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OverSword

FISA memo set to end collusion investigation

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Tiggs
6 minutes ago, Ellapennella said:

Well, the funny thing is , there are no facts to  support this investigation, yet Sessions signed off on it without confronting them

If you're referring to the Mueller investigation, Sessions recused himself.

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ellapenella
Just now, Tiggs said:

If you're referring to the Mueller investigation, Sessions recused himself.

That too ! Makes no sense. 

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Merc14
10 minutes ago, Tiggs said:

Okay -- and your evidence that it's reached 3% under Trump is...?

Looks like it will, numbers are still being adjusted. 

Edited by Merc14

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Tiggs
2 minutes ago, Ellapennella said:

That too ! Makes no sense. 

Sessions was part of the Trump Campaign.

So, conflict of interest for him to have a say in whether the Campaign should be investigated or not.

Hence the recusal.

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Tiggs
2 minutes ago, Merc14 said:

Looks like it will, numbers are still be adjusted. 

Maybe. Last quarter would need to change from 2.6% to 4.5%, to hit 3% overall. That's quite a bit of adjusting.

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ellapenella

This is when I first learned about Jeff Sessions .He was fighting for us, I thought.I don't recognize him anymore as fighting for us.I know he has it in him, what happened? 

 

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ellapenella
3 minutes ago, Tiggs said:

Sessions was part of the Trump Campaign.

So, conflict of interest for him to have a say in whether the Campaign should be investigated or not.

Hence the recusal.

Conflict of interest in what? doing his job? I don't get him. 

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Tiggs
Just now, Ellapennella said:

Conflict of interest in what? doing his job? I don't get him. 

Sessions was part of the Trump election campaign.

If he said "No, I don't think the Trump election campaign needs to be investigated" -- then he could be accused of doing so because it's in his vested interest not to have the campaign investigated.

To avoid that, he recused himself from the decision, and let someone not involved with the campaign decide.

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Gromdor

My take on Sessions is that he is actually one of the more savvy Trump team member when it come to legal matters.  He "doesn't recall" things that would implicate himself or Trump.  He doesn't take actions or make statements that could cause legal issues.  He recuses himself or distances himself from anything that even gives perception of obstruction or collusion. 

If Trump and company are found guilty of collusion/obstruction, he would be the one to walk away relatively unscathed. 

 

Nunes in like the opposite.  His memo and Trump's response gave the impression that Trump would okay things that the FBI and the DOJ said were sensitive that harmed the Mueller investigation.  Trump's current blocking of the Democrat memo gives the impression that Trump would block things that helped the Mueller investigation or hindered his defense.  I have the feeling that before the end of the investigation, Nunes will be in front of Mueller as well.

Edited by Gromdor
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Lilly
33 minutes ago, Ellapennella said:

 

 

I'm bias, for what is right, what's wrong with that? I don't get your link, what are you trying to say?

.

The link is to a site that is known for extremist conspiracy driven ideas (that's what my link demonstrated). You're certainly free to believe what you choose, but don't expect others to simply follow suit. 

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Lilly
29 minutes ago, Ellapennella said:

Lilly I'm not here to argue with you. It seems that you're getting mad or something when these individuals are exposed.

Not mad in the least, but conspiracy driven notions (from either side of the political spectrum) aren't all that useful as supporting evidence. 

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Tiggs
1 minute ago, Gromdor said:

Nunes in like the opposite.  His memo and Trump's response gave the impression that Trump would okay things that the FBI and the DOJ said were sensitive that harmed the Mueller investigation.  Trump's current blocking of the Democrat memo gives the impression that Trump would block things that helped the Mueller investigation or hindered his defense.  I have the feeling that before the end of the investigation, Nunes will be in front of Mueller as well.

Legally difficult, so I hear, as Members of Congress are generally exempt from facing criminal charges for anything they say (or do) within Congress.

If Nunes coordinated his memo with the White House, however -- then that's an entirely different ball game.

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ExpandMyMind
3 minutes ago, Tiggs said:

Legally difficult, so I hear, as Members of Congress are generally exempt from facing criminal charges for anything they say (or do) within Congress.

If Nunes coordinated his memo with the White House, however -- then that's an entirely different ball game.

I just finished reading this article, which is relevant.

It does look likely that Nunes coordinated with the White House, likely via his staff - he does have a history of doing so when it comes to this investigation. In which case he would be pretty screwed.

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Lilly
6 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

 

Nunes in like the opposite.  His memo and Trump's response gave the impression that Trump would okay things that the FBI and the DOJ said were sensitive that harmed the Mueller investigation.  Trump's current blocking of the Democrat memo gives the impression that Trump would block things that helped the Mueller investigation or hindered his defense.  I have the feeling that before the end of the investigation, Nunes will be in front of Mueller as well.

The FBI signed off on the Nunes memo that it did not compromise sources and methods. Trump never said he was ok with releasing sensitive material. 

So Nunes will be dragged up in front of Mueller for the Republican memo? Based on what exactly? Mueller does not have omnipotent powers, he has to have an actual reason and evidence of a crime. 

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Gromdor
5 minutes ago, Tiggs said:

Legally difficult, so I hear, as Members of Congress are generally exempt from facing criminal charges for anything they say (or do) within Congress.

If Nunes coordinated his memo with the White House, however -- then that's an entirely different ball game.

I guess that is what I was trying to say.  Nunes doesn't seem to distance himself from the White House when doing these things.  If even one of his aides who helped write the memo had any contact with the White House, it opens a whole can of worms for Nunes.  His past behavior (and ethics charge) just further reinforces this.

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Gromdor
1 minute ago, Lilly said:

The FBI signed off on the Nunes memo that it did not compromise sources and methods. Trump never said he was ok with releasing sensitive material. 

So Nunes will be dragged up in front of Mueller for the Republican memo? Based on what exactly? Mueller does not have omnipotent powers, he has to have an actual reason and evidence of a crime. 

Basically, the White House could have authored or shaped the memo in an attempt to discredit the Mueller investigation. (As per the title of this thread) You know, obstruct justice.

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Tiggs
Just now, Lilly said:

The FBI signed off on the Nunes memo that it did not compromise sources and methods. Trump never said he was ok with releasing sensitive material. 

So Nunes will be dragged up in front of Mueller for the Republican memo? Based on what exactly? Mueller does not have omnipotent powers, he has to have an actual reason and evidence of a crime. 

If he coordinated with the White House -- then it's possible he may be charged with Obstruction of Justice.

Especially if Rosenstein is removed.

Big if, of course.

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Lilly
2 minutes ago, Tiggs said:

If he coordinated with the White House -- then it's possible he may be charged with Obstruction of Justice.

Especially if Rosenstein is removed.

Big if, of course.

Mueller would have to prove Nunes did something improper...you can't just level changes without supporting evidence. It just doesn't work that way. 

Really it comes down to was this obstruction of justice or uncovering wrong doing (abuse of power within the FBI). It's going to take more than just allegations for this charge to stick. 

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Merc14
23 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

My take on Sessions is that he is actually one of the more savvy Trump team member when it come to legal matters.  He "doesn't recall" things that would implicate himself or Trump.  He doesn't take actions or make statements that could cause legal issues.  He recuses himself or distances himself from anything that even gives perception of obstruction or collusion. 

If Trump and company are found guilty of collusion/obstruction, he would be the one to walk away relatively unscathed. 

 

Nunes in like the opposite.  His memo and Trump's response gave the impression that Trump would okay things that the FBI and the DOJ said were sensitive that harmed the Mueller investigation.  Trump's current blocking of the Democrat memo gives the impression that Trump would block things that helped the Mueller investigation or hindered his defense.  I have the feeling that before the end of the investigation, Nunes will be in front of Mueller as well.

The chances of Trump being tried for obstruction of Justice in a court is slim to none because you actually have to obstruct something to be tried for obstruction.   Please tell me, what he has obstructed?   Mueller isn't an idiot, he knows this so os hoping to nail people around Trump on something and set congress up for an impeachment based on Trump trying to obstruct justice.  This will be stupid thing to do and would fail because once again, Trump never obstructed anything.  but watching the democrats behavior lately anything is possible.

6 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Basically, the White House could have authored or shaped the memo in an attempt to discredit the Mueller investigation. (As per the title of this thread) You know, obstruct justice.

Then why haven't the democrats come forward and complained? 

 

Edited by Merc14
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Tiggs
Just now, Lilly said:

Mueller would have to prove Nunes did something improper...you can't just level changes without supporting evidence. It just doesn't work that way. 

He'd have to show evidence that Nunes coordinated with the White House.

Trump's public comments on Rosenstein as a result of the Nunes' memo would then be sufficient evidence to show that it was deliberate ploy by the White House to publicly undermine Rosenstein.

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Lilly

Personally, I think it's likely Trump will be impeached for *something*. However, let's take a look at history here shall we: Clinton was impeached for lying about having an affair...and what did that achieve? Nothing, no one really cared. I remember telling people that this was the silliest thing I'd ever seen. Only Hillary should have cared (and she actually appears to have had no problem with Bill's extra-marital activities). 

In order to 'get rid' of Trump the Democrats are going to need something that I've yet to see any actual evidence of. Like I say, it could happen, but the evidence seems to be sorely lacking. 

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Lilly
7 minutes ago, Tiggs said:

He'd have to show evidence that Nunes coordinated with the White House.

Trump's public comments on Rosenstein as a result of the Nunes' memo would then be sufficient evidence to show that it was deliberate ploy by the White House to publicly undermine Rosenstein.

Trump's public comments on Rosenstein are not sufficient to demonstrate that. The President's sources of information did not have to be coordination with Nunes. 

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.ZZ.
7 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

I suggest you read the whole thing, including the actual dossier. It's pretty well laid out.

I'm not going through the full thing for people who have clearly already made up their mind, but the link is there for anyone reading this who maybe doesn't know what to believe after reading the right-wing echo chamber that this forum has become.

Some might call it a Right-wing echo chamber and some might call it parroting of CNN's Don Lemon and Chris Cuomo.

 

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Tiggs
Just now, Lilly said:

Trump's public comments on Rosenstein are not sufficient to demonstrate that. The President source's of information did not have to be coordination with Nunes. 

Wouldn't matter what his sources of information were.

What would matter is if the White House coordinated with Nunes to make Rosenstein look bad, so Trump could remove him without public backlash, and install someone in his place who would effectively shut down the Mueller Investigation.

 

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Lilly
1 minute ago, Tiggs said:

Wouldn't matter what his sources of information were.

What would matter is if the White House coordinated with Nunes to make Rosenstein look bad, so Trump could remove him without public backlash, and install someone in his place who would effectively shut down the Mueller Investigation.

 

The President could very well have sources about Rosenstein that made him "look bad" from before the Nunes investigation ever even began. We don't know what we don't know. 

As for this allegation, "White House coordinated with Nunes to make Rosenstein look bad, so Trump could remove him without public backlash..."  Well, you're going to have to prove that is the case. Also, I seriously doubt Trump is going to shut down the Mueller investigation...that would be political suicide pure and simple. 

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