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OverSword

FISA memo set to end collusion investigation

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Bavarian Raven
1 hour ago, hacktorp said:

I've also run across recent speculation suggesting Trump will soon be led off in handcuffs, the election results overturned, and Hillary Clinton will sashay in, to the sound of heavenly trumpets, to finish out Trump's term.  It doesn't seem to be "growing" so much, but is still fiercely proclaimed by the faithful...such as yourself.  These people are being badly misled (or nuts), in my opinion.

That's one way to start an open revolt in the states. Lol. 

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Paranormal Panther
12 hours ago, Tiggs said:

I'm sure there are bad ones, too. Same in every organisation, pretty much everywhere.

In that case, we shouldn't blindly accept the claims made against Trump. We also shouldn't blindly trust all members, of the intelligence community, involved in the witch hunt.

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RavenHawk
7 minutes ago, Tiggs said:

There's also this clause: "Our review will not substitute the OIG's judgment for the judgments made by the FBI or the Department regarding the substantive merits of investigative or prosecutive decisions."

The operative here is “merits”.  If said decisions are based on bogus documentation, so are the decisions.

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ExpandMyMind
3 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

The operative here is “merits”.  If said decisions are based on bogus documentation, so are the decisions.
 

You would have to prove the documentation bogus. Instead of just claiming it over and over.

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Tiggs
4 minutes ago, Paranormal Panther said:

In that case, we shouldn't blindly accept the claims made against Trump. We also shouldn't blindly trust all members, of the intelligence community, involved in the witch hunt.

If it was just one intelligence agency? Maybe.

But it's not. Several intelligence agencies, world-wide, have raised red flags related to Team Trump and Russia.

Personally, I don't have enough tinfoil to create a hat with a wide enough brim to believe that they're all tied up in the same conspiracy.

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Lilly
7 minutes ago, Tiggs said:



There's also this clause: "Our review will not substitute the OIG's judgment for the judgments made by the FBI or the Department regarding the substantive merits of investigative or prosecutive decisions."

 

The term "substantive merits" means what's legally the right of the FBI to form a judgement in order to go forth and investigate or prosecute. If the FBI oversteps or abuses it's legal rights/powers then I highly suspect the office of the Inspector General has some recourse. Even the FBI doesn't have omnipotent powers. 

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Paranormal Panther
1 minute ago, Tiggs said:

If it was just one intelligence agency? Maybe.

But it's not. Several intelligence agencies, world-wide, have raised red flags related to Team Trump and Russia.

Personally, I don't have enough tinfoil to create a hat with a wide enough brim to believe that they're all tied up in the same conspiracy.

I don't have enough to believe that Trump and Putin planned and plotted to beat Clinton. I don't have enough to believe that Russian meddling changed the outcome one bit. I don't have enough to believe that they have one thing that clearly will tie Trump to their allegations against him. I don't have enough to believe that Clinton lost for any reason other than the fact that she was about the worst person that they could have picked and that she ran a horrid campaign.

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Tiggs
7 minutes ago, Lilly said:

The term "substantive merits" means what's legally the right of the FBI to form a judgement in order to go forth and investigate or prosecute. If the FBI oversteps or abuses it's legal rights/powers then I highly suspect the office of the Inspector General has some recourse. Even the FBI doesn't have omnipotent powers. 

I hear he's going to clear up the whole bigfoot thing while he's there, too.

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Lilly
Just now, Tiggs said:

I hear he's going to clear up the whole bigfoot thing while he's there, too.

Unless Bigfoot has been involved with the FBI I suspect he will still remain a mystery.

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Tiggs
3 minutes ago, Lilly said:

Unless Bigfoot has been involved with the FBI I suspect he will still remain a mystery.

I'm sure there's a bigfoot dossier, somewhere, the FBI have buried because of Evil Hillary.

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Tiggs
11 minutes ago, Paranormal Panther said:

I don't have enough to believe that Trump and Putin planned and plotted to beat Clinton. I don't have enough to believe that Russian meddling changed the outcome one bit. I don't have enough to believe that they have one thing that clearly will tie Trump to their allegations against him. I don't have enough to believe that Clinton lost for any reason other than the fact that she was about the worst person that they could have picked and that she ran a horrid campaign.

Then you certainly don't have enough to believe a conspiracy embracing multiple intelligence agencies, world-wide.

But here we are, regardless, I guess.

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Paranormal Panther
Just now, Tiggs said:

Then you certainly don't have enough to believe a conspiracy embracing multiple intelligence agencies, world-wide.

But here we are, regardless, I guess.

I know that I have enough common sense to know a witch hunt when I see one. I also have enough to know political partisanship when I read it.

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Tiggs
Just now, Paranormal Panther said:

I know that I have enough common sense to know a witch hunt when I see one. I also have enough to know political partisanship when I read it.

Same.

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Paranormal Panther
Just now, Tiggs said:

Same.

I'll add to that. Same old ****.

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hacktorp
1 hour ago, Tiggs said:

Pretty sure that the last time you claimed he was about to flip, he charged Flynn.

It is no secret that the so-called charges against Flynn are so weak as to be farcical given the nature of the investigation.

In fact, to the contrary, those charges tend to support the notion that they are, in fact, a red herring.

Flynn will escape all charges and be feted.  You heard it here first.

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Tiggs
1 minute ago, hacktorp said:

It is no secret that the so-called charges against Flynn are so weak as to be farcical given the nature of the investigation.

In fact, to the contrary, those charges tend to support the notion that they are, in fact, a red herring.

Flynn will escape all charges and be feted.  You heard it here first.

Including all the ones Mueller has in reserve -- like, Flynn lying on his security clearance application?

That'll be pretty special.

Flynn's already pleaded guilty to those "so-called charges" as part of his cooperation deal. Perhaps you skipped over that part.

Mueller's not going to throw the book at a cooperating witness.

The charges are minimal, so that Mueller can convince the court to waive them, when he presents evidence to them of Flynn's cooperation during his investigation. 

That's why Mueller's team is actively delaying the sentencing stage for Flynn.

The others are in reserve, for two reasons:

Firstly -- so Mueller can throw the book at him, if he doesn't cooperate. And Flynn's already copped a plea of guilty, which is going to help making the rest of it stick.

Secondly -- so that the State's can charge Flynn with them, if the President decides to pardon him.

I suspect Flynn is going to walk away from this without punishment, too.

But not for the reasons you think.

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Merc14
7 hours ago, RAyMO said:

sounds to me as if Sessions is saying you can think and say what you like - but we act on facts.  Which surprisingly - is quite sensible.

 

Yeah, surprising because republicans don't do anything right, except finally get the GDP above 3%, defeat ISIS, pass a budget, run a presidential primary that isn't  fixed so the corrupt, probably a criminal candidate beats the more popular candidate etc., you know all the things your party couldn't do the last 8 years, oh  except for teh  fixed primary, that did accomplish that, well done democrats  you are brilliant.  :rolleyes:

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Tiggs
1 minute ago, Merc14 said:

Yeah, surprising because republicans don't do anything right, except finally get the GDP above 3%

That's an interesting claim. Here are the quarterly figures for the last 6 years or so. Care to walk me through it?

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hacktorp
16 minutes ago, Tiggs said:

The charges are minimal, so that Mueller can convince the court to waive them, when he presents evidence to them of Flynn's cooperation during his investigation.

Lol...is that also when he presents evidence to them of Trump's massive, treasonous, criminal enterprise involving all sorts of greed and corruption that so far no one seems to know anything about?  And it is somehow bigger and more dangerous than the Clinton's massive, treasonous, criminal enterprise involving all sorts of greed and corruption that everyone knows about?

I dunno...

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RavenHawk
1 hour ago, Tiggs said:

Then you certainly don't have enough to believe a conspiracy embracing multiple intelligence agencies, world-wide.

But here we are, regardless, I guess.

I think I asked this once before.  Is this the same world intel community that confirmed that Saddam had WMD?  But yup, here we are again…

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Tiggs
17 minutes ago, hacktorp said:

Lol...is that also when he presents evidence to them of Trump's massive, treasonous, criminal enterprise involving all sorts of greed and corruption that so far no one seems to know anything about?  And it is somehow bigger and more dangerous than the Clinton's massive, treasonous, criminal enterprise involving all sorts of greed and corruption that everyone knows about?

I dunno...

I hear that partisan-based conspiracy theories generally propagate faster than the details of a ongoing Special Counsel investigation.

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GlitterRose

Don't people tire of just spouting complete bs for 75 pages? 

I mean...kudos to you again, Tiggs for combating it with such persistence. 

Every single thing that has come out of, well, several...several posters, has been easily and pretty much immediately debunked.

And yet...it continues. 

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and then
1 hour ago, Lilly said:

The term "substantive merits" means what's legally the right of the FBI to form a judgement in order to go forth and investigate or prosecute. If the FBI oversteps or abuses it's legal rights/powers then I highly suspect the office of the Inspector General has some recourse. Even the FBI doesn't have omnipotent powers. 

I agree.  This is truly an example of Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes, as it relates to seats of power.  If there is clear reason to question the honesty of the leadership of the FBI or DOJ, then a Special Counsel should be a no-brainer.  If the innuendo surrounding the Trump campaign was enough then surely the facts that have come out from communications between FBI employees justify a deeper investigation.  Trump or his people stupidly used other business types with connections to Russian money and this whole inquisition gained legs without ANY proof that Trump - or any of those working for him - actually tried to do anything to illegally affect the election.  I think Mueller is grasping at straws now and he's going to look ridiculous and impotent if he doesn't shoehorn some significant charge against SOMEONE, and soon.  Meanwhile, Jeff Sessions seems to be fiddling while DC burns.  If he doesn't appoint a Special Counsel or explain exactly WHY he can't then he needs to GO.  I have always voted for and admired the man as my Senator.  I hate to lose that respect but he's beginning to seem like a swamp dweller.  

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and then
2 hours ago, Bavarian Raven said:

That's one way to start an open revolt in the states. Lol. 

It's actually less incredible a possibility than you'd imagine.  Lawlessness in high places can destroy this country.  If the people that have always respected the law and voluntarily subjected themselves to its penalties begin to see a stark, complete double-standard for those in positions of power, it will all fall apart at some point.  

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Tiggs
10 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

I think I asked this once before.  Is this the same world intel community that confirmed that Saddam had WMD?  But yup, here we are again…

We can walk around the same circle again, if you like.

But I'm fairly sure that last time we did, you claimed my position wasn't a paradox, as the inverse applied to yourself.

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