FISA memo set to end collusion investigation

[ellapenella]

4 hours ago, and then said:

I want to believe that Sessions was attempting to do what he thought was right and allowed himself to be cornered by a group of cutthroat schemers that he SHOULD have been more aware of.  He spent enough time in the Senate to be fully aware of who he was dealing with but I guess he felt he could defuse the fight they were spoiling for at the time.  All he did was feed the fire.  

FWIW, I have seen no reason to impugn Horowitz.  IMO, the IG's office tends to be the least politicized place in the government.  At least, I have no memory of any scandals involving that area.  They are basically auditors who investigate fraud, waste or malfeasance within government agencies.  That's not to say it's impossible that he's tainted but I see no evidence of it so far.  It seems to me that the data from his investigation is bringing things to light that we'd have otherwise never discovered.  In fact, when the full report is made available, I suspect the fireworks may really begin.  Once that report has been digested and reviewed, I hope the call for a Special Counsel will become deafening.  

 

Will you take a look at this , it's about 4 min.

 

 

 

It wouldn't surprise me if what he finds as a major  over site is to do with Comey disclosing Hilary's emails before the election concluded.

 

[Tiggs]

Just now, Lilly said:

Perhaps, but we still don't know about when the Clinton Campaign knew certain information (they obviously had friends in the FBI).

I would have expected to see Papadopoulos pop up in Steele's dossier, somewhere, if that were the case.
 

Just now, Lilly said:

Also, they may have had their own suspicions that some emails may have fallen into the hands of foreign nationals (*cough* Russians *cough*). 

Much more likely, IMO. WaPo reported on June 14th that it was Russia. CrowdStrike confirmed on the June 15th. First Steele memo dated June 20th.
 

Just now, Lilly said:

 Also, the dossier still is likely to have been commissioned to 'fan the flames' so to speak....it was 'slam dunk' opposition research at the very least.

I'd agree that tying Trump to Russia would have been beneficial, politically.
 

Just now, Lilly said:

and went on the be used to get a FISA warrant. 

Allegedly, just the sections relating to Carter Page.

I suspect there's more sources in Page's FISA warrant still to surface. From the minutes of last Monday's House Intelligence Committee:

There is a mention with a meeting with a source outside of  the country. I believe that can be fixed by not revealing the location. There is a reference to an independent source of the FBI that can be revelatory. But I think, again, not changing the point that is trying to be made it would not be something that someone would be able to understand where that came. And there are two references to FBl's SIGINT capabilities, and I believe, again, without changing the points that you are trying to make, that can be revealed --reviewed, or changed.

Either way -- I'm now officially off the internet for a week or so. I'll catch up, on my return.

[Lilly]

Have a nice break Tiggs...something tells me this will all still be going on when you get back! 

[Merc14]

1 hour ago, Tiggs said:

Don't remember claiming that it did.

Still an open question, as far as I'm aware.

Is this part of your bizarre Assange>Hannity>Trump collusion theory?

Quote

All it shows is that the FBI investigation into the Trump/Russia connections started independently of any Clinton-based conspiracy.

 

Thank God it did because we have dug up SOOOO much dirt because of this fraud of an investigation.   Really, all the S hitting the fan now is because you folks on teh left were crazed with Trump Russia collusion. 

Edited February 12, 2018 by Merc14

[Merc14]

9 minutes ago, Tiggs said:

 

Either way -- I'm now officially off the internet for a week or so. I'll catch up, on my return.

Maybe it is all that tea he says he has been drinking while responding to nearly every post on this thread, has to be hard on the old bladder after awhile.   

[Tiggs]

18 minutes ago, Merc14 said:

Is this part of your bizarre Assange>Hannity>Trump collusion theory?

Awww, man. I'd almost escaped, and everything.

Which of the following three things are untrue?

• Hannity advised Trump during the campaign.
• Assange has multiple communication channels with Hannity.
• The US Intelligence Community believes Assange is Team Russia.

Anyway -- catch you next week. Have a good one.

[Paranormal Panther]

22 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

I think I asked this once before.  Is this the same world intel community that confirmed that Saddam had WMD?  But yup, here we are again…

That's a great point. Dishonesty or incompetence can lead to catastrophic consequences. There's no reason to believe that the current witch hunt is immune to this phenomenon. Clapper definitely isn't.

[preacherman76]

36 minutes ago, Tiggs said:

Awww, man. I'd almost escaped, and everything.

Which of the following three things are untrue?

• Hannity advised Trump during the campaign.
• Assange has multiple communication channels with Hannity.
• The US Intelligence Community believes Assange is Team Russia.

Anyway -- catch you next week. Have a good one.

Intelligence has been calling for the death of Assange long before they called him a Russian agent. No due process, no arrest, straight called for his assassination. So they are hardly a trust worthy source when it comes to Assange.   

[Paranormal Panther]

8 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

I believe I provided one. And I also believe it was in reply to you. Post 1665.

Do you really believe that Trump paid a hooker to pee on Saint Barack's Russian hotel bed? If so, John McCain appreciates your wishful fishing.

[Paranormal Panther]

7 hours ago, .ZZ. said:

Some might call it a Right-wing echo chamber and some might call it parroting of CNN's Don Lemon and Chris Cuomo.

 

It's the salt to their pepper. It's a matched set of echo chambers. Not all forum members are in either the Bloods or the Crips, though. There are some independent thinkers here.

[ExpandMyMind]

14 minutes ago, Paranormal Panther said:

Do you really believe that Trump paid a hooker to pee on Saint Barack's Russian hotel bed? If so, John McCain appreciates your wishful fishing.

I don't really care, but it does sound like something he might do. He hates Obama so much that most of his Presidency has consisted of undoing every act Obama made, down to the most trivial. He's never gotten over the roasting Obama gave him - it's probably the main reason he decided to run. His supervillain origin story, if you will

But it doesn't really matter. Steele has stated that he believes roughly 85-90 percent, or thereabouts, of the Dossier is true. Maybe the pee tape is the reason he gave that number.

Regardless, enough of it has been verified that it is now impossible to blindly dismiss it as fabricated. How much more of it is truth will no doubt be revealed over the next year or two.

[Paranormal Panther]

2 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

I don't really care, but it does sound like something he might do. He hates Obama so much that most of his Presidency has consisted of undoing every act Obama made, down to the most trivial. He's never gotten over the roasting Obama gave him - it's probably the main reason he decided to run. His supervillain origin story, if you will

But it doesn't really matter. Steele has stated that he believes roughly 85-90 percent, or thereabouts, of the Dossier is true. Maybe the pee tape is the reason he gave that number.

Regardless, enough of it has been verified that it is now impossible to blindly dismiss it as fabricated. How much more of it is truth will no doubt be revealed over the next year or two.

It's the worst kind of propaganda. It contains falsehoods mixed with truths, and that kind of dishonesty fools more people than outright lies. It's a moral sleight of hand ("ignore the lie and watch the fact"). Get back to me when Trump is impeached and removed.

[ExpandMyMind]

1 minute ago, Paranormal Panther said:

It's the worst kind of propaganda. It contains falsehoods mixed with truths, and that kind of dishonesty fools more people than outright lies. It's a moral sleight of hand ("ignore the lie and watch the fact"). Get back to me when Trump is impeached and removed.

Except it's not propaganda. It was put together with the intention that those at Fusion or elsewhere would investigate further. 

It was never supposed to be released - if it was propaganda then it would have been released before the election. You can't have private propaganda. There's no such thing.

[Paranormal Panther]

1 minute ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Except it's not propaganda. It was put together with the intention that those at Fusion or elsewhere would investigate further. 

It was never supposed to be released - if it was propaganda then it would have been released before the election. You can't have private propaganda. There's no such thing.

They use it as propaganda *now*. They use it to fit their narrative to push their agenda.

[Merc14]

1 hour ago, Tiggs said:

Awww, man. I'd almost escaped, and everything.

Which of the following three things are untrue?

• Hannity advised Trump during the campaign.
• Assange has multiple communication channels with Hannity.
• The US Intelligence Community believes Assange is Team Russia.

Anyway -- catch you next week. Have a good one.

Yeah that's the one, yikes, really an eye opener, true TDS at its ugliest.

[Astra.]

Well, despite my distaste for Mr Trump, not to mention Hillary Clinton ..

I've decided to remain somewhat objective, and wait until the Mueller investigation has wrapped up before jumping to any conclusions in all of this perplexing and tangled mess. From what Iv'e recently read it seems that the Democrats are now prepared to 'black out' parts of their memo concerning the Russia investigation to ensure there is no injurious spilling of sensitive information.Then they'll try again to see if Mr Trump is happy to release it (which IMHO) is only fair to the public. 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/feb/11/house-democrats-to-clean-up-trump-russia-memo-in-bid-for-release

[Vorg]

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/feb/12/trump-dossiers-10-core-collusion-accusations-unver/

 

⦁ The Trump campaign launched an “extensive conspiracy” with the Kremlin to interfere in the 2016 presidential election. To date, no public verification.

⦁ Mr. Trump, for decades a developer of tall buildings, maintained an eight-year relationship of give-and-take with Russian intelligence. To date, no public verification.

⦁ Mr. Trump and senior campaign aides actively supported the Russia hacking of Democratic Party computers to steal and release stolen emails. To date, no public verification.

⦁ Volunteer Carter Page and campaign manager Paul Manafort personally conspired with Moscow to hack the Democrats’ computers. When the hacking began in 2015, neither man was associated with the Trump campaign. Both deny the charge. Mr. Page testified under oath that he had never met or spoken with Mr. Manafort. To date, no public verification of this dossier part.

⦁ Mr. Page, an Annapolis graduate, an energy investor and a former resident of Moscow, traveled to that city in early July 2016 to deliver a public speech at a university. The dossier says he met with two top Kremlin operatives and discussed bribes for working to lift economic sanctions. Mr. Page testified under oath that he had never met nor spoke with them. He has filed libel lawsuits.

⦁ Mr. Trump engaged with Russian prostitutes during a trip to Moscow in 2013. Mr. Trump has denied this numerous times. To date, no public verification.

⦁ Mr. Trump’s personal attorney, Michael Cohen, secretly traveled to Prague in August 2016. His supposed mission: to orchestrate payments with agents of Vladimir Putin to cover up the hacking. At that point, the hacking was known worldwide. Mr. Cohen repeatedly has denied under oath that he took such a trip and showed his passport. He has filed libel lawsuits, including against Fusion GPS. Fusion co-founder Glenn Simpson, who ordered the dossier, has suggested that Mr. Cohen took a private Russian plane and might have been on a yacht in the Adriatic Sea. To date, there has been no public verification of any of this.

⦁ Russian tech entrepreneur Aleksej Gubarev, owner of XBT Holding, hacked the Democrat Party computers with spyware and pornography. He has denied this repeatedly. He sued Mr. Steele for libel in a London court, where the former spy said the information was raw call-in information and not verified.

⦁ Three Russian oligarchs and shareholders in Alfa Bank were involved in Russian election interference and paid bribes to Mr. Putin. They deny the charges and have filed libel lawsuits.

 

Yawn

 

[Merc14]

snip

 

 

Edited February 13, 2018 by Merc14

[Uncle Sam]

44 minutes ago, South Alabam said:

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/feb/12/trump-dossiers-10-core-collusion-accusations-unver/

 

⦁ The Trump campaign launched an “extensive conspiracy” with the Kremlin to interfere in the 2016 presidential election. To date, no public verification.

⦁ Mr. Trump, for decades a developer of tall buildings, maintained an eight-year relationship of give-and-take with Russian intelligence. To date, no public verification.

⦁ Mr. Trump and senior campaign aides actively supported the Russia hacking of Democratic Party computers to steal and release stolen emails. To date, no public verification.

⦁ Volunteer Carter Page and campaign manager Paul Manafort personally conspired with Moscow to hack the Democrats’ computers. When the hacking began in 2015, neither man was associated with the Trump campaign. Both deny the charge. Mr. Page testified under oath that he had never met or spoken with Mr. Manafort. To date, no public verification of this dossier part.

⦁ Mr. Page, an Annapolis graduate, an energy investor and a former resident of Moscow, traveled to that city in early July 2016 to deliver a public speech at a university. The dossier says he met with two top Kremlin operatives and discussed bribes for working to lift economic sanctions. Mr. Page testified under oath that he had never met nor spoke with them. He has filed libel lawsuits.

⦁ Mr. Trump engaged with Russian prostitutes during a trip to Moscow in 2013. Mr. Trump has denied this numerous times. To date, no public verification.

⦁ Mr. Trump’s personal attorney, Michael Cohen, secretly traveled to Prague in August 2016. His supposed mission: to orchestrate payments with agents of Vladimir Putin to cover up the hacking. At that point, the hacking was known worldwide. Mr. Cohen repeatedly has denied under oath that he took such a trip and showed his passport. He has filed libel lawsuits, including against Fusion GPS. Fusion co-founder Glenn Simpson, who ordered the dossier, has suggested that Mr. Cohen took a private Russian plane and might have been on a yacht in the Adriatic Sea. To date, there has been no public verification of any of this.

⦁ Russian tech entrepreneur Aleksej Gubarev, owner of XBT Holding, hacked the Democrat Party computers with spyware and pornography. He has denied this repeatedly. He sued Mr. Steele for libel in a London court, where the former spy said the information was raw call-in information and not verified.

⦁ Three Russian oligarchs and shareholders in Alfa Bank were involved in Russian election interference and paid bribes to Mr. Putin. They deny the charges and have filed libel lawsuits.

 

Yawn

 

No Public Verifications any of the allegations brought against Donald J. Trump, yet they treated it as fact in a FISA court to obtain a warrant to spy on Carter Page and members of Trump's campaign. Pretty shady **** if you ask me.

[ExpandMyMind]

6 hours ago, Uncle Sam said:

No Public Verifications any of the allegations brought against Donald J. Trump, yet they treated it as fact in a FISA court to obtain a warrant to spy on Carter Page and members of Trump's campaign. Pretty shady **** if you ask me.

Do you have a source for the claims that the allegations against Jr were used in a FISA court to spy on the above-mentioned?

[Lilly]

About a year ago there was speculation about the FISA warrant and who may have been named in the initial warrant application (the one that was denied) but to my knowledge there's no public information regarding this. There's now some speculation that Donald Trump Jr may have been the person named. If the FISA applications ever become public we may know, but as of now it's all speculation.

Oh, here's an interesting speculative article that was written almost a year ago: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/445504/obama-camps-fisa-surveillance-trump-denials

Wonder what we will know for sure in another year? 

[ellapenella]

46 minutes ago, Lilly said:

About a year ago there was speculation about the FISA warrant and who may have been named in the initial warrant application (the one that was denied) but to my knowledge there's no public information regarding this. There's now some speculation that Donald Trump Jr may have been the person named. If the FISA applications ever become public we may know, but as of now it's all speculation.

Oh, here's an interesting speculative article that was written almost a year ago: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/445504/obama-camps-fisa-surveillance-trump-denials

Wonder what we will know for sure in another year? 

They never intended for anyone to know this much about it.

Where's this fisa judge? Why aren't those who lied ordered to appear before the court and judge for what they've done? could it be that the judge is one with  them?

 

Department of Justice officials seeking a warrant do not need to show evidence that a crime has occurred or is about to happen. That sort of evidence, also known as probable cause, would be needed to obtain a typical search warrant in criminal court. Instead, officials only need to provide evidence that the target of surveillance is a foreign power or agent of a foreign power.

The FISA court is a U.S. federal court whose purpose is to review and rule on search warrant requests made under FISA. Each year, the FISA court is required to provide a report to Congress of its activities. These reports include the number of requests made under FISA, but not the content of those requests. That content is not a matter of public record.

 

It is also unclear how the current controversy over the Nunes memo will affect FISA operations in the future, if at all.

http://theconversation.com/3-questions-about-the-fisa-court-answered-91208

 

Edited February 13, 2018 by Ellapennella

[+and-then]

50 minutes ago, Lilly said:

Wonder what we will know for sure in another year? 

No more than the public demand to know and probably much less.  I really feel that we've come to a crisis with this insanity and it is damaging our faith in the rule of law and any shred of trust we still had in our institutions.  I think that reasonable people see this for what it is, regarding the president.  I contend that those who see it as justified would be loudly protesting if the president involved were a Democrat.  To me, that's the very definition of hypocrisy.  

[+and-then]

13 hours ago, Astra. said:

Well, despite my distaste for Mr Trump, not to mention Hillary Clinton ..

I've decided to remain somewhat objective, and wait until the Mueller investigation has wrapped up before jumping to any conclusions in all of this perplexing and tangled mess. From what Iv'e recently read it seems that the Democrats are now prepared to 'black out' parts of their memo concerning the Russia investigation to ensure there is no injurious spilling of sensitive information.Then they'll try again to see if Mr Trump is happy to release it (which IMHO) is only fair to the public. 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/feb/11/house-democrats-to-clean-up-trump-russia-memo-in-bid-for-release

The president should send the Democrat memo to the classifying authorities of the info included in the memo and let THEM determine which portions are safe to be left unredacted.  When ten pages are used to rebut four, it seems like a little unnecessary padding is going on, JMO.  

[preacherman76]

14 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

I don't really care, but it does sound like something he might do.

Actually no it isn't. The guy is a germ freak.