eight bits Posted February 5, 2019 #1701 Share Posted February 5, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, Mr Walker said: Yup i mean in that way It becomes a new "religion" when it rejects the basic precepts and tenets of the old one. OK, and I think that's what Paul did. He announces a "new covenant" with a role for Gentiles; the "old covenant" having run its course, in his view, with the climactic sacrifice of Jesus. Which left the Gentiles to work out the details of how they would deal with adherents of the old covenant (the context in which such things as a sabbath observance had been commanded) and with their partners in the new covenant who remained "culturally Jewish" (Paul doesn't give details, but remarks that Peter-Cephas doesn't live according to the Law. At the same time, except for Paul and his co-workers, nobody in the Jewish sect seems in any rush to recruit goyim.) Paul's gospel is a very dramatic and sudden "rejection" of his cradle religion (and for their part, the Gentiles were called upon to break sharply from their cradle religion, too). The actual divorce, though, seems much more gradual. As some of your material documented, there were "Judaizers" within the Christian movement as late as the Fourth Century (even now, the Eastern Orthodox think that the Roman Catholic eucharist, which uses unleavened bread, aka "crackers." is unseemly and altogether too "Jewish." The Orthodox altar bread looks like a bundt cake sometimes. ) 8 hours ago, Mr Walker said: Arguably, protestant Christianity is quite a different religion to Catholic Christianity It's a spectrum, isn't it? In an earlier post, you were a bit tetchy about the Protestant credentials of the Anglican Communion (the largest Protestant denomination, if its Protestantism is acknowledged), because of how "Catholic" they seem to you. Parts of the Lutheran movement must look about the same way to you, although I suspect even you'd concede that Luther was a bona fide Protestant, lol. But there are plenty of other denominations, one or another as different from Catholicism as anybody could possibly wish, in whatever way you could possibly imagine 8 hours ago, Mr Walker said: Which way is the most constructive for the most people, and which way is the closest to the principles of the founders of the religion? Catholicism has moved far away from the founding principles and Christ's teachings and while it has offered a great deal of hope and comfort to millions, it has also led Christianity into a destructive and less loving path. Modern peole turn away from a god or religion that preaches eternal hell fire and damnation from the time you die, which is also contrary to the writings of the bible. .Like the Lord, Mr Walker giveth and Mr Walker taketh away. Hell fire, etc., isn't contrary to the writings of the Bible, it's one interpretation of the writings among many others. I am inclined to agree that "Catholicism has moved far away from the founding principles and Christ's teachings" in the sense that that would be just about inevitable 1500 years or so from its own emergence as an autonomous entity and almost 2000 years after the time of Pilate in Judea. However, God only knows what the "founding principles" actually were; we have glimpses from Paul of how he ran things, but the same source tells us that other Christians did things differently from Paul. And "Christ's teachings?" Paul didn't think those were worth the bandwidth to discuss much. We the living simply don't know what they were, or even if there were any distinctive ones. Paul does tell us that Jesus was a minister or servant to the Jews (Romans 15:8-9), but he doesn't elaborate. It isn't obvious that "fidelity to the founders" is retaining their teachings as originally taught. Maybe fidelity consists in developing their ideas further. Fidelity to Newton does. How would I know fidelity to Jesus or Paul would be any different? Edited February 5, 2019 by eight bits 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted February 5, 2019 #1702 Share Posted February 5, 2019 7 minutes ago, danydandan said: The only thing I see is people asking others for sustainable evidence for their claims of supernatural. In your case anyways. Is disagreeing with your conclusions regarding your experiences considered accusations of lying to you? Because it isn't. Are you not going to answer the stereotyping question? Do you consider stereotyping people into a team because they disagree with your opinion flamebaiting? You are not following the bouncing ball, if that is what you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danydandan Posted February 5, 2019 #1703 Share Posted February 5, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Habitat said: You are not following the bouncing ball, if that is what you think. Can't answer either simple question no? Thought so. Are we done here? Edited February 5, 2019 by danydandan 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted February 5, 2019 #1704 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Just now, danydandan said: Can't answer either simple question no? Thought so. Are done here? This is the same sort of combative nonsense you were carrying on about non-existent bragging a day or two ago. Step back and relax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted February 5, 2019 #1705 Share Posted February 5, 2019 (edited) One very important thing I've learn in my time here(admittedly, a difficult, sometimes painful lesson) is how to not take myself or criticism from others too seriously. It's important to learn how to see oneself through the eyes of others, hear what one says through their ears(artistic license, since it's all text) and, basically, laugh at oneself. When one laughs too, they're not laughing at you anymore, they're laughing with you. Edited February 5, 2019 by Hammerclaw 4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlyeh Posted February 5, 2019 #1706 Share Posted February 5, 2019 14 hours ago, danydandan said: Oliver, Jack or Noah or Charlotte, Ava or Harper. Not quite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danydandan Posted February 5, 2019 #1707 Share Posted February 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Rlyeh said: Not quite. Close? I was covering all bases. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlyeh Posted February 5, 2019 #1708 Share Posted February 5, 2019 5 minutes ago, danydandan said: Close? I was covering all bases. Close enough that some of those letters appear in my name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danydandan Posted February 5, 2019 #1709 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Just now, Rlyeh said: Close enough that some of those letters appear in my name. See, I knew I had paranormal abilities. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlyeh Posted February 5, 2019 #1710 Share Posted February 5, 2019 1 minute ago, danydandan said: See, I knew I had paranormal abilities. Maybe you're God? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted February 5, 2019 #1711 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Rivetting stuff ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danydandan Posted February 5, 2019 #1712 Share Posted February 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, Rlyeh said: Maybe you're God? I've never met MrWalker so I doubt it. Or any of the others who have claimed to have met God. 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted February 5, 2019 #1713 Share Posted February 5, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said: What are the characteristics of the universe speaking to someone? Please Stubbly, I'm definitely not anyone special. Below average probably. If the universe speaks to me, it certainly speaks to everyone. If I can ignore what the universe says to me within, says to me with everything added up in life, so can everyone. Likewise with recognition. Going where I'm being directed to go and doing what I'm being asked to do. Which generally is more than a little perturbing (which is why I sometimes decide to pretend that the instructions are vague so I can continue doing what I know is wrong to do). But as I get older, after following where I've been led to go and doing what I know deep down inside I should do (perturbing as it sometimes is) more and more because of it, I experience great joy. This doesn't happen to you too? Edited February 5, 2019 by Will Due 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stubbly_Dooright Posted February 5, 2019 #1714 Share Posted February 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Will Due said: 8 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said: I find your answer as very vague. And on the other hand, I don’t think you actually answered my question. And I believe, yes you do have to explain it if you going to make simple vague statements. What evidence do you have that others know what’s going on to be able to explain it to them selves? What are the characteristics of the universe speaking to someone? If you know this is what is going on, then you now how to point it out. I have decided to put my whole post in, and highlighting the part you quoted, so we can get a good idea what I was actually asking. Quote Please Stubbly, I'm definitely not anyone special. Below average probably. If the universe speaks to me, it certainly speaks to everyone. So, you are saying. but,I'm not questioning your actions and behavior. I'm questioning your instructional statement and how it will do what you say it will do. If it 'certainly speaks to everyone', then show how. I find that part of your quote very vague. (and probably mis-directing) Quote Likewise with recognition. Going where I'm being directed to go and doing what I'm being asked to do. Which generally is more than a little perturbing (which is why I sometimes decide to pretend that the instructions are vague so I can continue doing what I know is wrong to do). But as I get older, after following where I've been led to go and doing what I know deep down inside I should do (perturbing as it sometimes is) more and more because of it, I experience great joy. I don't see how you show you are 'directed how to go and show how you're doing what you're being asked to do. So, you didn't answer the actually question, (that you quoted), which is I find an important step to know, if people just 'believe God' like you say they should. You say something should happen to them, like I believe you said it would in the post that I questioned. On top of that, you mentioned it's vagueness and that you can't understand it very well yourself, despite the surety of your outlook of what you say will happen. Quote This doesn't happen to you too? Why are you even questioning it? I I'm to go by what you are saying, you should know if it's happening to me or not. You know, by the characteristics that happens every time someone does what you say and just believes God. If I knew it was happening to me, don't you think I would be very sure about it and then talk about the characteristics of how it came to be? I know, I feel that there is a possibility it does what you are saying, but there is also the possibility that it doesn't too. You know, because the understanding of what is happening is so very vague. And considering you lack to explain how God or the universe speaks to you, I feel you lack the surety that it is actually what is happening. In other words, the universe could just be acting like the universe with no thought or foresight. Wouldn't the vagueness of the 'message' pretty much logically also see it's just the natural way of things? I assure you, there is another part of me that considers this as true. Might that I might get 'messages' from the universe, I also would just it as a universe. Plus, for as vague the 'messages' are, (that I see you explaining it) I could be seeing 'messages' from other sources, (unless you are saying it's all universe, then that's a further trip into major vagueness) So my question was, provide the characteristics (with sources) of such a think you say happens when people 'believe God'. It wasn't to ask how you handle it. I find that irrelevant to the point, and more damning of what you state as not one hundred percent true. If you can't know for sure that's it's happening to you, how can you know it will happen all of the time for everyone else? And if you can't, then you cannot (in my way of observing this) I don't think you should make a statement about what happens, when you really don't know what happens. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted February 5, 2019 #1715 Share Posted February 5, 2019 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said: I have decided to put my whole post in, and highlighting the part you quoted, so we can get a good idea what I was actually asking. So, you are saying. but,I'm not questioning your actions and behavior. I'm questioning your instructional statement and how it will do what you say it will do. If it 'certainly speaks to everyone', then show how. I find that part of your quote very vague. (and probably mis-directing) I don't see how you show you are 'directed how to go and show how you're doing what you're being asked to do. So, you didn't answer the actually question, (that you quoted), which is I find an important step to know, if people just 'believe God' like you say they should. You say something should happen to them, like I believe you said it would in the post that I questioned. On top of that, you mentioned it's vagueness and that you can't understand it very well yourself, despite the surety of your outlook of what you say will happen. Why are you even questioning it? I I'm to go by what you are saying, you should know if it's happening to me or not. You know, by the characteristics that happens every time someone does what you say and just believes God. If I knew it was happening to me, don't you think I would be very sure about it and then talk about the characteristics of how it came to be? I know, I feel that there is a possibility it does what you are saying, but there is also the possibility that it doesn't too. You know, because the understanding of what is happening is so very vague. And considering you lack to explain how God or the universe speaks to you, I feel you lack the surety that it is actually what is happening. In other words, the universe could just be acting like the universe with no thought or foresight. Wouldn't the vagueness of the 'message' pretty much logically also see it's just the natural way of things? I assure you, there is another part of me that considers this as true. Might that I might get 'messages' from the universe, I also would just it as a universe. Plus, for as vague the 'messages' are, (that I see you explaining it) I could be seeing 'messages' from other sources, (unless you are saying it's all universe, then that's a further trip into major vagueness) So my question was, provide the characteristics (with sources) of such a think you say happens when people 'believe God'. It wasn't to ask how you handle it. I find that irrelevant to the point, and more damning of what you state as not one hundred percent true. If you can't know for sure that's it's happening to you, how can you know it will happen all of the time for everyone else? And if you can't, then you cannot (in my way of observing this) I don't think you should make a statement about what happens, when you really don't know what happens. Stubbly, I understand that you didn't like what I said, but please look at what I said again. I didn't say what the universe says is vague. I said that it can be decided to pretend that what the universe says is vague. And I'll add this to my last post. The great joy that's experienced from believing directly and following the universe's instructions against what might otherwise be desired to do (because it's perturbing) comes later. Sometimes much later. Days, if not years. However, it can be immediately enjoyed. Knowing that you've displaced your own will with the will of something much greater than yourself, which for now, I'm going to call the will of the universe. And that increasingly makes something that was never vague in the first place, even more clear. And easier to do. It's the doing, that becomes the evidence. Edited February 5, 2019 by Will Due 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted February 5, 2019 #1716 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Oh dear ... ~ 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danydandan Posted February 5, 2019 #1717 Share Posted February 5, 2019 45 minutes ago, Will Due said: Stubbly, I understand that you didn't like what I said, but please look at what I said again. I didn't say what the universe says is vague. I said that it can be decided to pretend that what the universe says is vague. And I'll add this to my last post. The great joy that's experienced from believing directly and following the universe's instructions against what might otherwise be desired to do (because it's perturbing) comes later. Sometimes much later. Days, if not years. However, it can be immediately enjoyed. Knowing that you've displaced your own will with the will of something much greater than yourself, which for now, I'm going to call the will of the universe. And that increasingly makes something that was never vague in the first place, even more clear. And easier to do. It's the doing, that becomes the evidence. So your a mindless drone? 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danydandan Posted February 5, 2019 #1718 Share Posted February 5, 2019 26 minutes ago, danydandan said: Knowing that you've displaced your own will with the will of something much greater than yourself, which for now, I'm going to call the will of the universe @Will Due. That's what you said. Reads like your ok with something subverting your will. And forcing their/it's will upon you. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danydandan Posted February 5, 2019 #1719 Share Posted February 5, 2019 (edited) @Will Due your comment doesn't say anything about choosing. Or an I supposed to read between the fecking lines to extract meaning about what the hell your taking about? If you're fine with not having free will of your own, it explains alot really. You sound more like a cult member every day. Edited February 5, 2019 by danydandan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daughter of the Nine Moons Posted February 5, 2019 #1720 Share Posted February 5, 2019 There are far too many personal attacks in this thread. Thread closed for moderator review. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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