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Marion Jenis

Was the black stone in the Kaaba ever white?

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Marion Jenis

The black stone in the side of the Kaaba, apparently a meteorite, must be familiar to everyone who has visited the Kaaba online. An image search will also bring up innumerable pictures of pilgrims to Mecca who are kissing the stone while circumambulating the Kaaba. The tradition of kissing the stone is thought to have begun with Muhammad himself. According to a pious legend that is still believed, the stone was once white but became black over time as it absorbed humanity's sins. It fell from heaven to the site where Muhammad and his son Ismail built the Kaaba. Science cannot validate or contradict the claim that the stone was once white without analyzing a sample of it---something which will never occur as long as it is felt to be sacred. But a scientific analysis of the matter of the meteorite is not necessary. Centuries before the birth of Islam classical writers clearly identified the stone at Mecca as one of a pair. The other member of the pair fell to Mr. Ida in Phrygia (Anatolia or Turkey) where it was worshiped as an embodiment of Kybele or Cybele, the Mother of the Gods. Some ancient writers even claimed that there was only one stone that must have been taken from Phrygia to Arabia---but that idea is surely wrong, for we know as a matter of historical fact that the Idean stone was taken to Rome during the Punic wars. But the ancient writers all agree that the Idean stone had always been black.

The real question is not what color the stone in the Kaaba was when it fell to the earth, but if it embodied a goddess in ancient Arabia, and if so what became of that goddess. The answer to the first part of that question is yes, there was a goddess named Al'lat and the Kaaba was fundamentally her shrine, despite the presence of 360 idols who shared the building with her. The second part of the question is answered by a recurring vision that I have, that she is buried beneath the Kaaba. The act of kissing the sacred stone is an unintended acknowledgment of her presence in Islam. The shape of the silver mounting of the stone is suggestive of a certain part of female anatomy. Such things cannot be mentioned in Islam but are openly discussed in Hinduism, where the black stone with its mounting would be called a Yoni. The goddess involved would be Parvati or Kali. Some commentators make a claim that is sure to infuriate many Muslims, that Allah was once Hubal, a moon god to whom the Kaaba belonged. It may be correct to say that Hubal was the chief god of the Kaaba before the Prophet destroyed the idols that the building housed---but it is not necessary to identify him with Allah.

A picture of the polytheism that prevailed at the Kaaba before Muhammad's reforms is becoming apparent. Many of the calendars in use in "pagan" times---including the prechristian calendar of Rome---featured a year of 360 days plus 5. The 360 days were profane, but the 5 intercalated days were sacred. The 360 minor deities at the Kaaba would have been "day gods", somewhat like the patron saints that used to be traditional in Roman Catholicism. Hubal and Al'lat would have been the primary gods of the shrine. Hubal was a moon god and Al'lat was an earth goddess to whom the date palm was sacred. Dates were her gift to mankind and a sign of her sweet nature.

 

Blackstone.jpg

Edited by Marion Jenis
clarification

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DirtyDocMartens

It's hard to imagine a chunk of iron blasting through the earth's atmosphere being white after it slams into the ground.  I'm just a biologist/art historian, though, and don't know much about stuff like that. 

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Quaentum

Maybe the stone was white hot from friction and finally cooled to it's present color.   It wouldn't be the first time something natural had been turned into a story with religious implications.

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and then

It's a very interesting history lesson.  My guess is that there aren't any white meteorites but I stand to be corrected.  As for the actions of humanity making it black, no.

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Piney

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaaba

It might not be a meteor but it was probably the sacred stone of Allat. The goddess the Muslims made into "God".

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Windowpane
On 1/19/2018 at 6:45 PM, Piney said:

 

According to that Wiki, the present structure is of granite.

See also:

 

Quote

 

The sanctuary at Mekka, in the time of Muhammad, merely consisted of a small roofless enclosure formed by four walls a little higher than a man, accordining to Ibn Hishām, or about 9 cubits (say 4·50 m.) according to Azraqī, built of rough stone laid dry. It was oblong in shape ...  (K. A. C. Creswell,1951 Archaeologia, Volume 94, IV.—The Ka'ba in A.D. 608 pp. 97-102)

 

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hetrodoxly

There's no evidence Mecca existed before the 700s even the description of it in the Quran doesn't tally with what it looks like, the blackstone looks like a 'Shiva Lingam' it's set in a silver vagina.

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youseriousbro

You serious, bro? If you know anything about Islam, you should know that the main central premise of Islam that everything revolves around is the oneness of God. Al'lat is different from Allah in arabic. Literally ilah translates as lower-case "god"/ deity that is worshipped. Just cause it sounds similar in English doesn't prove your point. Secondly, yes, there were idols that were worshipped in the Kaabah before Muhammed's time. That is exactly the point! Have you even studied Islam? I feel you are making Islam what you want it to be and not acknowledging what it actually is, whether you agree or not, it doesn't matter, at least stick to the facts: Prophet Muhammed, the final prophet for humanity, came to rid of idol worship and to rid of associating partners to God. All the idols were removed in his time, just like when Prophet Abraham destroyed the idols his people worshipped and had placed near the Kaabah. In Islam, we are not able to represent God in any form, anyone who does so is fooling themselves. No one can honestly claim they have seen God. That's why Islam is the most logical and pure monotheistic theology I've ever come across. 

 

Also to be clear: We do NOT worship this stone. That would be treason in islam.

  • Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) once kissed the Hajar al-Aswad and said, “I know well that you are just a stone that can do neither good nor harm. Had I not seen the Prophet (ﷺ) kiss you, I would not have done so.” Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) made the statement because there were many people who were newly converted to Islam and he did not want them to get the impression that Muslims also revered stones as the Arabs revered and worshipped stone idols during the Period of Ignorance (Muslims commonly call the era before Islam arrived, the age of Jahilliyah, the age of "Ignorance". So this idol claim you make really makes no sense, because we clearly acknowledge it). 

We revere it and we adore it, as we believe this stone is originally from Paradise. This stone is not what we circle the Kaabah for. We worship God alone! We don't even worship Prophet Muhammed. The Kaabah is just a central point where we direct our prayers, just like the sun is for the planets, or the nucleus for the electrons in an atom. It is quite a similar site isn't it, if you think about it! 

In terms of its whiteness, we believe it was originally white, when it was handed to Prophet Abraham by archangel Gabriel. And Prophet Abraham predates Prophet Muhammed, by 1000s of years from what I know. I mean, many things change over 1000s of year. Really, is that hard to believe?  I mean, even the Statue of Liberty is green now after being exposed to oxygen in the air. It was originally of a copper color. 

Quotes from the Quran:

In the name of God/ Allah, the Most Merciful, the Most Beneficent:

Every Prophet taught His people the same lesson:

“Indeed, We sent Nuh (Noah) to his people, and he said: “O my people! Worship Allah! You have no other Ilah (God) but Him. Certainly, I fear for you the torment of a Great Day!” [Al-A’raf 7: 59]

“And verily, We have sent among every Ummah (community, nation) a Messenger (proclaiming): “Worship Allah (Alone), and avoid (or keep away from) all false deities” Then of them were some whom Allah guided and of them were some upon whom the straying justified. So travel through the land and see what the end of those who denied (the truth) was.” [An-Nahl 16:36]

The basis of our Creation is to worship Allah:

“And I (Allah) created not the jinn and mankind except that they should worship Me (Alone).” [Az-Zariyat 51:56]

“And your Lord has decreed that you worship none but Him…” [Al-Isra’ 17:23]

“Say (O Muhammad P.B.U.H): “Come, I will recite what your Lord has prohibited you from: Join not anything in worship with Him….” [Al-An’am 6:151]

Every Muslim in His Five Prayers confirms this Belief:

“You (Alone) we worship, and You (Alone) we ask for help (for each and everything)” [Al-Fatihah 1:5]

 

 “Has he made the Alihah (gods) (all) into One Ilah (God – Allah). Verily, this is a curious thing!” [Surah Sad 38:5]

“That is Allah, your Lord!. There is no god but He, the Creator of all things. Then worship Him, and He has the power to dispose of all affairs” [Al-An’am 6:102]

 

“This is the creation of Allah. So show Me that which those (whom you worship) besides Him have created. Nay, the Zalimun (polytheists, wrongdoers and those who do not believe in the Oneness of Allah) are in plain error.” [Luqman 31:11]

Edited by youseriousbro
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Ove

The stone was never white, it does not absorb humanity's sins. 

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Sir Wearer of Hats

But it’s an interesting story - does it have a finite capacity for sin? What happens when it can’t absorb anymore?

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Ove
2 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

But it’s an interesting story - does it have a finite capacity for sin? What happens when it can’t absorb anymore?

The black stone in the black temple (House of Allah) is obviously a replacement for "the Lamb of God" who takes away the sin of the world (John 1:29)

 

1252.jpg

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kartikg
4 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

But it’s an interesting story - does it have a finite capacity for sin? What happens when it can’t absorb anymore?

So basically I can commit any sin and sleep peaceful knowing that stone will absorb my sins? 

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Ove

The black temple has only three pillars. What's the altar for ? sacrifice ?

 

 

kaaba.gif

Edited by Ove

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Sir Wearer of Hats
8 hours ago, Ove said:

The black stone in the black temple (House of Allah) is obviously a replacement for "the Lamb of God" who takes away the sin of the world (John 1:29)

 

1252.jpg

Can you imagine the planning meeting that resulted in God using a rock to ameliorate the world’s sins?

God: right, we tried to stop them sinning by sending Jesus. All they did was nail him to a tree. What’s the next plan?

Angel Jeremy raises his hand.

God: No. We’ve been over this Jeremy, we are not using s magic sin absorbing rock. Humanity is dim, but not thst gullible.

Angel Anselem: They brought the whole flat earth bit, snd we came up with thst after the last Christmas Party.

God: fine. FINE. Jeremy, do the magic rock thing. But not with the Jews. Or the Greeks, all they’ll do is turn it into a statue.

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Ove

 

Believe it or not, this black temple with this black rock is something muslims all over the world, turn to when they pray. If it only were a diamond, one could somehow understand it? 

On the other hand, the rock can be viewed upon as a relic left by Muhammad, people touching it get healed or something?

 

 

xXXXXXXX.jpg

Edited by Ove

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Sir Wearer of Hats
20 minutes ago, Ove said:

 

Believe it or not, this black temple with this black rock is something muslims all over the world, turn to when they pray. If it only were a diamond, one could somehow understand it? 

On the other hand, the rock can be viewed upon as a relic left by Muhammad

 

 

I do believe it, what I find odd is why you seem so astounded by it.

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Ove
4 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

I do believe it, what I find odd is why you seem so astounded by it.

Believing in the magic powers of some stone in a temple, sounds so very primitive. How can something like this satisfy that many people in the 21 century ?

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Sir Wearer of Hats
33 minutes ago, Ove said:

Believing in the magic powers of some stone in a temple, sounds so very primitive. How can something like this satisfy that many people in the 21 century ?

Mate, once a week I ritually eat God. 

Im probably the last fella who should be calling someone’s beliefs primitive, but conversely my beliefs give me an insight - it’s a metaphor used to help bridge man and God/Allah/Betty White.

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danydandan
25 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Mate, once a week I ritually eat God. 

Im probably the last fella who should be calling someone’s beliefs primitive, but conversely my beliefs give me an insight - it’s a metaphor used to help bridge man and God/Allah/Betty White.

Pffft Betty White.

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Sir Wearer of Hats
3 minutes ago, danydandan said:

Pffft Betty White.

You DOUBT Betty White?

HERETIC.

BLASPHEMER.

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danydandan
26 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

You DOUBT Betty White?

HERETIC.

BLASPHEMER.

May I be struck down by the grace of Betty.

Actually I don't know who Betty White is, she sounds like a racist.

Edited by danydandan
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Sir Wearer of Hats
7 minutes ago, danydandan said:

May I be struck down by the grace of Betty.

Actually I don't know who Betty White is, she sounds like a racist.

Steady on old chap.

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Ove
1 hour ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Mate, once a week I ritually eat God. 

Im probably the last fella who should be calling someone’s beliefs primitive, but conversely my beliefs give me an insight - it’s a metaphor used to help bridge man and God/Allah/Betty White.

Eating and satisfaction goes hand in hand :) I eat the same food as you, makes me feel very good, you are what you eat :)

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danydandan
2 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Steady on old chap.

Just Googled her, yeah actually I duckduckgoed her weird how Google now means search anyways, I seen her in a few things. Know absolutely nothing regarding her personal life other than you crazy America's hold in the same esteem as God.

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Sir Wearer of Hats
3 minutes ago, danydandan said:

Just Googled her, yeah actually I duckduckgoed her weird how Google now means search anyways, I seen her in a few things. Know absolutely nothing regarding her personal life other than you crazy America's hold in the same esteem as God.

I’m Australian, you Welsh Fruitcake!

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