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OverSword

FISA memo set to end collusion investigation

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ExpandMyMind
32 minutes ago, Paranormal Panther said:

I said "probably guaranteed". Let's face it. She had to be a particularly odious candidate to lose to an obnoxious and offensive personality like Trump. Maybe it really *was* just her.

Anyone can win if enough of their voters can relate to the candidate. Take from that what you will.

Edited by ExpandMyMind
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Uncle Sam

House Intelligence Committee investigation Peter Stryok...
 

 

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Tiggs
1 hour ago, Paranormal Panther said:

Why? Have you looked at the history of our alphabet agencies? I believe that most members, of the community, are good and patriotic people. I place no blind faith in their employers, though.

Pretty sure that's what I said.

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Merc14
4 hours ago, Tiggs said:

I think

that the guy whose unique selling point is his access to some of the best sources of Russian insider intel in the world, probably asked his sources.

Yeah, ok.  SO far he has handed over a dosssier which is a cmpltee load of rubbish and been fired (yea, I said it again) by the FBI and fled the US.  Sounds like a helluva resume.

Quote

Let me know when you find a witness reliable enough for the DOJ to put in front of a judge.

Me?  Why would I find a witness, I'm not special agent at the FBI.  No that will be teh Special Prosecutor that will be appointed when the IG drops his report.

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RavenHawk
5 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Why would they have access to inside information from the Trump campaign as it relates to the Russia investigation?

You brought up the WH (i.e. post campaign).  Those daily leaks came from Obama holdovers and the deep state that was still wiretapping Trump, i.e. the WH.  And Obama enabled it when he signed EO 12333 (new version) in Dec 2016.

 

Not to beat a dead equine , I just find this mantra that "if there were evidence we would have seen it by now" interesting. I imagine this is a GOP talking point hammered home by every talking head from Levin in the AM to Hannity at night, but cant swear to it. 

I doubt it is a talking point.  It is just common sense.  If this is true, the sooner Trump is removed from office, the better it will be for the security of this nation.  Every day it is delayed, the more damage is done to this nation.  This is not some RICO investigation.  Time is of the essence.  Although admittedly, even if that was true, it will never come close to the damage Obama caused this nation.

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Tiggs
Just now, Merc14 said:

Yeah, ok.  SO far he has handed over a dosssier which is a cmpltee load of rubbish and been fired (yea, I said it again) by the FBI and fled the US.  Sounds like a helluva resume.

He lives in England. He was never fired. There's no evidence that anything of significance within the dossier is false.
 

Just now, Merc14 said:

Me?  Why would I find a witness, I'm not special agent at the FBI.  No that will be teh Special Prosecutor that will be appointed when the IG drops his report.

I'm sure you'll hear about it if they ever do manage to find one, though.

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Lilly

Just a very important point here. In the United States one does not function with the thinking that the dossier has to be proven false. No, the allegations in the dossier have to be proven to be truthful.

The burden of proof lies with those putting forth the claim of wrong doing. You know, innocent until proven guilty. 

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Merc14
32 minutes ago, Tiggs said:

He lives in England. He was never fired. There's no evidence that anything of significance within the dossier is false.

Oh please!  The FBI agreed to pay him  to continue his work until then they learned he had broken their agreement by leaking to the press.,  They subsequently canceled the agreement and cut off any further work as he is considered wholly unreliable.  I shortened all that to "he was fired", get over it.  After being fired and seeing the resultant furor over his phony dossier he went into hiding until abruptly left the country so he wopuldn't have to testify.  He is avoiding giving any testimony in England as well.  As far as the dossier being true, well that is laughable.  The FBI couldn't verify any of the pertinent facts so iyt is worthless as a piece of evidence....except to you I guess.

Quote

I'm sure you'll hear about it if they ever do manage to find one, though.

I'm sure I will.

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Tiggs
14 minutes ago, Merc14 said:

Oh please!  The FBI agreed to pay him  to continue his work until then they learned he had broken their agreement by leaking to the press.,  They subsequently canceled the agreement and cut off any further work as he is considered wholly unreliable.  I shortened all that to "he was fired", get over it. 

Steele never signed an agreement with the FBI, let alone one that would stop him speaking to the press.
 

14 minutes ago, Merc14 said:

After being fired and seeing the resultant furor over his phony dossier he went into hiding until abruptly left the country so he wopuldn't have to testify. 

Steele returned home to England long before the Buzzfeed story which named him even dropped.

You'll perhaps note that he's voluntarily spoken to Mueller's team, too.
 

14 minutes ago, Merc14 said:

He is avoiding giving any testimony in England as well.

Steele's lawyers have told the court that forcing his testimony would reveal sources and methods damaging to the UK's national security. The UK Government have dispatched their own lawyers to the court, apparently in agreement.
 

14 minutes ago, Merc14 said:

As far as the dossier being true, well that is laughable.  The FBI couldn't verify any of the pertinent facts

That you're currently aware of.

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Astra.

Well IMHO, I hope eventually that the follow up memo will be released to the public (even if that means that it may need some tweaking). Especially after all of the lead up, fanfare, and drama that was involved in releasing the Nunes memo. Under the circumstances, I think it's only fair that the general public get to view this possible forthcoming material as well. 

 

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Tiggs
1 hour ago, Lilly said:

Just a very important point here. In the United States one does not function with the thinking that the dossier has to be proven false. No, the allegations in the dossier have to be proven to be truthful.

The burden of proof lies with those putting forth the claim of wrong doing. You know, innocent until proven guilty. 

Innocent until proven guilty applies both ways.

I'm defending Steele from entirely unevidenced accusations of producing a "Fake Dossier", a "Dodgy Dossier", or it's latest incarnation -- "a forgery fed to him by Evil Hillary".
 

1 hour ago, Lilly said:

The burden of proof lies with those putting forth the claim of wrong doing. You know, innocent until proven guilty. 


Amen.

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acidhead
7 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

 

I know that he sold a condo for nearly $100m to a Russian billionaire who immediately demolished the property. That sounds totally on the up-and-up.

 

 

Who told you Trump sold a "condo" for $100 million?

I found this interesting since I have worked in multiple million dollar estates and personally know many real estate agents.

So I looked into it.

It wasn't a "condo".

It was a 62, 000 square foot mansion.  It wasn't torn down immediately either... 

Just curious... how would one tear down a condo? Lol

Anyhow... Trump purchased the "mansion" ..all 62, 000 SF of it in 2003 from somebody who went bankrupt.  Yeah... He bought it for much less than it's value right off the bat because he purchased it from an individual who was dissolving his estate due to bankruptcy.  

That happened in 2003.  

Trump listed the mansion for $125 million.

It sat on the market for a few years.

It sold in 2008 for $95 million.

The buyer, yes a Russian oligarch, claims he purchased it as an investment... Worth at the time around 12 billion and 59th on the world's B's list.

After the purchase he and his wife divorced.  No dates given in the article I'll attach.  

It was a messy divorce.  She was originally awarded 4 billion and then it reduced to just under a billion and then settled out of court privately.

Then the mansion was demolished and subdivided into three separate properties.

As of the date of the article one property sold for $34 million last year.

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/why-did-a-russian-pay-95m-to-buy-trumps-palm-beach-mansion/

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Paranormal Panther
2 hours ago, and then said:

It just occurred to me that her campaign slogan may come back to haunt a few of her minions: "I'M WITH HER"  :w00t:

It didn't help her during her campaign, either. Many voters were with anybody *but* her.

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joc
5 minutes ago, Tiggs said:

I'm defending Steele from entirely unevidenced accusations of producing a "Fake Dossier", a "Dodgy Dossier", or it's latest incarnation -- "a forgery fed to him by Evil Hillary".

Unevidenced?  It was paid for by Evil Hillary.  That should be evidence enough...not to mention...It was introduced to the FISC by Peter Strzok when he took the application for warrants to obtain surveillance on Trump and Co.

 

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Paranormal Panther
2 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Anyone can win if enough of their voters can relate to the candidate. Take from that what you will.

There's that. Then, there's the old saw about the lesser of two evils.

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joc
13 minutes ago, Astra. said:

Well IMHO, I hope eventually that the follow up memo will be released to the public (even if that means that it may need some tweaking). Especially after all of the lead up, fanfare, and drama that was involved in releasing the Nunes memo. Under the circumstances, I think it's only fair that the general public get to view this possible forthcoming material as well. 

 

Trump said he wasn't going to release it.

 

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Paranormal Panther
2 hours ago, Tiggs said:

Pretty sure that's what I said.

I'm not sure that you did. You said that you trusted the intelligence community. I asked why since alphabet agencies have a history of corruption and malfeasance. To be clear, I'm referring to employees as well as the employer.

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Merc14
19 minutes ago, Tiggs said:

Steele never signed an agreement with the FBI, let alone one that would stop him speaking to the press.
 

He agreed to continue his work with the FBI, whether he signed anything, who cares, that the FBI was willing to pay him is all that matters.  http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/321643-fbi-agreed-to-pay-former-british-spy-responsible-for-russia-dossier

Quote

Steele returned home to England long before the Buzzfeed story which named him even dropped.

I don't care when he left, I only know he went into hiding and then snuck away.  http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-38591382

Quote

You'll perhaps note that he's voluntarily spoken to Mueller's team, too.

Yep, and that is it and everyone but you knows what that means.

Quote

Steele's lawyers have told the court that forcing his testimony would reveal sources and methods damaging to the UK's national security. The UK Government have dispatched their own lawyers to the court, apparently in agreement.

You mean the Russian agents who work for Putin, the guy who supposedly masterminded overturning the 2016 election?  Those sources?  Or do you mean Hillary's personal hatchet-men?  Or do you mean all of them?  You'd think an honest man like Steele would want to punish the folks who overthrew an election!  Strange that, instead he ran home to England refusing to testiify to anyone but Mueller who is on a witch hunt.  Thanks for reminding me Tiggs, I forgot about that!  Lot's of moving pieces.

Quote

That you're currently aware of.


So you still believe that the FBI really knows that some of these facts are true and is holding back?  You still think that after anything even remotely negative about Trump, proven or unproven, has been leaked already?   Wow, those must be some expensive rose colored glasses but I am guessing the lenses are about an inch and a half thick by now.

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Astra.
41 minutes ago, joc said:

Trump said he wasn't going to release it.

 

Oh, is that a certainty ?.... as I was under the impression that Mr Trump sent it back to the House Intelligence Committee to make certain necessary changes to it, before possibly releasing it. Can his decision be over ruled, if it comes to that ? (as in not releasing it I mean)

Edited by Astra.

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Tiggs
41 minutes ago, Paranormal Panther said:

I'm not sure that you did. You said that you trusted the intelligence community. I asked why since alphabet agencies have a history of corruption and malfeasance. To be clear, I'm referring to employees as well as the employer.

Top employees are politically appointed.

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RavenHawk
40 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

It is estimated that Putin, personally, has suffered billions of dollars in losses from the Magnitsky Act. You don't think an 'ace card' is worth billions of dollars? Okay then.

Then I guess there is no collusion.  How much would he get back if Hilary was President?

 

But let's just consider Putin's political situation. He is able to hold onto power because, since he came to power, his relationship with the West has made hundreds of billions for the Russian oligarchs. How long do you think he would be able to hold onto power while these people with the resources of entire countries continue to lose money? I'd guess that ending the Magnitsky Act is his Trump card. Sorry, 'ace card'. My bad.

It is your bad.  This was enacted in 2012.  Seems to me that he has been able to retain power pretty well in spite of it.  Maybe this loss of money isn’t all that bad?  why worry about billions when he can garner hundreds of billions?  Again, why reveal his ace for something he really doesn’t need?  This Magnitsky thing is really insignificant.

 

Yeah, okay then. That condo was also only worth half the price that it was sold for, but I guess nothing will convince you. Carry on.

And?  Capitalism works even in Russia.  How much is the Russian that bought it going to make in the long run?

 

It has loads of evidence, and I suspect Mueller has a lot more.

If there is evidence, then present it.  With all the leaking going on in the Deep State, the odds are that even some evidence should come out.  If Mueller has a lot more then why is he sitting on it?  If this President is guilty of what you want him to be, he needs to go asap.  No more waiting.  That’s the only way to save Hilary et al, …er, I mean the nation.

 

And, again, Hillary and even Obama are brought up. You should just impeach her already and get it over with.

It wouldn’t be impeach but I agree, stop with the political games.  Both are as guilty as Hell.  Money laundering, pay to play, conspiracy, weaponizing government agencies against political opponents and the American people.

 

My point is that some of these theories or accusations, including practically every Rico case, has enough merit to warrant an investigation. The crap you come out with doesn't. That's the difference. 

So now it has evolved from collusion to RICO.  That tells me that there is nothing.  You keep looking for a crime to fit the circumstances.  There is clear evidence against Hilary et al, without having to invent something.  But if all you watch is only the MSM, then you wouldn’t know.

 

I don't think we'll have too much longer to wait, btw. I expect a few here to completely disappear. And others to double down.

And how much longer is that excuse going to continue?  The Special Counsel Investigation has painted itself into a corner.  It’s going to take a Congressional committee to call Mueller on the carpet and either present a case or drop it.

 

Yeah, okay then. Good luck with that. I expect it to bear as much fruit as past investigations. How many and for how many years is that now?

Everybody’s luck runs out.  The Clintons time is up.  They’ve tried one too many scams.

 

Ah, so you don't know how a RICO case works then. That explains your inability to understand why Trump wasn't charged 20 minutes after the investigation began.

[Insert double face palm]  This is not a RICO case.  It’s been 15 months.  Mueller has all the evidence that will ever be.  The only criminal organization here is the Clinton Foundation.

 

I tell ya, man. If Trump himself confessed, I bet some of you guys would concoct an outlandish conspiracy theory about how his family had been threatened, forcing him into a false confession.

That is so much BS!  If he confessed, then I’d be on the bandwagon to hang him.  That’s more that the Obama and Hilary supporters would do.  I’m tired of the corruption in Washington.  Trump hasn’t been there long enough.  The corruption that exists is there because of Obama and Hilary.  We need to clean house and Hilary is a good starting point.  I know character and Obama and Hilary are crooked.  Trump is the most honest between the three.  I know you find that difficult to swallow.  Too bad!  It’s too easy to be consumed by the negativity Obama and Hilary has pushed over the years and many have fallen into that trap.  Trump is a positive force.  The darkness can’t handle the light.  That’s why all of this is happening.  It is the death pangs of the darkness.

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Paranormal Panther
36 minutes ago, Tiggs said:

Top employees are politically appointed.

Fish swim. Why do you trust the intelligence community?

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RavenHawk
1 hour ago, acidhead said:

Who told you Trump sold a "condo" for $100 million?

[Rest snipped for brevity]

When somebody has done the research and knows the facts, anti-Trumpers are left with egg on their face.

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Tiggs
1 hour ago, Merc14 said:

He agreed to continue his work with the FBI, whether he signed anything, who cares, that the FBI was willing to pay him is all that matters.  http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/321643-fbi-agreed-to-pay-former-british-spy-responsible-for-russia-dossier

No contract = no employment = no rules of employment
 

1 hour ago, Merc14 said:

I don't care when he left, I only know he went into hiding and then snuck away.  http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-38591382

The press published pictures of his house after he annoyed some very powerful Russians.

I'd be staying somewhere else for a while, too.
 

1 hour ago, Merc14 said:

Yep, and that is it and everyone but you knows what that means.

That he's less scared of talking to Mueller than Trump's legal team is?
 

1 hour ago, Merc14 said:

You mean the Russian agents who work for Putin, the guy who supposedly masterminded overturning the 2016 election?  Those sources?  Or do you mean Hillary's personal hatchet-men?  Or do you mean all of them?  You'd think an honest man like Steele would want to punish the folks who overthrew an election!  Strange that, instead he ran home to England refusing to testiify to anyone but Mueller who is on a witch hunt.  Thanks for reminding me Tiggs, I forgot about that!  Lot's of moving pieces.

Again. Steele lives in England. Where he was born.

The FBI paid him to fly to the US, and discuss the dossier, before returning home.

That would be his home in England. Land of his forefathers. 

The British Government doesn't dispatch lawyers to court unless they need to.
 

1 hour ago, Merc14 said:

So you still believe that the FBI really knows that some of these facts are true and is holding back?  You still think that after anything even remotely negative about Trump, proven or unproven, has been leaked already?   Wow, those must be some expensive rose colored glasses but I am guessing the lenses are about an inch and a half thick by now.

I hear that Mueller's SCIF isn't subject to many leaks.

Again -- there's a difference between what you believe, and what you can evidence.

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Gummug
On 1/21/2018 at 1:53 PM, skliss said:

So from what I've gleaned about the whole thing at this point is.....and if anyone has more info, please throw it in.... this porn star claimed to an interviewer that she had an affair with Trump in 2006. She agreed to take a polygraph at time of the interview, which she failed...so the story wasn't universally believed. Now it's being claimed that she received a 6 figure payoff from Michael Cohen in 2016 to keep quiet...which seems odd since the story was already told. Cohen denies a payoff, Trump denies an affair and so does the "star"....which is also odd because she could just say "No comment" and not give an actual denial. So basically, who knows?

I am still reading through this thread but I would have to say considering how many people are so desperate to discredit Trump I would really look at this with a very jaundiced eye.

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