period of time made me healthier and happier when I was younger and more ignorant. I just said, believed, and almost did a-lot of screwed up things.

2. A much smaller group of people who are much more educated than masses and are usually the leaders and clergy of the religious organizations believe it because they have been biasedly and narrowly focused on certain forms of studying to promote their ideas because of reason number 1. I have many debates with religious scholars and the reason they believe what they think is because for every time they consider Athiesm, science, other perpsectives, etc...they consider their own ideas and promote themselves that much ever more. They act like their open minded and use certain psychological techniques to avoid the truth such as subconsciously desiring their "truth" thus tricking themselves into believing what they want. 

 

2A. If you debate with enough groups of people and reason long enough you will discover that while logic exists and is therefore the taking it is entirely possible to justify any good or bad behavior. You can associate the feeling of sound reason and just ideology with anything. Psychology is a little **** sometimes.

3. Some people really fall for the pseudo-scientific ideas being created by the #2.

To be clear I also go to UU church and have discussed much with muslims, bhuddists, and pagans. I am not one sided.

 

 

 

Edited by zacharybdecker
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52 minutes ago, 029b10 said:

Since it is written that he who comes to God must believe he is, then how did you come to God that you only believe God?

 

By recognition. 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, zacharybdecker said:

1. People believe it most often for psycho-therapeutic reasons. Lying to yourself can offer great a psychologically induced sense of security. Believing in God for a period of time made me healthier and happier when I was younger and more ignorant. I just said, believed, and almost did a-lot of screwed up things.

2. A much smaller group of people who are much more educated than masses and are usually the leaders and clergy of the religious organizations believe it because they have been biasedly and narrowly focused on certain forms of studying to promote their ideas because of reason number 1. I have many debates with religious scholars and the reason they believe what they think is because for every time they consider Athiesm, science, other perpsectives, etc...they consider their own ideas and promote themselves that much ever more. They act like their open minded and use certain psychological techniques to avoid the truth such as subconsciously desiring their "truth" thus tricking themselves into believing what they want. 

 

2A. If you debate with enough groups of people and reason long enough you will discover that while logic exists and is therefore the taking it is entirely possible to justify any good or bad behavior. You can associate the feeling of sound reason and just ideology with anything. Psychology is a little **** sometimes.

3. Some people really fall for the pseudo-scientific ideas being created by the #2.

So Ignorance, Us vs them mentality and a logical loop. Pretty sure it's considerably more complex than that, in my opinion.

Welcome to UM by the way.

What is a UU Church?

Edited by danydandan
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36 minutes ago, danydandan said:

What is a UU Church?

Unitarian Universalist. Two very liberal historically-descended-from-Protestantism churches merged some time ago in the US. It's non-creedal, welcomes all beliefs including "none," and has a political reputation somewhere in Bernie Sanders' brand of social democracy, maybe a tad to his left. It's searchable if you want details.

ETA: Welcome aboard Zachary

Edited by eight bits
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32 minutes ago, danydandan said:

So Ignorance, Us vs them mentality and a logical loop. Pretty sure it's considerably more complex than that, in my opinion.

Welcome to UM by the way.

What is a UU Church?

Dandydandan, 

UU church is universal Unitarian church. Just to let you know if you actually read my post and quoted it fully your statement would make zero sense. I've gone to church numerous times, I study theology on and off again. I just don't agree with you. I literally understand the Christian perspective and the Atheist perspective simultaneously. I can tell you what the Christian perspective is and what stands for logically while maintaining my ideas. That is almost the opposite of us vs. them. It sounds like your vaguely labeling.

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Just now, eight bits said:

Unitarian Universalist. Two very liberal historically-descended-from-Protestantism churches merged some time ago in the US. It's non-creedal, welcomes all beliefs including "none," and has a political reputation somewhere in Bernie Sanders' brand of social democracy, maybe a tad to his left. It's searchable if you want details.

Just to so you know I don't mostly believe the mainstream politics of the UU church.

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8 minutes ago, zacharybdecker said:

Dandydandan, 

UU church is universal Unitarian church. Just to let you know if you actually read my post and quoted it fully your statement would make zero sense. I've gone to church numerous times, I study theology on and off again. I just don't agree with you. I literally understand the Christian perspective and the Atheist perspective simultaneously. I can tell you what the Christian perspective is and what stands for logically while maintaining my ideas. That is almost the opposite of us vs. them. It sounds like your vaguely labeling.

Welcome to UM  Zachary, what do you mean by “I literally understand the Christian and Athiest perspective, simultaneously” (Zacharybdecker)?

 

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13 minutes ago, Will Due said:

By recognition. 

While I am not questioning your faith, so hopefully it won't be perceived as such; yet I have found the passage in Hebrews 11:6 regarding those who come to God to be an interesting subject since it represents by implication that a person who comes to God would not know whether God actually existed or not, but unless one believed in the possibility of his existence then they would never be able to come to the knowledge of him. 

If he who comes to God must believe he is, then obviously they wouldn't know him, or have any knowledge of him since it is written that they must believe he is.  Since hope is believing something is true without any evidence of it's truth, then could explain what you meant exactly by your response that you came to God by recognition?

( I consider recognition to be the identification of someone or something or person from previous encounters or knowledge so maybe you have a better definition or define it a little different that the one I am using.)

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15 minutes ago, zacharybdecker said:

Dandydandan, 

UU church is universal Unitarian church. Just to let you know if you actually read my post and quoted it fully your statement would make zero sense. I've gone to church numerous times, I study theology on and off again. I just don't agree with you. I literally understand the Christian perspective and the Atheist perspective simultaneously. I can tell you what the Christian perspective is and what stands for logically while maintaining my ideas. That is almost the opposite of us vs. them. It sounds like your vaguely labeling.

The personal stuff is not relevant to the discussion. I just qouted the responses you gave to the actual question. 

You broke down the question why people believe the Bible into a few points. I believe it's far more complex and complicated that. Your second point you mention that the establishment think their ideas are more important than Science etcetera. That's where I got the Us vs them mentality aspect. 

So in other words you believe some people follow the Bible because of some cognitive dissonance or biases, whether they are forced upon them by others or by themselves unknown to them themselves? 

Yeah I never heard you the UU Church. Sounds interesting I'll have to give it a study.

26 minutes ago, eight bits said:

Unitarian Universalist. Two very liberal historically-descended-from-Protestantism churches merged some time ago in the US. It's non-creedal, welcomes all beliefs including "none," and has a political reputation somewhere in Bernie Sanders' brand of social democracy, maybe a tad to his left. It's searchable if you want details.

ETA: Welcome aboard Zachary

Accepts all people even Atheists I assume that's the universalist aspect?

Iassume Unitarian means they reject Jesus as the Son of God and reject the Holy Trinity? 

That is interesting.... Down the rabbit hole I go one this religion so. 

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12 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Welcome to UM  Zachary, what do you mean by “I literally understand the Christian and Athiest perspective, simultaneously” (Zacharybdecker)?

 

It's something someone can do. 

Raised and believing in a Christian God then not believing. Well maybe not simultaneously, but consecutively? I don't know, 

I'm pretty sure I understand a Catholic perspective and an agnostic perspective too.

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Assuming Yahweh is the true one god, that the bible was inspired by him written through people having divine inspiration, and that the historical method is pragmatic the following would be true:

Jesus is God the son sent in the form of a baby through Mary. 

The Torah would have to be true otherwise no none believes in the history of the Hebrews and thus they don't believe in much equatable valued history. 

 

The reason I don't believe in the above is because of things like Heaven and Hell. If you study things long in science, etc. enough destiny is real fact. People are basically going to hell and heaven by faith. Quite an evil action in fact. 

There are parts of the Torah where and "crowd for eye" is taken by God. An example in Exodus if anybody touches a certain wall they are to be killed according to God. 

 

Long story short what I'm doing is thinking/"believing" like a christian while maintaining my Athiesm on the actuality subject. I'm doing an extreme form of perspective taking.

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12 minutes ago, 029b10 said:

While I am not questioning your faith, so hopefully it won't be perceived as such; yet I have found the passage in Hebrews 11:6 regarding those who come to God to be an interesting subject since it represents by implication that a person who comes to God would not know whether God actually existed or not, but unless one believed in the possibility of his existence then they would never be able to come to the knowledge of him. 

If he who comes to God must believe he is, then obviously they wouldn't know him, or have any knowledge of him since it is written that they must believe he is.  Since hope is believing something is true without any evidence of it's truth, then could explain what you meant exactly by your response that you came to God by recognition?

( I consider recognition to be the identification of someone or something or person from previous encounters or knowledge so maybe you have a better definition or define it a little different that the one I am using.)

 

Here's how it happened for me. First I didn't believe IN God. Then a point came where I couldn't deny that I recognized I was having an experience with him. The experience "spoke" for God. The experience was like hearing his voice telling me what to do.

So I decided to believe God (Contradistinctive to believing IN God).

I was an atheist when this happened. But I recognized God anyways.

Reading about God came much later. And whenever I do, which is often like I do whenever I peruse this forum, I believe God when he tells me what's true about what I'm reading.

Again, I believe God directly. Believing IN him has never occured in my life.

 

 

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The main tenant and point of being a universal Unitarian is "a free and responsible search for truth and meaning." What that means basically is they get a bunch of people with different ideas in the same room and share different perspectives. Admittedly a lot of people in the Unitarian Universalist church like a bunch of very liberal flops.

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God is my friend, and I believe him just like I believe all my true friends.

 

 

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@Jodie.Lynne

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3 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

Has the question been answered, why do people believe in the Bible?

Nope. It turned into a "my ego is bigger than yours" discussion.

Ahhhh, gotcha. 

Thanks for the update. :D  

@eight bits

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3 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

 Maybe, I might have remembered some people say they believe  parts of the Bible, and some believe all of it. The big question for me is, has anyone admitted to believing all of the Bible? 

Not yet, but we have one active poster who believes another book that "complements" the Bible.

*shrugs*

Yeah, I have been noticing that. 

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  3 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

 I had not read that book, but based on the synopsis it look like how the author proved how you really can’t do that honestly.

Actually, I haven't read that book etiher, but from your description of it, Paul was saying that almost 2000 years ago.

So, this latest author, is doing an update. ;)  

@Will Due

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Only believe God.

He let's you know what's true in life, what's true that's written in books, what's true about what people tell you, and most importantly, what's true about how others and especially you live your life.

Only believe God.

No, only believe Carol Burnett. I think she let's you know what is true in life, what true written in her books, and what's .........

well, and she does it with a Tarzan yell. :D   

Seriously though, Will, if you know for a fact, an observable fact that it is God, that tells you this, how can you explain it to others, that it's really is God that you tells you this? 

Because, I have observed from some, that they only believed in God, and after all of it, couldn't tell it was him and gave up. You know, because there was no real evidence to say it was him. 

 

@DieChecker

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I think it depends. Does one have to follow all the rules, or only those as your denomination says are required? There are lots of ways of reading what Paul wrote which allow for a Christian to live just about whatever life they want. As long as they believe the most base tenets.

Thank you for you answer. :yes: 

The thing is, for me to understand this in a quick simplification, why pick and choose, when there must have been a reason for all of it to be written. I also have observed various point of views that claim the following biblical outlook, so I would think all of it. If not all of the bible is followed, that I would think it's not entirely biblical living, right?

I think you know of this of me, so considering I haven't read the bible, (or all of the orthodox religious books) and didn't go to church growing up and still not up to this point, what Paul said, I would leave that up to you in knowing. 

In thinking it's ok in believing the most base tenets, what is keeping that from breaking down to what is considered important and what is not? 

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Do I believe the Bible? I believe that those who wrote it down believed it was true, and historical. And to believe in God is to believe in the supernatural, and thus that the many miraculous things did happen.

I think this part is probably a realistic outlook. I have come across various deep believers, (Christians mostly), who separates God and Christ with the supernatural. Or in a sense, have a hard time seeing things within religious context akin to a paranormal outlook. I would think there would be exactly the way to look at it. I can understand the way you believe what you believe, because my belief stems from a supernatural outlook as well. Whether I have seen miraculous things happen, (parts of me thinks so in a interested way) or just things that I have yet to explain. *shrugs*

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But belief in a religion comes from a want to believe and personal experience, not from the pages of any book. A book can give reasons to believe, but the person has to want to believe or not. 

The last part of this I think I agree with. :yes:  (And feel strongly on the personal experience part. And that a lack of it, my not going to church, which I'll mention again here, can be a driving factor too.) I am considering the wording, 'belief in a religion comes from a want to believe' as thought provoking. I see this as a good thing. :tu:  Maybe I'm mulling over this, because I tend to partner 'wanting to believe' to 'choosing to believe'. And as some here have observed of me, I cannot see how anyone can 'choose' to believe, as it's something akin to feelings and emotions, and forcing one to feel and such, is pretty much something I find as damaging to one's psychic. 

Though, 'wanting to believe' I can at one point, see it as understandable. I think I want to believe various paranormal things, because I'm fascinated in it. I can see wanting to believe my unique beliefs, because of what it does for me. So, I think, I can see your point in this. 

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I believe in Christianity, because of what I have seen it do in people, and in my own life. And this is why I would promote it. But, experiences vary, and so I understand that others hate Christianity due to their own experiences. 

As I have often expressed on these boards, I have come across many people, who believe in Christianity, actually follow it and have been wonderful because of it. I would think they would be true Christians. I have also see what I believe as true Muslims, true Jewish followers, true New Age followers............ etc, etch. I feel, that at it's core, most all religions have the selfless and caring outlook. 

I also have come across individuals in these religions as well, who don't seem to behave as such, yet claim they do, and I wonder of the teaching of such beliefs and how it either fails them, or they have failed it. (I often wonder of that of myself) So, I personally see a mixed ideal of whether it's the belief or the person that drives them to behave as they do. 

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People believe in the Bible because they believe it has helped them. And, IMHO, this is true. Many, many people has been helped by the Bible.

I don't disagree with that. I think it has. I also think the Koran, the Torah, the book of Shadows, and various books have helped various people. Heck, the autobiographies of Carol Burnett have been my path to peace. Certain authors Native American historical fictions have changed my outlook on things. As a bookseller for close to twenty years, I have seen a lot of books help people. But, as I have noticed how some books might help some people, I don't think the same books help all of the people. Or, there would be one particular consistent best seller, and the others fall out of print. 

I tend to get annoyed when some people had passionately pushed books that helped them to others, to me, and don't realize that it might not do the same thing for others. I guess, that falls into the same category I see, as what if it's the person and not the ideal, belief, or book, that helps the person, it's the person who just needed some kind of key to help themselves. 

I just think, if it's to be said to live and behave biblical, it would be to do it all the way. 

@Will Due

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2 hours ago, 029b10 said:

Since it is written that he who comes to God must believe he is, then how did you come to God that you only believe God?

 

By recognition. 

How were able to recognize it was God? I think, if you are going to answer this question, you would add more to your answer to show the complete picture. 

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3 hours ago, Will Due said:

 

Only believe God.

He let's you know what's true in life, what's true that's written in books, what's true about what people tell you, and most importantly, what's true about how others and especially you live your life.

Only believe God.

Ask God what my name is.

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38 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

Ask God what my name is.

Oliver, Jack or Noah or Charlotte, Ava or Harper. 

 

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1 hour ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

how can you explain it to others, that it really is God that tells you this? 

 

I don't have to explain it to others. 

Others have to explain it to themselves (when the universe speaks to them within) why they either ignore, or recognize what they're experiencing.

 

ETA: For the record, when the universe speaks to me, I regularly ignore what I'm experiencing. To my detriment.

 

 

Edited by Will Due
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2 hours ago, danydandan said:

Iassume Unitarian means they reject Jesus as the Son of God and reject the Holy Trinity? 

Unless of course you don't, in which case that's OK, too :)

Both unitarian and universalist have common noun meanings in Christian jargon (non-Trinitarian and everybody who wants to be saved gets saved, respectively). The churches that merged in the US, capital-U Unintarian and Universalist, had their own histories as movements. I don't know the story of the big-U Universalists in the US. I know something about the big-U Unitarians because Greater Boston was a major center of the movement and I'm a New Englander.

ETA: It still is popular around here; I didn't mean "was" to imply "just in the past."

1 hour ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

So, this latest author, is doing an update. ;)  

:)

Edited by eight bits
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17 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Not sure if you got my point.

  I am an evolutionist who doesn't think creationism should  be taught in schools  as a factual subject like science or history 

In Australia it is banned in govt schools

The point of these articles was that, despite a secular education, more young people are becoming creationist, and a school can't ignore their beliefs.

Thus, schools  need to teach the science of evolution, while not causing young people  to turn against science, because of their beliefs.

A school or a govt simply doesn't have the right to try and impose a belief or indeed a disbelief on its citizens.  

A school that simply says,  "Your beliefs are rubbish"  will disengage young  people and never have a chance to win them over.  

A democratic govt, for better or worse, cannot teach that  a belief or faith is  bunk or rubbish, where many of its citizens hold a belief that it is not  

Just to add (too much time had elapsed to alter my original reply)

 

In  great britain

according to a 2006 Mori poll, 39 per cent of people believe in either creationism or intelligent design – and more than 40 per cent believe they should be taught in schools.

In the usa

Our 39 per cent of people being adherents to creationism may sound high, but it is considerably lower than the United States, where surveys say that 66 per cent of people believed that the world was less than 10,000 years old – and even 16 per cent of biology teachers are creationists. 

very difficult for a democratic govt to directly oppose the fundamental values and beliefs of its citizens.

 

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19 hours ago, onlookerofmayhem said:

I never claimed mentally challenged people couldn't be educated or intelligent. In my opinion, if someone believes every detail of the bible is true they are mentally challenged in that aspect. Not in every aspect of their life. That's the caveat. There is no good reason for faith. It is not a reliable path to truth.

Specifically believing in a world wide flood, a virgin birth, food multiplication, necromancy and resurrection. among many other ridiculous claims the bible contains.

OK that is more acceptable. Of course, however, humans construct beliefs to meet real psychological needs generated by the nature of our self ware intelligence.

Without those beliefs the y might be scared grieving  or disempowered by life, and thus not fully functioning  Thus a belief does not have to be true for it to serve a very useful purpose in improving human functionality. The BELIEF itself serves this cognitive, psychological, and thus  physiological, purpose.  

Faith and belief often are constructed where truths are not known, and are unknowable.   The reason for  faith is not to find material  truth, but to find hope, power, courage,  etc. 

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19 hours ago, third_eye said:

You again failed to grasp the coherent nature of your displayed obstinacy ...

~
Your reliance on ears here speaks volumes ....
 
~

 

Meh ... You really should seek professional help for your incessant obsession with @Sherapy

You might want to check your grasp of the English language there ... ' teacher '

~

I will make a joint consultation for her and me. :) 

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19 hours ago, third_eye said:

You again failed to grasp the coherent nature of your displayed obstinacy ...

~
Your reliance on ears here speaks volumes ....
 
~

 

Meh ... You really should seek professional help for your incessant obsession with @Sherapy

You might want to check your grasp of the English language there ... ' teacher '

~

Nothing wrong with the language, other than me leaving out a few commas.  :) 

i don't have your obsession with dotting the I s and crossing the Ts in every sentence in a post.   

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