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XenoFish

God is an Idea

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Will Due
1 minute ago, Sherapy said:

Will, in a partnership like a marriage it is two real people working for a common goal i a common reality. There is give and take, ups and downs, emotions etc. etc. 

For you, the idea of god is what? 

 

 

Short answer: the very same thing.

A relationship. 

 

 

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Illyrius
2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I also see the more polytheistic approach was also a means of gains some form of stability in life. To feel in control of a chaotic system.

Where exactly do you see chaos in nature?

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XenoFish
1 minute ago, Sherapy said:

Will, in a partnership like a marriage it is two real people working for a common goal i a common reality. There is give and take, ups and downs, emotions etc. etc. 

For you, the idea of god is what? 

 

There is little change in the concept of marriage, it's the stage that's different. It's always been about two people united (well at one time more than two), but the idea was about survival. 

People will even act a certain way if they think god is watching. It's a self regulating mechanism. Some people need it others, not so much.

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Will Due
5 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

That you want god to fix everything for you, that in and of itself is a very materialist belief.

 

But isn't this the very thing that atheists say is why they won't believe in God?

Because when they see suffering people, they want God to fix everything like a miracle?

So how is this common atheistic idea not a belief about God?

 

 

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Podo
1 minute ago, Will Due said:

 

But isn't this the very thing that atheists say is why they won't believe in God?

Because when they see suffering people, they want God to fix everything like a miracle?

So how is this common atheistic idea not a belief about God?

It depends on how you look at it. That sound pithy, but please bear with me.

If an atheist sees something and thinks "hey, I want god to fix it," then I'd argue that this person isn't an atheist, because they're wanting a mythological figure to affect the material world. If someone looks at a thing and asks "if your god exists, why doesn't it fix this?" that's a different thing, though. It's similar, for sure, but one outlook assumes the default existence of a deity or other powerful entity, while the other does not. Anyone with a default belief in the existence of a deity, therefore, isn't an atheist, they're an angry theist of one stripe or another.

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Essan

God is a construct to answer the question "why?" - the most fundamental question in the universe and one our monkey curiosity constantly demands an explanation to.  It makes life soooooooooo much easier.   And is much more satisfactory that "I don't know".  

But as humans evolve, that answer becomes less acceptable.   And the fact "we don't know ..... yet" more palatable.  At least, among the more enlightened,

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XenoFish
2 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

But isn't this the very thing that atheists say is why they won't believe in God?

Because when they see suffering people, they want God to fix everything like a miracle?

So how is this common atheistic idea not a belief about God?

Let me ask you Will. Do you want god to solve all your problems? If not, why do you believe? Does your belief give you some form of security and comfort?

People suffer and we are the ones who can do something about it in real time. Expecting some magical fix is a waste of time. A 1000 hours of prayer vs. a 1000 hours of effort. Which is more effective?

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Will Due
1 minute ago, Podo said:

It depends on how you look at it. That sound pithy, but please bear with me.

If an atheist sees something and thinks "hey, I want god to fix it," then I'd argue that this person isn't an atheist, because they're wanting a mythological figure to affect the material world. If someone looks at a thing and asks "if your god exists, why doesn't it fix this?" that's a different thing, though. It's similar, for sure, but one outlook assumes the default existence of a deity or other powerful entity, while the other does not. Anyone with a default belief in the existence of a deity, therefore, isn't an atheist, they're an angry theist of one stripe or another.

 

That's a very good statement.

 

 

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Sherapy
5 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

Short answer: the very same thing.

A relationship. 

 

 

 

The relationship I have with my husband is reality based, 

Meaning he isn't a mental construct. 

I can prove him. 

 

 

 

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Essan
10 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

But isn't this the very thing that atheists say is why they won't believe in God?

Because when they see suffering people, they want God to fix everything like a miracle?

So how is this common atheistic idea not a belief about God?

 

 

You clearly have a fundamental misunderstanding of atheism.  And logic

For the record, just because I do not believe in fairy godmothers does not mean I wonder why fairy godmothers don't give every girl glass slippers ;)

Edited by Essan
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Will Due
2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Let me ask you Will. Do you want god to solve all your problems? If not, why do you believe? Does your belief give you some form of security and comfort?

People suffer and we are the ones who can do something about it in real time. Expecting some magical fix is a waste of time. A 1000 hours of prayer vs. a 1000 hours of effort. Which is more effective?

 

Effort. And more effort.

I want to know how to help God. When he helps me to know how to do this, I go to work and try to do my best.

 

 

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Illyrius
17 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I also see the more polytheistic approach was also a means of gains some form of stability in life. To feel in control of a chaotic system. Make a offering to the harvest god/ess in hopes of having food. Or the huntsman god for a good hunt. Plus these things change peoples perception. The hunter might become acutely aware of their surrounds, the farmer might take note of the weather and see the pattern, know when to plant and harvest at the right time, though they would both believe this to be a blessing from their gods. I can actually see the psychological benefit of such beliefs. Although on the surface they seem quite irrational.

Nature is not chaotic, but it is unpredictable to a certain degree. In times before development of other tools for prediction people were naturaly aware that there are forces which pull the strings of nature behind material phenomena, the fact that people have developed instruments which reduce this unpredictability does not mean that nature will ever be predictable because it is not deterministic system but a system of unpredictable order, a living spirit and not a machine.

Edited by Mr. Argon
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Will Due
1 minute ago, Essan said:

You clearly have a fundamental misunderstanding of atheism.  And logi

For the record, just because I do not believe in fairy godmothers does not mean I wonder why fairy godmothers don't give every girl glass slippers ;)

 

You already said this.

 

 

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Essan
1 minute ago, Will Due said:

 

Effort. And more effort.

I want to know how to help God. When he helps me to know how to do this, I go to work and try to do my best.

 

 

Why should an omnipotent being who created everything - billions of worlds teeming with life across thousands of millions of galaxies, and is watching everyone one of them personally every second, need help?

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Sherapy
6 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

Effort. And more effort.

I want to know how to help God. When he helps me to know how to do this, I go to work and try to do my best.

 

 

Effort towards what? 

 

 

Edited by Sherapy

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Will Due
Just now, Essan said:

Why should an omnipotent being who created everything - billions of worlds teeming with life across thousands of millions of galaxies, and is watching everyone one of them personally every second, need help?

 

When I look around, I see two parts to reality.

First, I see the stars and the rivers and valleys, the natural world that was created and evolved in nature.

Second, I see other things that are created by man. Houses, cameras, TVs and so forth.

There are many things that are created by man in partnership with God.

That's my answer.

 

 

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XenoFish
8 minutes ago, Will Due said:

I want to know how to help God. When he helps me to know how to do this, I go to work and try to do my best.

What if god doesn't need your help? What if these things you perceive to be god's help are just you being more aware of a coincidence?

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Will Due
3 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Effort towards what? 

 

 

 

The same thing you make real effort towards I guess.

 

 

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Will Due
1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

What if god doesn't need your help? What if these things you perceive to be god's help are just you being more aware of a coincidence?

 

Isn't it apparent that God can't or won't do everything?

 

 

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XenoFish
1 minute ago, Will Due said:

 

Isn't it apparent that God can't or won't do everything?

 

 

If you're not going to answer my questions Will I would like you to just leave the thread. We've already had a burnout over this. So would you kindly answer them? 

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Liquid Gardens
59 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

This is along the lines of what I think too, that god is a cultural idiom which means many things, depending on who you are talking to.

I think the some  religions are vying to be "right" about their idea of god. 

In Philosophy, god is the idea of infinite perfection which is basically the equivalent of agnosticism.

In Buddhism there is no acknowledged god, same with Athiesm. 

It seems some are seeking validation for their idea of god.

On occasion, once in a blue moon along comes a person who believes their idea of god is real, they got lost in the idea I suppose. 

Hi Sheri,

I didn't quite follow your last sentence, it's my impression that there are billions of people who believe their idea of god is real and it's not once in a blue moon.  I may be misinterpreting the last comma though, maybe it means that of the many people who believe their idea of god is real, once in a blue moon someone takes it too far and gets lost in it.

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Will Due
Just now, XenoFish said:

If you're not going to answer my questions Will I would like you to just leave the thread. We've already had a burnout over this. So would you kindly answer them? 

 

Jeez, you should be a drill sergeant. Alright alright!

 

Quote

What if god doesn't need your help? What if these things you perceive to be god's help are just you being more aware of a coincidence?

 

I look at it this way. There's a reason God wants our help. He could do it all if he wanted to, but then what would we do?

We'd probably be some over the top spoiled brats, don't ya think?

 

 

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XenoFish
1 minute ago, Will Due said:

 

Jeez, you should be a drill sergeant. Alright alright!

 

 

I look at it this way. There's a reason God wants our help. He could do it all if he wanted to, but then what would we do?

We'd probably be some over the top spoiled brats, don't ya think?

 

 

If god is an idea. Then we are really doing our own will or at worst the will of another. Then you are only bowing before the concept of your god. 

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Will Due
9 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

If god is an idea. Then we are really doing our own will or at worst the will of another. Then you are only bowing before the concept of your god. 

 

I've already said this but, if God is only an idea, and isn't real, then so can the idea that what I just said is true.

In other words, an idea can be true or not.

Even the idea that another idea is false.

 

 

Edited by Will Due
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Hammerclaw

Well, they say God is Love, although I don't see it that way, at all. Belief in both are emotions, intangible, unquantifiable--yet based on the personal experiences of some, insisted to exist. From my own personal perspective I see second hand evidence of belief in both all around me, the certainty in the eyes, the insistence of devotion. Yet, for my part, I have just as much lack of faith in love as a personal reality as others do in God. Both are beautiful ideas, but I perceive no substantive evidence of either, only second-hand evidence of belief in them. Love, like God, has no substance, save in the electrochemical impulses in the brain that generate the thought, the feeling and belief in them. In the end, it all turns to ash taking all thought of Love and God with it.  Love, like God, is a remarkable illusion, a beautiful abstraction many find necessary for comfort, for happiness, for contentment. Best we embrace them for what they are, or not as the case may be and not over-analyze too much.

Edited by Hammerclaw
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