New California Declares Independence

[RoofGardener]

36 minutes ago, skliss said:

Maybe they should call themselves... "Smarter California" or "Normal California".... 

Calibornagainia ?

[Gromdor]

2 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Well, this all seems a bit silly.

According to the US Constitution - https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/articleiv - the proposed new state could not be created without both the permission of Congress (feasible), and the State of California legislature. .

I can't see the California State Legislature allowing this to happen ?

For that matter, do a significant number of Californians (in the proposed new 'state') even support this idea, or is the whole thing just a bunch of cranks in a bar  ?

True about the Constitution bit.  A bunch of cranks in a bar is all it takes to start a ball rolling for the second half.  I'm not too worried about it happening though.  Every other election cycle, it goes from splitting the state to ceding from the Union.  It does make for an amusing discussion though. 

[+OverSword]

11 hours ago, ChaosRose said:

Why do you shroud all your sources? 

If I can't tell what it is, I'm not clicking on it. 

If you're talking about me then the source of this story is CBS and that's where the link goes.

[+OverSword]

10 hours ago, ChaosRose said:

We all know that Russian trolls started this crap. 

If anyone's gobbling it up, they're stupid for doing so.

Divided we fall, folks.

That's the plan. 

Says the person that refuses to accept the legally elected president as legitimate.  How would this be Russian trolls?  The New California movement feels that they are misrepresented and misgoverned and want to be the 51st state.  This is not without precedent, West Virginia came into existence in much the same way. 

[+OverSword]

9 hours ago, ChaosRose said:

It does have to do with Russian trolls trying to divide the nation.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjUoOuwud7YAhUM7qwKHfT5DQEQFggvMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.com%2Fnews%2Fblogs-trending-41853131&usg=AOvVaw2PGuLLEKFSMDEQob5oZYsk

This is not about an independent CA ChaosRose, two completely unrelated stories.

[+OverSword]

7 hours ago, pallidin said:

"New California" means a "thug" run state, whereby they can more effectively spread drugs, crime and gangs within California and around the rest of the US.

 

 

What????  Please explain or give a link to evidence.  You're sounding crazy.

[+OverSword]

7 hours ago, RAyMO said:

This highlights a problem with democracy - as did Brexit.

You have a political Unit which operates on a democratic basis -

If all subsets within the unit like the results of a democratic exercise then the democracy is good and the political unit is stable

If some subsets do not like the political result - then some will deem that the democracy is suspect and / or the political unit is unstable - we then get advocators for change and simultaneously champions of the status quo.

On a very real issue - at the moment where I live the current political unit, is deemed acceptable because the democratic result meets the wishes of the majority. Naturally the majority hail the current democracy and political unit.  But there may come a time, which may be hastened by current political exercises, when the political result may not please the current majority - in other words they become a minority. When that happens those that historically held the political majority will no longer like the political result - they will start advocating change - either in the form of democracy or the designation of the political unit.

In other words democracy within an existing political unit is only deemed as good - when it gives subsets the results they want.

I don't think this is exactly the case.  The rural counties of California have historically been conservative and republican but the majority of the population of the state lives in only a few counties where the large cities are.  The people that live hundreds and hundreds of miles from the city don't feel that their interests have been represented accurately except maybe when Ronald Reagan was governor.

See this map of my state below?  The county labeled as King has most of the population of the state and is extremely democratic and liberal, the rest of the state is far more conservative and is constantly frustrated politically and feel (correctly) that the city of Seattle and surrounding suburbs run the entire state and hate that fact.  If this New California thing actually happens I predict the same for Washington and Oregon, both liberal states with most of the actual land being held by conservatives.

[+OverSword]

4 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Well, this all seems a bit silly.

According to the US Constitution - https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/articleiv - the proposed new state could not be created without both the permission of Congress (feasible), and the State of California legislature. .

I can't see the California State Legislature allowing this to happen ?

For that matter, do a significant number of Californians (in the proposed new 'state') even support this idea, or is the whole thing just a bunch of cranks in a bar  ?

I would be surprised if the majority of the effected counties don't like this idea.

[RAyMO]

thanks for that detail OS. I have some questions - but rather than hassle you with questions I can find the answers to on Google I will do a bit of research and come back with thoughts.

 

ETA for what they are worth

Edited January 17, 2018 by RAyMO

[keithisco]

I think this is symptomatic of the divide between Rural and Urban areas in a lot of nation states these days. Increasingly you find larger urban areas becoming more far-left Liberal Luvvie homelands and also holding most of the political clout and administration of Financial Resources for the entire State or Nation.

There is a real disconnect between understanding the needs of rural communities and the , invariably, left-wing urbanites promoting a political agenda that fails to recognise or even understand those needs.

I understand fully where this "New California" push is coming from and it should serve as something of a wake-up call for the Urbanites.  

[aztek]

yea,pretty much, new york city is prbly one of the few, if not the only liberal part of much much larger new york state.

just like people living in nyc, or urban California, for the large part they do not care about the rest of the state,  to them it is not a wake up call, but a nuisance, 

Edited January 17, 2018 by aztek

[griss47]

42 minutes ago, aztek said:

yea,pretty much, new york city is prbly one of the few, if not the only liberal part of much much larger new york state.

just like people living in nyc, or urban California, for the large part they do not care about the rest of the state,  to them it is not a wake up call, but a nuisance, 

Illinois/Chicago is much the same from discussions I've had with friends living in Illinois.

[RavenHawk]

I think that what is being labeled "New California" should remain California and Progressive territory should take the name "Aztlan".  What liberal can't get behind that?  We can send all the illegals and homeless there and build the wall around them.

[aztek]

might as well call things what they are, not progressive but regressive territory should  be called New Sodom  or New Gomorrah, that is basically what it is.  

Edited January 17, 2018 by aztek

[RavenHawk]

That's giving sodomy a bad name.

[RavenHawk]

Fremont should have left when ordered to in 1846.

[Almighty Evan]

15 hours ago, DarkHunter said:

I am curious though in how you connected this entire thing to Russian trolls trying to divide the nation, especially divide the nation since New California wants to stay in the union and be the 51 state.

It's the knee-jerk go-to retort in a person's world when they have nothing left with which to attack the duly elected President of the United States because he's not a Democrat.

[Farmer77]

On ‎1‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 2:06 AM, DarkHunter said:

I am curious though in how you connected this entire thing to Russian trolls trying to divide the nation, especially divide the nation since New California wants to stay in the union and be the 51 state.

 Putin is apparently very fond of one Igor Panarin who published a map along with his vision of what a collapsed and divided America would look like. There are many who think that is what the goal of stoking tensions here is all about. 

[Farmer77]

On ‎1‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 5:51 PM, Almighty Evan said:

It's the knee-jerk go-to retort in a person's world when they have nothing left with which to attack the duly elected President of the United States because he's not a Democrat.

Or theres valid reasoning , ya know whatever fact or "alternative fact" fits you better 

Putin is apparently very fond of one Igor Panarin who published a map along with his vision of what a collapsed and divided America would look like. There are many who think that is what the goal of stoking tensions here is all about. 

[Farmer77]

California is an interesting place. 

Registered independents may soon outnumber Republicans on California’s voter rolls

 

Quote

Just shy of a quarter of the state’s voters now forgo any party label, registering as “no party preference,” a slight increase from last year. If the trend continues, as expected, California’s pool of independent voters could soon surpass the number of Republicans in the state.

Democrats account for 45% of California’s registered voters, giving the party a 19 percentage point advantage over the GOP, the state registration figures show.

The Democratic Party’s slice of the electorate in non-presidential election cycles has remained relatively stagnant for two decades, while the Republican Party’s registration slipped by 10 percentage points.

 

[DarkHunter]

2 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

 Putin is apparently very fond of one Igor Panarin who published a map along with his vision of what a collapsed and divided America would look like. There are many who think that is what the goal of stoking tensions here is all about. 

So your entire connection between California as a state being broken up into smaller states all still being within the union of the United States of America and Russian trolls trying to divide America is a claim that Putin just happens to be fond of a Russian academic that has posted a map of what he believes a Balkanized America would look like based off of geopolitical views.  

Even then there is still the massive issues in your proposition, the first being that the suggestion of breaking up California keeps all parts of it in the union and that since California has become a state there has been at least 12 serious attempts at breaking California up into multiple smaller states some of which nearly succeeded.

[Farmer77]

2 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

So your entire connection between California as a state being broken up into smaller states all still being within the union of the United States of America and Russian trolls trying to divide America is a claim that Putin just happens to be fond of a Russian academic that has posted a map of what he believes a Balkanized America would look like based off of geopolitical views.  

Even then there is still the massive issues in your proposition, the first being that the suggestion of breaking up California keeps all parts of it in the union and that since California has become a state there has been at least 12 serious attempts at breaking California up into multiple smaller states some of which nearly succeeded.

Its not my "proposition" , nor do I believe its actually anyone's that this is happening solely because of any Russians.

That said ChaosRose made an accurate point about this potentially playing into what the Russians allegedly envision as America's future. Some Trump supporter , as is becoming more and more common, decided to attack her for making that quite valid point without actually understanding what it was she was saying.

I was simply pointing out why ChaosRose was saying what she did. 

Thanks for the education though, I say go State of Jefferson! 

[+and-then]

On 1/17/2018 at 2:44 AM, preacherman76 said:

This is the same in my home state of New York. Damn near the entire state votes conservative accept the city, and a few smaller cities. 

Georgia is close to having the same situation because of Atlanta.  

[+Hammerclaw]

On ‎1‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 3:55 PM, OverSword said:

Source

I won't be hugely surprised if this actually happens.

I could easily see every county east of the Cascade Mountain range doing the same thing in my state of Washington.  All of the political decisions of my state are dictated from the very liberal and more populous western part of the state to the utter disgust of the overwhelmingly conservative rural eastern part.

So the NCR is born! I wonder what the "Fallout" will be?

[+Hammerclaw]

On ‎1‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 7:15 AM, RoofGardener said:

Calibornagainia ?

 

On ‎1‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 7:15 AM, RoofGardener said:

Calibornagainia ?

New California Republic.