For those who don't believe in Christ.

[XenoFish]

6 minutes ago, Truthseeker007 said:

 I must have a speech impediment but you knew what I was saying or trying to say.

Its my psychotic powers.

[Truthseeker007]

1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

Its my psychotic powers.

[simplybill]

2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

But you're following a path created by other people under the guise of religion. 

It may appear that way before you make the commitment. That's the reason we evangelize. It's impossible to prove spiritual matters with material tools, so we tell people our experiences, and we try to show how our lives have changed as the result of God's grace.

[XenoFish]

7 minutes ago, simplybill said:

It may appear that way before you make the commitment. That's the reason we evangelize. It's impossible to prove spiritual matters with material tools, so we tell people our experiences, and we try to show how our lives have changed as the result of God's grace.

I made that commitment before Bill. After the fact you begin to notice 'problems'. You know why spiritual matters can't be proven? Because they are psychological. You can show the electrical activity in the brain, but you can't show the idea behind it. 

[simplybill]

37 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I made that commitment before Bill. After the fact you begin to notice 'problems'. You know why spiritual matters can't be proven? Because they are psychological. You can show the electrical activity in the brain, but you can't show the idea behind it. 

I'm not sure how to reply, except to suggest that the electrical activity I've encountered on this path operates at 220 volts, compared to the 110 volts I encountered when I was operating under my own power. 

Now, if you don't mind, I'm going to bow out of the discussion, because these conversations tend to start going downhill after about the third page of comments.

 

Edited January 22, 2018 by simplybill

[XenoFish]

2 minutes ago, simplybill said:

Now, if you don't mind, I'm going to bow out of the discussion, because these conversations tend to start going downhill after about the third page of comments.

Do what thou will.

[Podo]

On 1/21/2018 at 0:40 PM, seekyefirst said:

God doesn't make anyone sick.  In fact, "by His stripes" we were all healed

If an omniscient creator deity exists, that is responsible for all creation, then it necessarily is responsible for the bad things as well. Thus, for ad things to not be directly due to your god, you are admitting that either your god isn't all-powerful, or that he is all-powerful and simply unwilling to help everyone. Both are bad, but the most obvious and logical conclusion is that the Christian god simply doesn't exist. There is nothing whatsoever making Christianity any more legitimate than the tens of thousands of other deities created by myths in all of human history.

[Guyver]

On 1/21/2018 at 0:51 PM, seekyefirst said:

Also, I notice this is a bit of a "misery loves company" kind of thing happening here.  There are a whole lot of you who want to rip on God but really have never invested in a relationship with him.  He's not a genie; he doesn't grant wishes.  He answers prayers.  So, if you haven't lived obedient to the Word, and you have a crisis, you think he HAS to jump in and say "all better?"  He can, and sometimes he does.  I just want you all to know, those of you who think you've been forgotten or abandoned, that it is actually quite the opposite.   

Have you ever thought about what it would be like to be in God's presence......I mean for real?  I have had the opportunity to stand inside the control unit of a nuclear power plant.....and do you know what it was like?  Well, it was powerful.  I mean, there was a hum to it but also the sense of power generation itself.  It was pretty intense to be in the place of that much power.   Well, imagine God, in a place and time and you are there.

No one would be ripping on God.

Most people would be just completely blown away by the experience.  I think that around here, people have an opportunity to express themselves.  They are disappointed because God seems no where to be found.  We don't find him in church, and examining ourselves allows us to realize how much of what we know and experience is actually the result of our own minds.  You're a Christian, and you speak of God being there.  I was once like you.  I remember listening to a dude I worked with who was a friend of mine and decided to be the sound mixer for a Christian band I was in at the time.  I was trying to convert him to be Christian and you know what he told me?

He told me about seeking God and not finding him.  It was sad.  He was on a Christian retreat on Catalina Island, and he did what the counselors told him to do.  He went away to a quiet place in the woods to pray and sat down to speak to God.  God never came.  I used the excuse that God came, but just in a form that he didn't know.  I actually had the audacity to believe that God was right there with that brother because I was there.  But, what if I had been Muslim instead of Christian?  Would you still believe God was there?  If I were trying to convert him to Islam?   

[Guyver]

3 hours ago, simplybill said:

Now, if you don't mind, I'm going to bow out of the discussion, because these conversations tend to start going downhill after about the third page of comments.

Do unto others before they do unto thee.  

[seekyefirst]

2 hours ago, Guyver said:

Have you ever thought about what it would be like to be in God's presence......I mean for real?  I have had the opportunity to stand inside the control unit of a nuclear power plant.....and do you know what it was like?  Well, it was powerful.  I mean, there was a hum to it but also the sense of power generation itself.  It was pretty intense to be in the place of that much power.   Well, imagine God, in a place and time and you are there.

No one would be ripping on God.

Most people would be just completely blown away by the experience.  I think that around here, people have an opportunity to express themselves.  They are disappointed because God seems no where to be found.  We don't find him in church, and examining ourselves allows us to realize how much of what we know and experience is actually the result of our own minds.  You're a Christian, and you speak of God being there.  I was once like you.  I remember listening to a dude I worked with who was a friend of mine and decided to be the sound mixer for a Christian band I was in at the time.  I was trying to convert him to be Christian and you know what he told me?

He told me about seeking God and not finding him.  It was sad.  He was on a Christian retreat on Catalina Island, and he did what the counselors told him to do.  He went away to a quiet place in the woods to pray and sat down to speak to God.  God never came.  I used the excuse that God came, but just in a form that he didn't know.  I actually had the audacity to believe that God was right there with that brother because I was there.  But, what if I had been Muslim instead of Christian?  Would you still believe God was there?  If I were trying to convert him to Islam?   

I am not sure.  I am a relatively new christian, and I struggle sometimes with hearing God.  Once you are saved, the Holy Spirit lives within us.  So, for anyone to say that God didn't come it would be because He was already there.  And I know...I know that sounds confusing.  I can't say anything about this man's experience, though.  I can't do "what if's" because I don't even think in terms of questioning the God I know.  Does that make sense?  In other words, I know --like I know with every part of my being-- that God is real and He is with me.  I couldn't imagine Islam.  I already "know" too much.  However, I didn't get here in a blink of an eye.  Truth be told, it took a lifetime.  There wasn't an AHA moment.  It's okay to express yourselves; it's your right.  By no means have I intended to insult anyone and if I have I really am sorry.  I just get excited and I'll admit, it saddens me to see so many people confessing to be in pain, or sad, or defensive, or angry.  Ever just want to hug everyone and make everyone alright in spite of how naive and foolish it is?  For me, I've been down the rabbit hole, and kept digging.  And He STILL called me out of it.  I'm just so grateful sometimes that I want this for everyone.  I hope that whatever paths people take, that they find happiness and joy and peace because it IS out there.  God bless.

 

[seekyefirst]

5 hours ago, Podo said:

If an omniscient creator deity exists, that is responsible for all creation, then it necessarily is responsible for the bad things as well. Thus, for ad things to not be directly due to your god, you are admitting that either your god isn't all-powerful, or that he is all-powerful and simply unwilling to help everyone. Both are bad, but the most obvious and logical conclusion is that the Christian god simply doesn't exist. There is nothing whatsoever making Christianity any more legitimate than the tens of thousands of other deities created by myths in all of human history.

No, you have to read Genesis to understand that we were disobedient to God and now we live in a fallen world.  It's really not that complicated, but without a good study of the Word, it's easy to misunderstand the sovereignty of God.  I'm sorry you see things that way; I hope one day you'll see things differently but if I know that everybody has to get to God their own way and in their own time.  I want you to know, though, that God really doesn't make people sick.  And don't get mad; many christians have a hard time believing that!  I hope I didn't upset you with my posts.  No harm intended.  God bless.

[seekyefirst]

10 hours ago, I'mConvinced said:

Boy do I dislike this argument.  If it isn't real what I would have lost is a large part of my life by devoting it to something that doesn't exist.  If it is real then all I have to do is say "I believe" on my death bed and all sins will be forgotten.

LOL. I sooo wish that theology was the deal.  Christianity is not a waste of time; it's the easiest thing you'll ever do.  God bless!

[XenoFish]

This thread is magical thinking at it's best.

[intoyoulikeatrain]

On 1/21/2018 at 11:12 AM, XenoFish said:

God/Jesus are really great guys when you're on their team and they do stuff or you. Screw those who actually need real help. Sorry kid you're going to have to starve, god's helping someone's favorite team win the super bowl.

 

You can't blame Aeon Christ because he's not in the material realm. Our world is ruled by Ialdabaoth. The resurrected Jesus without the Christ taught some chosen disciples the way to salvation before he was taken up to heaven.

[XenoFish]

5 minutes ago, intoyoulikeatrain said:

You can't blame Aeon Christ because he's not in the material realm. Our world is ruled by Ialdabaoth. The resurrected Jesus without the Christ taught some chosen disciples the way to salvation before he was taken up to heaven.

[Grandpa Greenman]

11 hours ago, seekyefirst said:

No, you have to read Genesis to understand that we were disobedient to God and now we live in a fallen world.  It's really not that complicated, but without a good study of the Word, it's easy to misunderstand the sovereignty of God.  I'm sorry you see things that way; I hope one day you'll see things differently but if I know that everybody has to get to God their own way and in their own time.  I want you to know, though, that God really doesn't make people sick.  And don't get mad; many christians have a hard time believing that!  I hope I didn't upset you with my posts.  No harm intended.  God bless.

Why is it, Christians think anyone who doesn't believe their brand of mythology, hasn't read their Bible.  Many people read it and because they read it they come to the realization it has a lot of mythological holes in it.  I read it through three times.  First two times I was guided in a Bible class, so I understand how it can be cherry picked and manipulated to brainwash me into belief.  The third time I read it, it was on my own and I had just had a college world religion course, so I had been introduced to other "sacred" texts. So this time I read it as I would read any other book, at face value. When I did that, it just didn't make it as a book to live my life by.  After reading many sacred texts and many secular philosophical texts I came to the conclusion Tolkien had done a wonderful job of combining philosophy with mythology.  They are my go to books for life quotes. Plus, I know who wrote it, unlike the Bible, in which there is really no way to track who really wrote the texts and their motives.  And then there is Star Trek,  it was a revelation, when I realized Star Trek's influence on my core morality in my childhood, which made me realize how inmoral many Biblical ideals are. First read Joseph Campbell's  Power of Myth, before you reread the Bible, it gives you a different view of the mythology we humans create of which the Bible is just one of many.  

  

[Truthseeker007]

20 hours ago, Podo said:

If an omniscient creator deity exists, that is responsible for all creation, then it necessarily is responsible for the bad things as well. Thus, for ad things to not be directly due to your god, you are admitting that either your god isn't all-powerful, or that he is all-powerful and simply unwilling to help everyone. Both are bad, but the most obvious and logical conclusion is that the Christian god simply doesn't exist. There is nothing whatsoever making Christianity any more legitimate than the tens of thousands of other deities created by myths in all of human history.

When researched deep enough you can even see how Christianity is based on older myths, stories and beliefs in human history. There really isn't anything original about Christianity.

[+Sherapy]

21 hours ago, simplybill said:

It may appear that way before you make the commitment. That's the reason we evangelize. It's impossible to prove spiritual matters with material tools, so we tell people our experiences, and we try to show how our lives have changed as the result of God's grace.

I don’t think it matters the path one walks, or what book one references, or what ideology one touts, Bill you can’t honestly think that you couldn’t have made it any other way. Or that grace only shows up via a belief in god. I think when the book or the path or the ideology begins to matter so much that one is defending or crediting, or quoting and arguing or angry insisting  the only possible truth is ones own, we lose sight of independent thought, of seeing moments of grace that are on many paths, we lose sight of the fact we are all in this together, we tell stories to connect and remind us of our humanity, for me, it doesn’t matter the path you walk as much as the wisdom you glean and share along the way. 

I certainly don’t need to be on your path to gain insight; I can observe from behavior, exchanges with others what if any wisdom one has gained, and if I think it is worthwhile/applicable, I go from there. 

For the record, In your case, I find you authentic, humble, and open ended and a delight to talk to. I think you are a good representative of the qualities you have nurtured, that Christianity is lucky to have you, you could be an Athiest and I would say the same, because this is based on my experience with you, which speaks to me the loudest.

And, I will never be a Christian, or want to be, it is simply not my vibe. Lol 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 23, 2018 by Sherapy

[+Sherapy]

1 hour ago, Grandpa Greenman said:

Why is it, Christians think anyone who doesn't believe their brand of mythology, hasn't read their Bible.  Many people read it and because they read it they come to the realization it has a lot of mythological holes in it.  I read it through three times.  First two times I was guided in a Bible class, so I understand how it can be cherry picked and manipulated to brainwash me into belief.  The third time I read it, it was on my own and I had just had a college world religion course, so I had been introduced to other "sacred" texts. So this time I read it as I would read any other book, at face value. When I did that, it just didn't make it as a book to live my life by.  After reading many sacred texts and many secular philosophical texts I came to the conclusion Tolkien had done a wonderful job of combining philosophy with mythology.  They are my go to books for life quotes. Plus, I know who wrote it, unlike the Bible, in which there is really no way to track who really wrote the texts and their motives.  And then there is Star Trek,  it was a revelation, when I realized Star Trek's influence on my core morality in my childhood, which made me realize how inmoral many Biblical ideals are. First read Joseph Campbell's  Power of Myth, before you reread the Bible, it gives you a different view of the mythology we humans create of which the Bible is just one of many.  

  

A million likes! 

You are a wise man GG.

[kartikg]

ok I have cold n cough let me pray to Jesus christ and let's see if he cures me in 5 minutes. l

[Grandpa Greenman]

2 minutes ago, Truthseeker007 said:

When researched deep enough you can even see how Christianity is based on older myths, stories and beliefs in human history. There really isn't anything original about Christianity.

Fireside stories to help put the kids to sleep and entertain predating books, radio, and TV.  That is where all it starts.  I love old stories, especially the stories from societies living as hunter/gatherers.  

[Truthseeker007]

2 minutes ago, Grandpa Greenman said:

Fireside stories to help put the kids to sleep and entertain predating books, radio, and TV.  That is where all it starts.  I love old stories, especially the stories from societies living as hunter/gatherers.  

I am sure that some of the myths and stories are based on things that actually happened but over time you know how stories change. Also some of the stories are based on the movement and positions of stars . As you stated no TV's so the night sky was always something to watch and make a story out of.

[Will Due]

 

Try not to throw out the baby with the bathwater, when it comes to reading the Bible. It does need a wash but when it's cleaned, it's still very valuable. 

 

 

[Truthseeker007]

1 minute ago, Will Due said:

 

Try not to throw out the baby with the bathwater, when it comes to reading the Bible. It does need a wash but when it's cleaned, it's still very valuable. 

 

 

Can you give a few examples to why it would be valuable this day in age?

[XenoFish]

18 minutes ago, kartikg said:

ok I have cold n cough let me pray to Jesus christ and let's see if he cures me in 5 minutes. l