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trevor borocz johnson

Eye For An Eye

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trevor borocz johnson

To be Jewish is to want what's fair. Eye for an eye is old testament prophecy. Meaning if someone commits immorality you expect it to be made fair with a punishment or retribution. Jesus the Christ created another level where you are not only a moral person, but you forgive others of there immorality's even as they afflict you. This means to be christian amongst other philosophy's Jesus had. To be of the anti christ or evil means you are immoral and at the cost of others, You take away from fairness and are very unforgiving. thoughts?

Edited by trevor borocz johnson
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simplybill

Technically, " eye for an eye" is meant to illustrate that the punishment should not exceed the crime. For example, in some societies a person's hand or arm was amputated as punishment for stealing, which was too harsh of a punishment for the crime. 

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Podo
3 hours ago, simplybill said:

Technically, " eye for an eye" is meant to illustrate that the punishment should not exceed the crime. For example, in some societies a person's hand or arm was amputated as punishment for stealing, which was too harsh of a punishment for the crime. 

The problem with "an eye for an eye" is that when the crime is not a bodily injury, the equivalency is very subjective.

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simplybill
44 minutes ago, Podo said:

The problem with "an eye for an eye" is that when the crime is not a bodily injury, the equivalency is very subjective.

The Old Testament law covered a few different situations. For example, the penalty for theft was the thief was required to repay 7 times the amount that was stolen.  

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GoldenWolf
1 hour ago, simplybill said:

The Old Testament law covered a few different situations. For example, the penalty for theft was the thief was required to repay 7 times the amount that was stolen.  

For some reason I think of Cain and "avenged seven fold".

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Opus Magnus

When Cain's son Lamech says, "If Cain is avenged 7 fold, then Lamech seventy times seven fold." It makes me think of Jesus saying to forgive 7 times 70, in response to his disciples asking if 7 times was enough. But that's only 490 times. Far from infinity, it was a small number even in biblical times. If you forgive someone once a day they're out in a year and a half.

Edited by Opus Magnus
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trevor borocz johnson

Mark 11:25  "And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive them, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins.

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Opus Magnus
On 1/16/2018 at 10:14 AM, trevor borocz johnson said:

Mark 11:25  "And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive them, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins.

If only it were that easy to forgive. Because, if someone keeps doing the same thing to you, it's impossible to forgive them unless they repent.

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MauriOra
On 17/01/2018 at 7:14 AM, trevor borocz johnson said:

Mark 11:25  "And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive them, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins.

Atamarie Sir.. xx

These words are very true..

Forgiveness Frees the Self,  as well from the Emotional Inner Torment..

This leaves you Unburdened and in a Sense, Free...

My prayer...is in singing..!!

This frees my soul and uplifts me..

Expression is Beautiful..

Peace to you and yours friend..

Mo..xx

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Guyver
On 1/15/2018 at 9:13 AM, trevor borocz johnson said:

To be Jewish is to want what's fair. Eye for an eye is old testament prophecy. Meaning if someone commits immorality you expect it to be made fair with a punishment or retribution. Jesus the Christ created another level where you are not only a moral person, but you forgive others of there immorality's even as they afflict you. This means to be christian amongst other philosophy's Jesus had. To be of the anti christ or evil means you are immoral and at the cost of others, You take away from fairness and are very unforgiving. thoughts?

My thoughts are that you have your facts all confused.  Eye for an eye retribution is not an Old Testament prophecy; it was an actual practice that originated with the Babylonians.  The earliest record of it is found in the Code of Hammurabi.  It was given as a law in the Torah, and thus practiced by the Jews, some 1200 years after its origination; if memory serves.

As far as whatever Jesus spin you wish to use; that's your choice.  Certainly, using Jesus words on forgiveness as an example; you are right and Christians should be the most forgiving of people.  But, remember that the words of the Apostle Paul make up the vast majority of the New Testament and he had a bit of a different twist on it.  He was more along the lines of Jesus' shake the dust off your feet mentality in places.  So what I'm saying is that insofar as Evangelical Christians are concerned....the words of Jesus aren't necessarily the pre-eminent source of doctrine in many cases.  Which is an interesting thing in and of itself.  

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Illyrius
On 18. 01. 2018. at 5:15 AM, Opus Magnus said:

If only it were that easy to forgive. Because, if someone keeps doing the same thing to you, it's impossible to forgive them unless they repent.

Yes. It would be quite foolish to do so.

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trevor borocz johnson
On 1/17/2018 at 11:15 PM, Opus Magnus said:

If only it were that easy to forgive. Because, if someone keeps doing the same thing to you, it's impossible to forgive them unless they repent.

well treat others the way you want to be treated. If a person afflicts you set the example for him so he can learn.

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Illyrius
3 minutes ago, trevor borocz johnson said:

well treat others the way you want to be treated. If a person afflicts you set the example for him so he can learn.

Some people don't want to learn. Eye for an eye works good in such cases.

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trevor borocz johnson
9 minutes ago, Mr. Argon said:

Some people don't want to learn. Eye for an eye works good in such cases.

Yes it is natural and instinctive to act this way, but let me give you this example: killing. Animals kill each other all day everyday without consequence. Its natural. But the lord asks us to overcome this nature. In the same way we are expected to abide to the other rules of morality. Another example is eating bugs. In levitcus the lord commands Moses not to eat any swarming thing. Again natural but man is bigger then all the other animals in the world, there has now in the past 10,000 years and especially the last two hundred been big leaps between man and the animal kingdom.

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MauriOra
19 minutes ago, trevor borocz johnson said:

well treat others the way you want to be treated. If a person afflicts you set the example for him so he can learn.

Yes..

Lead by example..

I'd like to say this also, If someone has hurt us once or maybe even twice, and we have forgiven them, this is Admirable..

Any more than this, then we might have to take a look at ourselves and to the reason, Why we allow this..

The responsibility to take care of our Self is Up to us..

Mo..xx

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Illyrius
1 minute ago, trevor borocz johnson said:

Yes it is natural and instinctive to act this way, but let me give you this example: killing. Animals kill each other all day everyday without consequence. Its natural. But the lord asks us to overcome this nature. In the same way we are expected to abide to the other rules of morality. Another example is eating bugs. In levitcus the lord commands Moses not to eat any swarming thing. Again natural but man is bigger then all the other animals in the world, there has now in the past 10,000 years and especially the last two hundred been big leaps between man and the animal kingdom.

Human is capable of nobility and at the same time is the most cruel being on this planet. I say if someone persists in his folly - an eye for an eye is satisfactory. If a person is capable of guilt and repentance, forgiveness is the way.

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MauriOra
4 minutes ago, Mr. Argon said:

Human is capable of nobility and at the same time is the most cruel being on this planet. I say if someone persists in his folly - an eye for an eye is satisfactory. If a person is capable of guilt and repentance, forgiveness is the way.

Atamarie Mr Argon..

Yes ...

Humans are capable of Nobility, and at the Same time Monsters.

I Do not agree with an Eye for an Eye, I do believe in a Higher Justice..

People, have reasons to why they do what they do, Environment, Injustice, Upbringing, Religion, Belief system, so on and so forth...

I am not Condoning Wrongful Actions, but I do try to see the reasons behind the Behaviour..

I Feel...the Eye for an Eye, scenario, continues the Cycle of Violence and changes... Nothing..

Peace to you My friend.. xx

Mo..xx

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trevor borocz johnson
3 minutes ago, Mr. Argon said:

Human is capable of nobility and at the same time is the most cruel being on this planet. I say if someone persists in his folly - an eye for an eye is satisfactory. If a person is capable of guilt and repentance, forgiveness is the way.

Christian strength is shown through suffering and attests to your ability to handle it. I certainly don't disagree with you if you want whats fair. Its a hard world. your not a bad person if you want whats fair. And I think the most people would probably fall somewhere in this region.

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Illyrius
8 minutes ago, trevor borocz johnson said:

Christian strength is shown through suffering and attests to your ability to handle it. I certainly don't disagree with you if you want whats fair. Its a hard world. your not a bad person if you want whats fair. And I think the most people would probably fall somewhere in this region.

Well said.

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MauriOra
4 minutes ago, trevor borocz johnson said:

Strength is shown through suffering and attests to your ability to handle it

Absolutely..

I have had many Trials and Tribulation's in my Life..

Through the suffering and pain I have come out Stronger then ever..

On reflection of my journey, I realise, suffering has been my greatest teacher and for these tests....I am most humbly grateful..

When you know what pain is, You come to realise how Sweet Joy can be, and You enjoy these precious moments with more appreciation....

Life is what you make of it...

Peace to you my friend..

Mo..xx

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Illyrius
19 minutes ago, MauriOra said:

I Feel...the Eye for an Eye, scenario, continues the Cycle of Violence and changes... Nothing..

This is also correct. The tragedy of the world is that people which are basically decent and benevolent often become enemies because they are hurt and don't understand each others, and monsters which are manipulative, greedy and selfish thrive on the pain of this people.

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MauriOra
1 minute ago, Mr. Argon said:

This is also correct. The tragedy of the world is that people which are basically decent and benevolent often become enemies because they are hurt and don't understand each others, and monsters which are manipulative, greedy and selfish thrive on the pain of this people.

Yes..

Very true...

I know, I have seen some Manipulative Monsters in my time...

And also seen the victims of this disgusting mentality..

In these times I was not strong enough in me, to stand up..

Now..

I Absolutely would..To see injustice and do nothing, allows the Monsters more Power and the victims of this .....More hell...

Everyone Needs a Protector..

So I help where I can...

Peace my friend..xx

Mo..xx

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Illyrius
10 minutes ago, MauriOra said:

Yes..

Very true...

I know, I have seen some Manipulative Monsters in my time...

And also seen the victims of this disgusting mentality..

In these times I was not strong enough in me, to stand up..

Now..

I Absolutely would..To see injustice and do nothing, allows the Monsters more Power and the victims of this .....More hell...

Everyone Needs a Protector..

So I help where I can...

Peace my friend..xx

Mo..xx

Yes..

I was more refering to wars - and war profiteers. Divide and Conquer principle - the motto of Roman Empire.

Edited by Mr. Argon
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MauriOra
3 minutes ago, Mr. Argon said:

Yes..

I was more refering to wars - and war profiteers. Divide and Conquer principle - the motto of Roman Empire.

LOOOLL!!!...

Oooops...My bad..lols..

I Know about the Systematic Divide and Conquer Principle..

And in this Arena I Absolutely Smash Them..!!!

Especially in my Land..

Aotearoa NZ...

Mo..xx

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GoldenWolf
9 hours ago, Mr. Argon said:

Some people don't want to learn. Eye for an eye works good in such cases.

No, put them in a mental asylum.

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