Putting Roswell to rest

[Vorg]

Here are a few pages from project "SIGN" that was originally marked "Secret" in Feb 1949. Project "SIGN" was a predecessor to project "BLUE BOOK." I will link to the cover sheet, and you may browse each page by clicking to the right of the center page above. It details what the objective is, of the program.

Here is one excerpt from the conclusion page of the program which is why Roswell needs to be put to rest. Keep in mind this was a SECRET document not seen for decades, which originated at Wright Patterson AFB. If there had been a crash at Roswell, this would not be in the Project "SIGN" Manuscript:

No definite and conclusive evidence is yet available that would prove or disprove the existence of these unidentified objects as real aircraft of unknown and unconventional configuration. It is unlikely that positive proof of their existence will be obtained without examination of the remains of crashed objects. Proof of non-existence is equally impossible to obtain unless a reasonable and convincing explanation is determined for each incident.

http://www.bluebookarchive.org/page.aspx?PageCode=MAXW-PBB1-5

 

 

Edited January 13, 2018 by South Alabam

[Vorg]

[Vorg]

[papageorge1]

Putting Roswell to rest

 

The only thing I predict the story won't do is rest.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

19 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

Putting Roswell to rest

 

The only thing I predict the story won't do is rest.

You’re right. Roswell has a life of its own now, Rendalsham Forest, Keksberg, the Battle of LA, the Washington Flap they might all fade away, but not Roswell. 

[Vorg]

Here's two more pages from Project "SIGN" They can be found on the same link above going to MAXW-PBB1-69 and MAXW-PBB1-70

The memo states the phenomena is real, (IE people seeing things, but not necessarily ET in nature) and also again, the lack of evidence from a crash to prove otherwise, on MAXW-PBB1-70 

 

[Vorg]

SUBJECT: AMC Opinion Concerning "Flying Discs"

TO: Commanding General

Army Air Force

Washington 25, D.C.

ATTENTION: Brig. General George Schulgen

AC/AS-2

1. As requested by AC/AS-2 there is presented below the considered opinion of this command concerning the so-called "Flying Discs." This opinion is based on interrogation report data furnished by AC/AS-2 and preliminary studies by personnel of T-2 and Aircraft Laboratory, Engineering Division T-3. This opinion was arrived at in a conference between personnel from the Air Institute of Technology, Intelligence T-2, Office, Chief of Engineering Division, and the Aircraft, Power Plant and Propeller Laboratories of Engineering Division T-3.

2. It is the opinion that:

a. The phenomenon is something real and not visionary or fictitious.
b. There are objects probably approximating the shape of a disc, of such appreciable size as to appear to be as large as man-made aircraft.
c. There is a possibility that some of the incidents may be caused by natural phenomena, such as meteors.
d. The reported operating characteristics such as extreme rates of climb, maneuverability (particularly in roll), and motion which must be considered evasive when sighted or contacted by friendly aircraft and radar, lend belief to the possibility that some of the objects are controlled either manually, automatically or remotely.
e. The apparent common description is as follows:-

(1) Metallic or light reflecting surface.
(2) Absence of trail, except in a few instances where the object apparently was operating under high performance conditions.
(3) Circular or elliptical in shape, flat on bottom and domed on top.
(4) Several reports of well kept formation flights varying from three to nine objects.
(5) Normally no associated sound, except in three instances a substantial rumbling roar was noted.
(6) Level flight speeds normally above 300 knots are estimated.

f. It is possible within the present U.S. knowledge -- provided extensive detailed development is undertaken -- to construct a piloted aircraft which has the general description of the object in sub- paragraph (e) above which would be capable of an approximate range of 7000 miles at subsonic speeds.

g. Any development in this country along the lines indicated would be extremely expensive, time consuming and at the considerable expense of current projects and therefore, if directed, should be set up independently of existing projects.

h. Due consideration must be given the following:-

(1) The possibility that these objects are of domestic origin - the product of some high security project not known to AC/AS-2 or this Command.

(2) The lack of physical evidence in the shape of crash recovered exhibits which would undeniably prove the existence of these subjects.

(3) The possibility that some foreign nation has a form of propulsion possibly nuclear, which is outside of our domestic knowledge.

3. It is recommended that:-

a. Headquarters, Army Air Forces issue a directive assigning a priority, security classification and Code name for a detailed study of this matter to include the preparation of complete sets of all available and pertinent data which will then be made available to the Army, Navy, Atomic Energy Commission, JRDB, the Air Force Scientific Advisory Group, NACA, and the RAND and NEPA projects for comments and recommendations, with a preliminary report to be forwarded within 15 days of receipt of the data and a detailed report thereafter every 30 days as the investigation develops. A complete interchange of data should be affected.

4. Awaiting a specific directive AMC will continue the investigation within its current resources in order to more closely define the nature of the phenomenon. Detailed Essential Elements of Information will be formulated immediately for transmittal thru channels.

http://www.roswellfiles.com/FOIA/twining.htm

 

Edited January 13, 2018 by South Alabam

[Dejarma]

40 minutes ago, South Alabam said:

 

 

to me the word 'UNCLASSIFIED' in the above pic looks added on top of the orig....

and again: why is the word 'SECRET' at the bottom? i smell a rat..

[Vorg]

8 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

to me the word 'UNCLASSIFIED' in the above pic looks added on top of the orig....

and again: why is the word 'SECRET' at the bottom? i smell a rat..

It was originally market SECRET, but later down graded to unclassified, and marked as such. That's known as declassification.

Declassified government records about UFOs have long existed on microfilm in the National Archives in Washington, DC. Many of them also live on websites devoted to the topic, sometimes free, sometimes not.

But UFO enthusiast John Greenewald says his database, Project Blue Book Collection, is the first to compile every single declassified document from the Blue Book project -- headquartered at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Ohio from 1947 to 1969 -- in one place for anyone to search or download for free.

 

The collection consists of files from Project Blue Book, Project Sign and Project Grudge, the names given to official investigations into unidentified flying objects by the United States military.

 

 

Source CNN:    http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/20/us/feat-air-force-ufo-project-blue-book/index.html

 

Edited January 14, 2018 by South Alabam

[Dejarma]

28 minutes ago, South Alabam said:

It was originally market SECRET, but later down graded to unclassified, and marked as such. That's known as declassification.

Oh really!? Yes of course. But why would a document need to have the words 'TOP SECRET' in big red letters stamped on them?

Every time I see so called leaked documents with  'TOP SECRET' in big red letters; I always think BS.

An analogy:

if I've got a box of drugs I don't want anyone to open so as to see what's inside, I wouldn't leave in a place for people to see it needing to stamp 'DO NOT OPEN' in big red letters on it.

I'd hide it, wouldn't I? Wouldn't you? It would be in a place where only myself & those authorized to open it would know where it is= therefore no need to stamp 'DO NOT OPEN' in big red letters.

Do you see what I mean or am I stupid do you think? Personally I'd say it's highly unlikely most of the so called leaked documents seen in places like this are legit...

P.S:

I was a member of the blackvault many years ago..... Although John does his best I think it's pointless

[Vorg]

These were US Military documents. Classified Military documents have classifications marked on them so that a "Top Secret" document is not  left laying around for anyone with a lesser security clearance to pick up and browse through. Even if marked with your Security level, it doesn't mean you are able to look at them. Classified files are on a "need to know" basis.

That is why they do marked them "classified" "Secret" "Top Secret" etc.. So they get properly stored and not left laying around.

When they are "declassified" the original classification is either marked off, or in this case, "unclassified" was added, showing declassification, even as the original classification of "Secret" remained.

These are the real files from Project sign, Project Grudge, and Project Blue book made available since 1976. They were obtained under the Freedom of Information act and compiled into this archive: http://www.bluebookarchive.org/documentation/about_bba.aspx

Edited January 14, 2018 by South Alabam

[Dejarma]

57 minutes ago, South Alabam said:

These were US Military documents.

how do you know for sure? you're only going by what:  'project blue book archive' tells you...

though they're not charging a fee to read them i guess

still one can never be really sure can one

[Vorg]

10 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

how do you know for sure? you're only going by what:  'project blue book archive' tells you...

though they're not charging a fee to read them i guess

still one can never be really sure can one

Everything he has documented can be verified through the National Archives.

 

The United States Air Force retired to the custody of the National Archives its records on Project BLUE BOOK relating to the investigations of unidentified flying objects. Project BLUE BOOK has been declassified and the records are available for examination in our research room. The project closed in 1969 and we have no information on sightings after that date.

https://www.archives.gov/research/military/air-force/ufos.html

 

The National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) is an independent agency of the United States government charged with preserving and documenting government and historical records and with increasing public access to those documents, which comprise the National Archives.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Archives_and_Records_Administration

 

The primary source of the documents in the PBBA is the set of 94 microfilm rolls, made available to the public by the National Archives and Records Service (NARS) in 1976. Since NARS is now known as the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA), the more recent acronym will be used in the remainder of this FAQ.

http://www.bluebookarchive.org/documentation/about_bba.aspx
 

 

 

 

[Dejarma]

As far as the authorities/ project blue book is concerned I doubt very much they were thinking aliens with regards to ufos-- more like Russians.

Why do so many feel project blue book was about aliens? People can be so bloody stupid at times!!!

[Vorg]

They were more concerned with national security, especially after having developed atomic weapons, and atomic power and even indicate this within the files. Many cases did occur around atomic testing sites and sensitive areas within the nations infrastructure, and this too is indicated.  I believe they were thinking Russia too, and that too was indicted within the files. But they really did not know.

They really were not sure what was going on in the air, so they started all these projects. A lot of sightings were explained away as solved due to chasing Venus or other astronomical objects, meteorites, aircraft, etc.. But the remaining cases that could not be solved were classed as unknown.

Several cases were verified through radar, air and ground personal, so these were hard to explain away.

 

Here is a compilation of the unknowns from Don Berliner:

THE UNEXPLAINED UFO CASES FROM THE PROJECT BLUE BOOK FILES

In January, 1974, I visited the U.S. Air Force Archives at Maxwell AFB, Montgomery, Ala., to review the files of Project Blue Book as the first step toward writing a book on the subject.

In a full week, I read all the "unexplained" cases in the original files and made extensive notes, including the names and other identifying information on all witnesses where given. The cooperation of the staff of the Archives was excellent, and no restrictions were placed on my work.

A few months later, the files were withdrawn from public view so they could be prepared for transfer to the National Archives in Washington, D.C. This process involved making a Xerox copy of almost 30 file drawers of material, blacking out the names and other identifiers of all witnesses, and then microfilming the censored Xerox copy. The microfilm has been available to the public at the National Archives since 1976. The original Project Blue Book files remain under lock and key at the Archives.

http://www.nicap.org/bluebook/unknowns.htm

Here is a more in depth detailed report

http://www.nidsci.org/comprehensive-catalog-1500-project-blue-book-ufo-unknowns/

 

Edited January 14, 2018 by South Alabam

[Dejarma]

3 hours ago, South Alabam said:

It was originally market SECRET, but later down graded to unclassified,

Does the word 'UNCLASSIFIED' in said picture look added to you? Yes or No?

[Vorg]

10 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

Does the word 'UNCLASSIFIED' in said picture look added to you? Yes or No?

Yes. They did add it. They stamped unclassified onto a paper copy of a microfilm file. Sort of like stamping it on top of a carbon copy that was scanned and turned into a paper file, hence the negative background.

[Dejarma]

4 minutes ago, South Alabam said:

Yes. They did add it.

how do you know this?

edit to add:

who's they? and why?

Edited January 14, 2018 by Dejarma

[Vorg]

1 minute ago, Dejarma said:

how do you know this?

Because the Air Force declassified the files and gave them to the National Archives. When a file is declassified it is supposed to be marked "unclassified" so people do not think they are still dealing with a classified file.

[Dejarma]

3 minutes ago, South Alabam said:

Because the Air Force declassified the files and gave them to the National Archives. When a file is declassified it is supposed to be marked "unclassified" so people do not think they are still dealing with a classified file.

So the file (picture) in question wasn't deemed officially unclassified then!?! So why was it released? I'm confused.............

[Vorg]

It was originally marked "SECRET". When declassifying anything they are supposed to mark out the current classification so it is not visible and stamp "unclassified" on it. They obviously missed a few, as there are hundreds within the files that are marked out.

Actually it appears that someone did scribble through it with a pen or pencil a few times, but not a marker like they should have.

Edited January 14, 2018 by South Alabam

[Dejarma]

18 minutes ago, South Alabam said:

It was originally marked "SECRET". When declassifying anything they are supposed to mark out the current classification so it is not visible and stamp "unclassified" on it. They obviously missed a few, as there are hundreds within the files that are marked out.

Well it's good those involved didn't accidentally declassify the wrong file/s- silly office people could have started another world war..

Anyways SA-- just out of interest:

why would a classified top secret file need the word 'SECRET' at the bottom of the page?

I could imagine someone who shouldn't be reading it get to the end & scream out something like: 'oh fek it! I shouldn't be reading this because I've just seen 'SECRET' after I've just read the bloody page!!- I'm dead'

ya see, I'm OK with things when they make sense; but to me this doesn't make sense!?!

Seriously: would you when typing out this (at the time) highly classified/ eyes only/ top secret file feel the need to put SECRET at the end of what you've just typed?

I don't know- maybe it's just me

Edited January 14, 2018 by Dejarma

[Vorg]

I'm retired U.S Military. That is the way it is done.The Classification goes on the top and bottom of the page. An example is below from the wikipedia  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classified_information_in_the_United_States

[Dejarma]

10 minutes ago, South Alabam said:

I'm retired U.S Military. That is the way it is done.The Classification goes on the top and bottom of the page. An example is below from the wikipedia  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classified_information_in_the_United_States

So you're putting forward something from bloody wikipedia as an example of your point!? That's rich mate- love it

[Vorg]

I know how it is done, so I used wikipedia which correctly shows how military documents are classified.  I will show you from the real source of how U.S documents are classified:  https://fas.org/sgp/othergov/dod/nimaguide.pdf

TABLE OF CONTENTS SECTION 14

 

ESSENTIAL REQUIRED MARKINGS

 There are three essential markings required on all information classified as national security

 information. The following will appear on the face of each classified document, or will be

 applied to other classified media in an appropriate manner:

 a.Classification Line (at the top and bottom);

 b.Portion Marking;

 c.Classification Block which consists of the following:

 

1)The identity, by name or personal identifier and position of the OCA;

2)The agency and office of origin,

3)Declassification instructions,

4)Reason for classification.

 

Edited January 14, 2018 by South Alabam