Rlyeh Posted February 18, 2018 #76 Share Posted February 18, 2018 1 minute ago, DieChecker said: Apparently enough for it to make into the basis of a myth that stayed in the region for thousands of years before it was even written down. Either it did or it didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted February 18, 2018 #77 Share Posted February 18, 2018 1 minute ago, Rlyeh said: Either it did or it didn't. So because Humanity was not wiped out by the Black Sea Flood, then it can't possibly be the origin of the Flood Myth? OK, gotcha. Good argument councilor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlyeh Posted February 18, 2018 #78 Share Posted February 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, DieChecker said: So because Humanity was not wiped out by the Black Sea Flood, then it can't possibly be the origin of the Flood Myth? OK, gotcha. Good argument councilor. Nice try but that's not what you said before; "God has started over a number of times. With the Flood, He wiped out almost all humanity." You're saying he almost wiped out humanity. Did it happen or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted February 18, 2018 #79 Share Posted February 18, 2018 2 hours ago, DieChecker said: Is not the Earth going to die someday? You are purposefully turning it around. It is the hope of eternal life that drives people (or should). That everything else passes away is simply a result of the universe moving on. Just for a moment, entertain the thought that instead of looking forward to the end of the world/everything. But instead try to make this world a better place, being better people, Instead of expecting some demi-god to do it for you (you meaning all believers). Plus if you decide to spend all your time looking forward to the afterlife, what real life do you actually have? I can't help but think that some level of self-hate is involved with that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted February 18, 2018 #80 Share Posted February 18, 2018 7 minutes ago, XenoFish said: Just for a moment, entertain the thought that instead of looking forward to the end of the world/everything. But instead try to make this world a better place, being better people, Instead of expecting some demi-god to do it for you (you meaning all believers). Plus if you decide to spend all your time looking forward to the afterlife, what real life do you actually have? I can't help but think that some level of self-hate is involved with that. Christians are supposed to live in the world, but not be of the world. However that doesn't mean you sit in your basement praying for the end of the world. That is just plain stupid. Those are the same people who refuse to go to the doctor, and instead just keep praying over open wounds, begging for miraculous healing. That is just plain stupid. God gave us medicine, and education, so doctors could help us. You are probably right that there is some level of self hate in those who are doing what you suggest. I've seen a few of them. And they actually hate everyone and everything, pretty much, and are down right horrible, disturbing, and miserable people. If you went to 10 different churches on any given Sunday, do you imagine that the pews/benches/chairs are going to be filled with such people? They are not. Those people generally will call themselves Christians, but they will not fit into society and will flee from organized churches. Generally those who you will find in a average corner (or Mega-) church are happy, balanced, social people. So, I agree those people exist, but they are by far, in my experience, the minority of Believers. Instead most Christians cherish each other, and their lives, and (attempt) to love their "neighbors". Do not believe everything the Internet and anti-religious media puts out as Truth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted February 18, 2018 #81 Share Posted February 18, 2018 2 hours ago, Rlyeh said: Nice try but that's not what you said before; "God has started over a number of times. With the Flood, He wiped out almost all humanity." You're saying he almost wiped out humanity. Did it happen or not? I believe it did Not Happen. However it is to be understood that God did start over several times. The Flood story is most likely a metaphor, just as almost all of the stories of Genesis are. If we are to believe the Flood was real, then we have to believe that God made people out of dirt, while the animals were made out of just thin air. And that any number of "impossible" things happened that pretty obviously didn't. Like with the Exodus, where it says 600 thousand men (not including the woman and children) left Egypt. The number if true would represent almost the entire population of Egypt at the time, given current data, so is obviously inflated. Point is.... metaphor. God did start over several times. And the basis of the Flood was one of those. The coming of Jesus was another start over. Judgement Day will just be another start over. Hopefully one that will be the last, and greatest. And... You said, "The non-existent flood.". Do you still stand by that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted February 18, 2018 #82 Share Posted February 18, 2018 9 minutes ago, DieChecker said: Instead most Christians cherish each other, and their lives, and (attempt) to love their "neighbors". Do not believe everything the Internet and anti-religious media puts out as Truth. I take everything with a grain of salt and a pinch of pepper, probably the reason I'm rather cynical. The whole love thy neighbor thing doesn't bother me. It's the elitist that do. You as a fellow member are one of the few that I actually enjoy conversing with on this subject. You are well thought out and constructive, but a few here are prime examples of the dark side of faith. That god will do this, and god will do that. Like god is some vending machine you put prayers in. Even when I was a christian I thought that idea was stupid. Really stupid. To be honest I felt the best approach was asking for guidance in achieving things. I don't believe or disbelieve now, for practical purposes I do not honestly care, because this really isn't about god, it's about people, and what people do with their idea of god. If we consider how some like to harp on the whole 'fire and brimstone' thing, or that Jesus will only save the believers. That no matter how good a person you are you're still going to hell. Those kinds of messages mess people up, I know. My grandmother loved to do that to me. I mean as a kid the whole idea that god had his own son killed was disturbing. All because I was born a screw up. Just felt so wrong. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted February 18, 2018 #83 Share Posted February 18, 2018 23 minutes ago, XenoFish said: I take everything with a grain of salt and a pinch of pepper, probably the reason I'm rather cynical. The whole love thy neighbor thing doesn't bother me. It's the elitist that do. You as a fellow member are one of the few that I actually enjoy conversing with on this subject. You are well thought out and constructive, but a few here are prime examples of the dark side of faith. That god will do this, and god will do that. Like god is some vending machine you put prayers in. Even when I was a christian I thought that idea was stupid. Really stupid. To be honest I felt the best approach was asking for guidance in achieving things. I don't believe or disbelieve now, for practical purposes I do not honestly care, because this really isn't about god, it's about people, and what people do with their idea of god. If we consider how some like to harp on the whole 'fire and brimstone' thing, or that Jesus will only save the believers. That no matter how good a person you are you're still going to hell. Those kinds of messages mess people up, I know. My grandmother loved to do that to me. I mean as a kid the whole idea that god had his own son killed was disturbing. All because I was born a screw up. Just felt so wrong. There are some here who are dark. But, I do try to see what they are saying, even if they are coming at it from a rather bias angle. It isn't that they are always wrong, but that what they post is put forward in a way that is antagonistic. Purposefully so in many cases. I find that is not what Jesus meant when he said to love thy neighbor. You don't save people by going around p***ing them off and making them hate you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlyeh Posted February 18, 2018 #84 Share Posted February 18, 2018 (edited) 38 minutes ago, DieChecker said: I believe it did Not Happen. However it is to be understood that God did start over several times. The Flood story is most likely a metaphor, just as almost all of the stories of Genesis are. If we are to believe the Flood was real, then we have to believe that God made people out of dirt, while the animals were made out of just thin air. And that any number of "impossible" things happened that pretty obviously didn't. Like with the Exodus, where it says 600 thousand men (not including the woman and children) left Egypt. The number if true would represent almost the entire population of Egypt at the time, given current data, so is obviously inflated. You'd be more convincing if you didn't previously state the flood nearly wiped out all of humanity. Maybe God is a metaphor for blind faith? Quote Point is.... metaphor. God did start over several times. And the basis of the Flood was one of those. The coming of Jesus was another start over. Judgement Day will just be another start over. Hopefully one that will be the last, and greatest. Is that what you're trying to do here? Start over and pretend your earlier comments no longer apply? Anyway I'm highly skeptical that a man made deity which evolved from ancient Semite polytheism is going to do anything. Quote And... You said, "The non-existent flood.". Do you still stand by that? Unless you can show "With the Flood, He wiped out almost all humanity", I stand by my statement that no such flood happened. Edited February 18, 2018 by Rlyeh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted February 18, 2018 #85 Share Posted February 18, 2018 1 hour ago, DieChecker said: There are some here who are dark. But, I do try to see what they are saying, even if they are coming at it from a rather bias angle. It isn't that they are always wrong, but that what they post is put forward in a way that is antagonistic. Purposefully so in many cases. I find that is not what Jesus meant when he said to love thy neighbor. You don't save people by going around p***ing them off and making them hate you. For myself it's when people take it too literal. I see religion as a philosophy. With stories meant to teach lessons, by you have to keep a well grounded head. As a philosophy I think the main point of Christianity is to become a better person. Not hateful and nihilistic in the sense of looking forward to the end of everything. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted February 20, 2018 #86 Share Posted February 20, 2018 On 19/02/2018 at 0:45 AM, DieChecker said: I believe it did Not Happen. However it is to be understood that God did start over several times. The Flood story is most likely a metaphor, just as almost all of the stories of Genesis are. If we are to believe the Flood was real, then we have to believe that God made people out of dirt, while the animals were made out of just thin air. And that any number of "impossible" things happened that pretty obviously didn't. Like with the Exodus, where it says 600 thousand men (not including the woman and children) left Egypt. The number if true would represent almost the entire population of Egypt at the time, given current data, so is obviously inflated. Point is.... metaphor. God did start over several times. And the basis of the Flood was one of those. The coming of Jesus was another start over. Judgement Day will just be another start over. Hopefully one that will be the last, and greatest. And... You said, "The non-existent flood.". Do you still stand by that? Gidday DC How have you been. We know it wasn't a worldwide flood. But I note you label it flood myth but that asks more questions, what about Indians Australians Polynesians etc etc. Why would God leave them the majority to make up their own gods and only concentrate on a little bunch of angry men in the middle East? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted February 20, 2018 #87 Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) On 19/02/2018 at 0:45 AM, DieChecker said: I believe it did Not Happen. However it is to be understood that God did start over several times. The Flood story is most likely a metaphor, just as almost all of the stories of Genesis are. If we are to believe the Flood was real, then we have to believe that God made people out of dirt, while the animals were made out of just thin air. And that any number of "impossible" things happened that pretty obviously didn't. Like with the Exodus, where it says 600 thousand men (not including the woman and children) left Egypt. The number if true would represent almost the entire population of Egypt at the time, given current data, so is obviously inflated. Point is.... metaphor. God did start over several times. And the basis of the Flood was one of those. The coming of Jesus was another start over. Judgement Day will just be another start over. Hopefully one that will be the last, and greatest. And... You said, "The non-existent flood.". Do you still stand by that? Double post not sure how I did that Edited February 20, 2018 by psyche101 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted February 21, 2018 #88 Share Posted February 21, 2018 (edited) On 2/18/2018 at 7:22 AM, Rlyeh said: Unless you can show "With the Flood, He wiped out almost all humanity", I stand by my statement that no such flood happened. Fair enough... But you posted... On 2/15/2018 at 7:35 AM, Rlyeh said: The non-existent flood. God isn't even very good at telling stories it would seem. Which doesn't precisely say what you said it said. If you had said, "The non-existent Flood, which wiped out all of humanity.", then I would perhaps not have desired to respond that the Flood has been suggested to be based on a real event. Since there would have been no need. Edited February 21, 2018 by DieChecker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted February 21, 2018 #89 Share Posted February 21, 2018 On 2/18/2018 at 8:31 AM, XenoFish said: For myself it's when people take it too literal. I see religion as a philosophy. With stories meant to teach lessons, by you have to keep a well grounded head. As a philosophy I think the main point of Christianity is to become a better person. Not hateful and nihilistic in the sense of looking forward to the end of everything. I think it dove tails with what Gandhi said. That he likes Jesus Christ, but not so much the current Christians. Just the most basic overview of what Jesus taught should tell people not to hate, or judge people. I mean, "Let he who is without sin toss the first stone" is one of the first Sunday School stories kids learn. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlyeh Posted February 21, 2018 #90 Share Posted February 21, 2018 3 hours ago, DieChecker said: Fair enough... But you posted... Which doesn't precisely say what you said it said. If you had said, "The non-existent Flood, which wiped out all of humanity.", then I would perhaps not have desired to respond that the Flood has been suggested to be based on a real event. Since there would have been no need. Why would I need to explicitly state this when the only flood you mentioned supposedly almost wiped out all of humanity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davros of Skaro Posted February 21, 2018 #91 Share Posted February 21, 2018 On 2/18/2018 at 6:43 AM, DieChecker said: So, if it is just another mythos, then again, there is nothing to fear... No? It is mythos, and people who believe it are enemies of reason. On 2/18/2018 at 6:43 AM, DieChecker said: If I was getting into the Magic Kingdom forever, and it was the last place that would exist anywhere? You bet I would. All you have to do is believe. Rack your brain for a week on how you sinned by acting too much like an adult. Ask Walt for forgiveness through his son Mickey. Then watch videos of parents surprising their kids with a trip to the Kingdom. When you have that feeling of elation seeing the joy of the kids... Seize on that feeling. That's the Tinkerbell Spirit cleansing, and instructing you to receive the Kingdom. On 2/18/2018 at 6:43 AM, DieChecker said: I purposefully didn't comment on the material, simply the way it was edited. It's the slides for the lecture. You should watch it..... LOL! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted February 22, 2018 #92 Share Posted February 22, 2018 On 2/20/2018 at 10:58 PM, Rlyeh said: Why would I need to explicitly state this when the only flood you mentioned supposedly almost wiped out all of humanity? How was I to know what aspect of the Flood you were going after.... That it didn't exist at all, or that it didn't wipe out humanity... I replied to the post as I interpreted it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted February 22, 2018 #93 Share Posted February 22, 2018 On 2/21/2018 at 3:27 AM, davros of skaro said: It is mythos, and people who believe it are enemies of reason. So, are all who believe in the unevidenced enemies of reason? That happens to be like 99% of humanity my friend. Doesn't make it right, but does make it normal, and accepted. Quote All you have to do is believe. Rack your brain for a week on how you sinned by acting too much like an adult. Ask Walt for forgiveness through his son Mickey. Then watch videos of parents surprising their kids with a trip to the Kingdom. When you have that feeling of elation seeing the joy of the kids... Seize on that feeling. That's the Tinkerbell Spirit cleansing, and instructing you to receive the Kingdom. Cute. Quote It's the slides for the lecture. You should watch it..... LOL! I tried. I couldn't get past the repetitive nature of the video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davros of Skaro Posted February 23, 2018 #94 Share Posted February 23, 2018 16 hours ago, DieChecker said: So, are all who believe in the unevidenced enemies of reason? When someone spouts their unreason as fact, then they are shown the evidence to the contrary they ignore then runaway, and are seen later doing the same thing. That's an enemy of reason. 16 hours ago, DieChecker said: That happens to be like 99% of humanity my friend. I agree that we as a species are fallible being prone to mistakes. The bad part is when someone wears willful ignorance like a crown of glory. The worst is the distribution of this drug. 16 hours ago, DieChecker said: Doesn't make it right, but does make it normal, and accepted. It's normal because we are still evolving, but acceptance should be weaned off of because human history is nearing a critical point (not judgement day). 16 hours ago, DieChecker said: Cute. What's the matter? Find it difficult to become childlike? All you have to do is believe... 16 hours ago, DieChecker said: I tried. I couldn't get past the repetitive nature of the video. Here's a text version that touches on the same subjects by the same person. On Prophecy as Miracle https://infidels.org/library/modern/richard_carrier/indef/4d.html 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlyeh Posted February 23, 2018 #95 Share Posted February 23, 2018 17 hours ago, DieChecker said: How was I to know what aspect of the Flood you were going after.... That it didn't exist at all, or that it didn't wipe out humanity... I replied to the post as I interpreted it. The one you described, nearly wiping out all humanity, didn't exist 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted February 23, 2018 #96 Share Posted February 23, 2018 26 minutes ago, davros of skaro said: When someone spouts their unreason as fact, then they are shown the evidence to the contrary they ignore then runaway, and are seen later doing the same thing. That's an enemy of reason. I agree that we as a species are fallible being prone to mistakes. The bad part is when someone wears willful ignorance like a crown of glory. The worst is the distribution of this drug. You assumption though is that following reason is always going to be for the best. I think the failed Soviet nations show that isn't always so. Quote It's normal because we are still evolving, but acceptance should be weaned off of because human history is nearing a critical point (not judgement day). Could be Judgement Day. Only time will tell. Unless you are a Prophet? Quote What's the matter? Find it difficult to become childlike? All you have to do is believe... I'm as childlike as I need to be, while remaining a logical, and faith embracing, adult Quote Here's a text version that touches on the same subjects by the same person. On Prophecy as Miracle https://infidels.org/library/modern/richard_carrier/indef/4d.html I'll check it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted February 23, 2018 #97 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Every Day is Judgement Day ... ~ ~ 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davros of Skaro Posted February 23, 2018 #98 Share Posted February 23, 2018 2 hours ago, DieChecker said: You assumption though is that following reason is always going to be for the best. It's reasonable that things would be for the best. 2 hours ago, DieChecker said: I think the failed Soviet nations show that isn't always so. I doubt you'd find anyone here that thinks Soviet Communism is reasonable. 2 hours ago, DieChecker said: Could be Judgement Day. Only time will tell. Unless you are a Prophet? No.... I did research. 2 hours ago, DieChecker said: I'm as childlike as I need to be, while remaining a logical, and faith embracing, adult Through pretty much the same method for the Magic Kingdom scenario. 2 hours ago, DieChecker said: I'll check it out. Yeah.... Not much of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted February 23, 2018 #99 Share Posted February 23, 2018 1 hour ago, davros of skaro said: It's reasonable that things would be for the best. I doubt you'd find anyone here that thinks Soviet Communism is reasonable. I thought you meant "reason", as in logic, not as in "common sense". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davros of Skaro Posted February 24, 2018 #100 Share Posted February 24, 2018 17 hours ago, DieChecker said: I thought you meant "reason", as in logic, not as in "common sense". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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