I'mConvinced Posted January 21, 2018 Author #351 Share Posted January 21, 2018 13 minutes ago, MauriOra said: Machines are No Match, Never has been, Never Will be... This is the beauty of technology to me, we will get to see who is correct. I will accept any outcome but first must come the test and the results. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'mConvinced Posted January 21, 2018 Author #352 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Just now, Mr. Argon said: Who was that dude? I guess we would call that thing 'God'. The greater question is who created the creator? That is the point of us...maybe 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MauriOra Posted January 21, 2018 #353 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Just now, I'mConvinced said: This is the beauty of technology to me, we will get to see who is correct. I will accept any outcome but first must come the test and the results. Yes.. I Agree, that yous will get to see who's correct... I Already know who is,... But... Life is a Journey, and I wish you much Excitement in your Discovery's... I Have This Excitement too, and Passion, and An Open Mind.. towards our True Power... Heart, Soul, Spirit, Mind, Action.. I Wish You Well Sir..xx Learning is Fun.. Mo..xx 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illyrius Posted January 21, 2018 #354 Share Posted January 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, I'mConvinced said: The greater question is who created the creator? Existance just is. The most logical way to think of it is that it is eternal and cyclical. There is absolutely no explanation for existance, because as physics postulates, something cant come out of nothing. It is impossible to answer, we just know that the existance IS. It is incomprehensible, but it just is. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Wellington Posted January 21, 2018 #355 Share Posted January 21, 2018 On 20/01/2018 at 1:02 PM, I'mConvinced said: If it is to be believed that God created the Heavens and the Earth, and all things, then I propose it is a sadist of the highest order. Let us first imagine that we are Gods and we wished to create a new life form and environment for it to live in. Our goal for this life form is for it to grow, evolve, learn and eventually become a part of our world once it has reached an appropriate level of development/understanding (join us in 'heaven'). So we start by creating a nursery (Earth) and all the things to support it (The universe). If we now wanted our creation to succeed we would nurture it, provide it sustenance and a protective environment in which to grow and evolve. Let us now look at what God actually did: 1. It made our environment particularly harsh, challenging and random. Natural disasters, disease and plague, viruses, other predatory species to name but a few. 2. It created many, many different lifeforms and then destroyed almost all of them by hurling meteors and invoking massive climate change. It did this sort of thing at least 5 times that we know of. A bit like starting a new game of Civilisation. 3. It (supposedly) provided many different scraps of information regarding our purpose here without ever leaving any actual clear instruction. It refuses to clear up this confusion even when we are killing ourselves in wars over it. This isn't even something man could sort out for himself. 4. It created a world where you are more likely to die as a child than an adult and if so probably in a horrific way - war, starvation, disease, failed childbirth etc. 5. It refuses to provide any ongoing support for modern issues - heck, even Microsoft has better support for it's old OS's. If God was benevolent and caring then I don't see the need for the above conditions to exist. If however God was cruel (or at least indifferent to our suffering) and running an experiment, one in which it did not care for its subject but rather only the outcome, then it might make more sense. If God didn't care then wars, plagues and all of the horrors on offer make much more sense - it wants life to be hard, to be a struggle, to end viciously for some and not for others. It would explain the lack of fairness, the lack of care for those too young to even understand a concept of God let alone work towards knowing it before they die. If you think God is a caring and loving God then what has lead you to this conclusion? The mind has many layers to it like an onion but there is only one core instead of us each having our own core. We all derived from that one core, and once our experience is complete we return to it. Being reunified with the core it is equatable to God. Conscious thought has primacy (not the big bang) and it is this which builds up the additional layers ontop of the core which you see as you. It also defines what reality is relative to you. Reality isn't this single thing that exists separate from us all which we simply experience different parts of. It is a personal and plastic reality which moulds itself to each of us based on conscious awareness. Your reality is unique to you. Your purpose in life is not to grow, evolve, develop, or learn. It is to experience what conscious creates - an experience called life that includes suffering. The suffering you encounter results in you having to change your mentality or ways of thinking if you are to go on. You have to learn how not to have certain thoughts and certain types of thoughts. As conscious thought has primacy it continues to create reality until it is extinguished meaning that at the time of your death if you haven't overcome ALL THOUGHTS you will reincarnate yourself. Then you get life again with another round of suffering. After multiple lifetimes be it 10, 100, 1000, 1000000, you will have encountered so many different forms of suffering you will be ready to cease all conscious thought. Or if you are spiritual, you may speed up the process using meditation. But the cessation of all conscious thought is what its all about because once you do this you remove the layers on top of the onion leaving just the core. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MauriOra Posted January 21, 2018 #356 Share Posted January 21, 2018 1 minute ago, RabidMongoose said: The mind has many layers to it like an onion but there is only one core instead of us each having our own core. We all derived from that one core, and once our experience is complete we return to it. Being reunified with the core it is equatable to God. Conscious thought has primacy (not the big bang) and it is this which builds up the additional layers ontop of the core which you see as you. It also defines what reality is relative to you. Reality isn't this single thing that exists separate from us all which we simply experience different parts of. It is a personal and plastic reality which moulds itself to each of us based on conscious awareness. Your reality is unique to you. Your purpose in life is not to grow, evolve, develop, or learn. It is to experience what conscious creates - an experience called life that includes suffering. The suffering you encounter results in you having to change your mentality or ways of thinking if you are to go on. You have to learn how not to have certain thoughts and certain types of thoughts. As conscious thought has primacy it continues to create reality until it is extinguished meaning that at the time of your death if you haven't overcome ALL THOUGHTS you will reincarnate yourself. Then you get life again with another round of suffering. After multiple lifetimes be it 10, 100, 1000, 1000000, you will have encountered so many different forms of suffering you will be ready to cease all conscious thought. Or if you are spiritual, you may speed up the process using meditation. But the cessation of all conscious thought is what its all about because once you do this you remove the layers on top of the onion leaving just the core. Atamarie Friend.. Wonderfully Articulated..!!!! I Agree.... Thankyou... Mo..xx 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'mConvinced Posted January 21, 2018 Author #357 Share Posted January 21, 2018 41 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said: After multiple lifetimes be it 10, 100, 1000, 1000000, you will have encountered so many different forms of suffering you will be ready to cease all conscious thought. Or if you are spiritual, you may speed up the process using meditation. But the cessation of all conscious thought is what its all about because once you do this you remove the layers on top of the onion leaving just the core. Sounds like an awful bore if you ask me. So essentially you are saying that we suffer in order to be able to appreciate the lack of suffering in our final form? Surely if all we need to do is cease all conscious thought then we need an anaesthetist not meditation... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'mConvinced Posted January 21, 2018 Author #358 Share Posted January 21, 2018 50 minutes ago, Mr. Argon said: Existance just is. Maybe, maybe not. The jury is out for me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'mConvinced Posted January 21, 2018 Author #359 Share Posted January 21, 2018 53 minutes ago, MauriOra said: I Agree, that yous will get to see who's correct... I Already know who is,... It's me isn't it? You were going to say me right? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MauriOra Posted January 21, 2018 #360 Share Posted January 21, 2018 9 minutes ago, I'mConvinced said: It's me isn't it? You were going to say me right? hahaha hahaha hahaha... Oh yes...Absolutely..!!! I'm Convinced,...It is YOU!!! NOW WE ARE GOING TO BE SAVED.... I can Relax now... Thankyou Most highest Exalted One....!!! Bowing...!! LOOOLSS.. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplybill Posted January 22, 2018 #361 Share Posted January 22, 2018 On 1/20/2018 at 7:02 AM, I'mConvinced said: If you think God is a caring and loving God then what has lead you to this conclusion? It's a misconception for us to expect God to make our lives a smooth path. Happiness and pain exist side-by-side. It's not an either/or proposition. Jesus put it this way: “The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly." (John 10:10) Our trust in God doesn't end the suffering, but it does guarantee that suffering doesn't have the last word. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khol Posted January 22, 2018 #362 Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, Grandpa Greenman said: Why does a loving god let his creation suffer so much pain? Thankyou sir . Great post by the way. It must be difficult with what you have to endure. I wish you well This is a question that I find a very relevant one and is something Ive asked a number of times but it never gets answered. Also another poster recently commented how how the thought of a creater actually doing this to his creation is completely a repugnant one. And I agree. The answer to this is god simply does not exist.It should be a perfect indicator to the abscence of an almighty creator I need an explanation for why a god would do this?.What kind of lesson is the orphaned child who is dying of aids suppose to be learning ? We cannot even come close to understanding what it would be like to die of starvation. Contemplating your impending death the whole time. In pain. Agony. Finally succumbing. Please Will, or anyone....read this and offer an explanation. There are many examples of human suffering on this planet. These are just a few. http://www.poverty.com/index.html Take a good long look at the faces that appear. These are real people who have suffered a painful death. Have a good look at this whole site and absorb it Where is your god? I ask you what kind of god would do this?. How can this possibly be part of a plan? What can possibly be the reasoning behind it? These are very valid questions Edited January 22, 2018 by khol 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted January 22, 2018 #363 Share Posted January 22, 2018 18 hours ago, I'mConvinced said: Quote I never said it was, I asked a question of those that believe in an all powerful, benevolent entity. That was not clear from your OP but i accept your premise. Quote So is the God of the OT your God? There is no such thing as an omniscient omnipotent entity There is only one physical god form .However humans all interpret it differently and so; yes it is the same god, but no it is not as described in the OT, because people back then perceived it differently to how we might perceive it today. Quote The God of the OT is indeed a vengeful and angry God No the god of the OT is not a vengeful angry god. i don't see that in the OT writings. He is certainly just and there are consequences for our behaviours, but he is consistently loving and merciful, especially to those people with whom he has a covenant Dont forget that, in the OT, gods covenat was only withe jews In the NT it is with all humans Quote An all powerful entity that directly created everyone and everything, that is still in direct contact and influence today, would indeed be directly responsible for natural events. Except the bible explicitly says that he is not responsible for humans being harmed by those events Whether you believe all of earth was Eden like or that eden was a special and protected part of earth the bible explains that it was HUMAN behaviour which caused them to be removed form eden and cast out into a harsher world Look at it like this. God warns humans of the consequences of a certain behaviour yet the y still chose that behaviour. HOW is god responsible for the results? Should he have made it so that behaviour does not have consequences, and that humans can act as they like without consequence? Of course those who "hate" god want to blame god but that is not how the creation story/narrative goes. It is you deciding god is responsible because you don' t like the idea of humans being responsible for their own outcomes and choices Quote So which is the correct manual that we should all follow? There are many manuals, including secular humanism. if you choose to follow the christian manual (bible,or template of Christ's example) you need to know and understand it and apply it to produce constructive results. You need to know it was written out of love to show humans how to behave, and thus obey it, not as a legal document but out of love. eg respect your parents and elders, not because the law says so, but because you love and respect them for who the y are and their wisdoms. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted January 22, 2018 #364 Share Posted January 22, 2018 13 hours ago, third_eye said: Nope ... he your father you his son ... so that's you in the image of your father ... now ... is your God cruel or what ? ~ No But people tend to perceive god via their self perception. if you are angry, lonely, and feeling unloved, then this will influence how you perceive god. if you are loved, loving, gentle and just, then this will also affect how you see god. It doesn't alter the nature of god, but it alters your perception of him, and your relationship ship with him. The same thing occurs in real families where a young person's perception of their parents comes from within that person, and is formed by their own understanding of self This, in turn, constructs how a young person will react and respond to, or interact with, their parents There is an interesting correlation between young people who reject their parents' gods and those who reject their parents authority, and between those who accept their parents' gods and accept their parent's authority 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted January 22, 2018 #365 Share Posted January 22, 2018 13 hours ago, Aquila King said: Lol, that's one of the many reasons why the patriarchal God of the Abrahamic faith makes no sense to me. What if there's two Gods of equal power, one 'male' and 'female?' I mean there are so many alternative possibilities people have yet to even consider. The 'father' God is typically just assumed. God is alien and thus does not have human gender. Some societies see god as male because they a re patriarchal Others see her a s female because the y are matriarchal. However, just as our humanity transcends our gender, so does gods nature transcend any sexual attributes it may or may not have. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted January 22, 2018 #366 Share Posted January 22, 2018 13 hours ago, XenoFish said: But you said we were god? So am I my own father? Should I worship myself? That's seems a tad egotistical. Better to worship yourself than to have no self esteem . if you worship yourself, you will work to improve yourself, increase your potential, and exert your power to improve the word. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted January 22, 2018 #367 Share Posted January 22, 2018 13 hours ago, XenoFish said: Why would god have a gender at all? Well otherwise he/she /it, wouldn't know which toilets and change rooms to use. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted January 22, 2018 #368 Share Posted January 22, 2018 12 hours ago, XenoFish said: Greenman brought up a point. God is only good when things go your way, god is testing when things don't, then when things get horrible it's the devils doing. This is spiritual scapegoating. If you have an illness it's either god testing your spirit or punishing you for wtf-ever reason. No that is a flawed human perception. Another way of looking at it is that, as a consequence of evolution and natural consequence, good things happen to bad people and bad things happen to good people eg a child gets cancer and dies. A partner is killed in an accident . You lose everything you own. Where god, and your belief in, or connection to , god comes in then, is in how that HELPS you. Belief and faith can heal, can prevent pain and suffering, can bring joy from sorrow, sobriety from drunkenness etc. The power or spirit of god, in any human being, helps them deal with, overcome, and transform, negative experiences into positive ones. Death, loss tragedy, etc do not have to be the cause of pain or suffering, but can be transformed into a time of joy and peace, if you are believing in, and/ or connected to, the power of god. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightAngel Posted January 22, 2018 #369 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Just kidding, so nobody need to reply here That's why I'm God in my own life 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightAngel Posted January 22, 2018 #370 Share Posted January 22, 2018 43 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: God is alien and thus does not have human gender. I agree. However, we are the aliens, so we are the Gods. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted January 22, 2018 #371 Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Mr Walker said: No that is a flawed human perception. Another way of looking at it is that, as a consequence of evolution and natural consequence, good things happen to bad people and bad things happen to good people eg a child gets cancer and dies. A partner is killed in an accident . You lose everything you own. Where god, and your belief in, or connection to , god comes in then, is in how that HELPS you. Belief and faith can heal, can prevent pain and suffering, can bring joy from sorrow, sobriety from drunkenness etc. The power or spirit of god, in any human being, helps them deal with, overcome, and transform, negative experiences into positive ones. Death, loss tragedy, etc do not have to be the cause of pain or suffering, but can be transformed into a time of joy and peace, if you are believing in, and/ or connected to, the power of god. Probably, most people, of course there are exceptions, but, regardless, of religious affiliation or a belief in god most tend towards finding value in experiences, using affect emotion to define a situation and then become transformed for the better due to life’s tougher moments which happen to us all at one time or another. The lady I just took care of who died in August didn’t use a god construct to face her death, she just faced it and welcomed it, it was a wonderful experience for all of us that knew her, thanks to her approach, same with my grandfather ( Athiest) he was happy to be moving on, he felt he had lived a good life. There is a code we follow in Hospice—that how the person embraces or doesn’t embrace their death is their right, it is their show and we let them play out how they see fit. My first live in job the lady was terrified to die, and resistant to any other approach to the idea of dieing, in retrospect, I think it was the first time in her life of 88 years that she acknowledged her emotions, she had been an alcoholic for most of her adult life, she numbed herself, except the last 8 months of her life she felt things, mainly fear, which is understandable because her dementia left her with no choice she had to feel, she couldn’t mask anymore. Her death, her show. Edited January 22, 2018 by Sherapy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquila King Posted January 22, 2018 #372 Share Posted January 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, Sherapy said: Probably, most people, regardless, of religious affiliation or a belief in god tend towards finding value in experiences, using affect emotion to define a situation and then become transformed for the better due to life’s tougher moments which happen to us all at one time or another. The lady I just took care of who died in August didn’t use a god construct to face her death, she just faced it and welcomed it, it was a wonderful experience for all of us that knew her, thanks to her approach, same with my grandfather ( Athiest) he was happy to be moving on, he felt he had lived a good life. There is a saying in Hospice that how the person embraces or doesn’t embrace their death is their right, it is their show and we let them play out how they see fit. My first live in job the lady was terrified to die, and resistant to any other approach to the idea of dieing, in retrospect, I think it was the first time in her life of 88 years that she acknowledged her emotions, she had been an alcoholic for most of her adult life, she numbed herself, except the last 8 months of her life she felt things. And, her dementia left her with no choice she had to feel, she couldn’t mask anymore. Her death, her show. I'm curious as to your thoughts on something... Do you think that perhaps the negative things that happen in life are in some sort of twisted way possibly a good thing? In that perhaps the lack of that which is good causes us to value the good even more? I remember someone bringing up here the concept that if we were to experience true 'heaven', and have everything that we could ever possibly desire at our fingertips for all eternity, would this suddenly devalue that which is good due to it's infinite abundance and thereby make it at least in some sense 'bad'? Could the lack of good in the world be good in the long run? I honestly don't know. But it certainly got me thinking. That's why I'm curious to hear your thoughts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightAngel Posted January 22, 2018 #373 Share Posted January 22, 2018 5 minutes ago, Aquila King said: Do you think that perhaps the negative things that happen in life are in some sort of twisted way possibly a good thing? In that perhaps the lack of that which is good causes us to value the good even more? Yes.... in some cases. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquila King Posted January 22, 2018 #374 Share Posted January 22, 2018 7 minutes ago, LightAngel said: Yes.... in some cases. How so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightAngel Posted January 22, 2018 #375 Share Posted January 22, 2018 4 minutes ago, Aquila King said: How so? Well... We shouldn't take the good things in life for granted. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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