Falcon Heavy set to launch on February 6th

[Derek Willis]

2 hours ago, Merc14 said:

One of the problems is that mating inert ballast to the second stage is far less complicated that mating a "living satellite"  there are electrical and communications connections, a tailor made mating ring, etc.  There has to be coordination between the launch team and the satellite team and the satellite requires a specific orbital altitude.  In other words it is expensive and requires time and manpower to d, especially when compared to an inert ballast load.  Lastly, no matter how willing to take a risk teh satellite's owner is there is still a value to the satellite or why launch the bloody thing in the first place?  Why go through all that when the launch itself is specifically designed to observe how your new rocket works and why bother to carry a satellite that the owner is willing to take a 50/50 chance on it being destroyed?  How worthwhile could the thing be if the owner doesn't care if it gets destroyed?

You must know far more than Elon Musk then because he said  that the heavy proved to be far more complex than they had originally thought and it took many more years to accomplish than he ever thought it would.  Also, teh Falcon has 9 engines, the heavy has 27.

Elon Musk speech to ISS R&D Conference

There is a lot of risk associated with the Falcon Heavy. There is a real good chance that the vehicle does not make it to orbit ... I hope it makes far enough away from the pad that it does not cause pad damage. I would consider even that a win, to be honest. ... I think Falcon Heavy is going to be a great vehicle. There is just so much that is really impossible to test on the ground. We'll do our best. ... It actually ended up being way harder to do Falcon Heavy than we thought. At first it sounds real easy; you just stick two first stages on as strap-on boosters. How hard can that be? But then everything changes. [the loads change, aerodynamics totally change, tripled vibration and acoustics, you break the qualification levels on all the hardware, redesign the center core airframe, separation systems] ... Really way, way more difficult than we originally thought. We were pretty naive about that. ... but optimized, it's 2 1/2 times the payload capability of Falcon 9.

I agree with everything you have said. However, it still sends shivers down my spine when I think about the first launch of the shuttle in 1981. The shuttle was more complicated than the Falcon Heavy, yet NASA were confident enough to fly it first time with two men on board. I doubt they would do that now.   

[toast]

4 hours ago, seanjo said:

You underestimate the interchangeability that a private company will demand. The Falcon Heavy uses 9 Merlin 1D main engines, a tried and tested engine, the controls and software are all proven tech. 

Thats the written proof that your understanding of the complexity of an advanced spacecraft is very low. Just for your info, it requires a brand new software for the synchronisation and control of a pack of 9 main engines because you cannot run 9 separate engines with 9 separate software sets on one spacecraft.

Edited February 7, 2018 by toast

[rashore]

On 2/6/2018 at 5:47 PM, seanjo said:

The boosters landing was impressive. Still can't get past the waste of launching a car. There must be a thousand Uni's that would have taken a chance at an experiment or satellite.

Having finally taken a few minutes to watch some car in space action. I have to disagree with you that it's a waste. Mr. Musk was brilliant to launch his car into space. His giant epic rocket shooting his epic Tesla on a space ride with camera... it's a 24/7 promotional ad that regular folk will want to watch and check in on on a regular basis. A lot of regular folks probably wouldn't have cared much for other experiments much like they don't usually care about a lot of space experiments, but the car in space makes it very cool and relatable. Many kids have tinkered with putting fireworks or rockets onto their toy cars, and this is the grown up version. I bet Sir Richard over at Virgin is just choking green at this cleverness.

I realize you guys are all more discussing the scientific parts of test flights and ballast and such.. but that aside. Mr. Musk would have been foolish to have handed this opportunity off to someone else. At least until the cameras die and whatever else dies on the car, it's just as useful as any other satellite of cameras in space. It just so happens to be much more aesthetically pleasing and fun and easier to imagine you are on the ride to Mars with this.

[Timothy]

I would love to see a launch in person one day, but the footage is more than enough to keep me sated for now. Amazing! 

Cue the plethora of YouTube videos claiming that debris etc. are UFO’s. 

[Astra.]

Unlike some of the more techy and smarter guys in here who know all about the workings of a rocket such as engines etc...well, I'm totally clueless when it comes to that type of stuff ..

All I do know is that Elon Musk just didn't talk about it. He actually made this happen. I guess if somebody had told me ten or more years ago that someone was going to launch their car into space, with a mannequin called 'Starman' sitting at the wheel. I probably would have laughed my head off. To think that this has now actually happened, and as surreal as it is. I take my hat off to the man for such an awesome feat - including the help and co-ordination by NASA. So congratulations to all involved 

I only wish that the wonderful and talented David Bowie could have been here to see it as well. 

 

 

[Merc14]

2 hours ago, rashore said:

Having finally taken a few minutes to watch some car in space action. I have to disagree with you that it's a waste. Mr. Musk was brilliant to launch his car into space. His giant epic rocket shooting his epic Tesla on a space ride with camera... it's a 24/7 promotional ad that regular folk will want to watch and check in on on a regular basis. A lot of regular folks probably wouldn't have cared much for other experiments much like they don't usually care about a lot of space experiments, but the car in space makes it very cool and relatable. Many kids have tinkered with putting fireworks or rockets onto their toy cars, and this is the grown up version. I bet Sir Richard over at Virgin is just choking green at this cleverness.

I realize you guys are all more discussing the scientific parts of test flights and ballast and such.. but that aside. Mr. Musk would have been foolish to have handed this opportunity off to someone else. At least until the cameras die and whatever else dies on the car, it's just as useful as any other satellite of cameras in space. It just so happens to be much more aesthetically pleasing and fun and easier to imagine you are on the ride to Mars with this.

I agree with you and  the car was brilliant, especially since it was Musk's actual car!  Just so every knows, however, the feed is dead, it died with the car's battery, from which it was running, that night at 11:28 PM, if I remember correctly.  Still, loved it and very much enjoyed watching the whole thing!

 

On 2/6/2018 at 7:40 PM, Waspie_Dwarf said:

Not on this flight, it was fairly standard. The only real difference is that whilst the side boosters were firing it was not at full throttle.

Future Falcon Heavy missions will have fuel from the side boosters pumped into the centre core, with the centre core at full throttle whilst the side boosters are still attached, This will mean that the Falcon Heavy will have even more lift off thrust than this mission. For this version the side boosters will also need to be modified. However none of these modifications should effect the ability of the cores to successfully land.

To loft the maximum payload into orbit the Falcon Heavy would need to deplete the fuel in all the cores during ascent, meaning that none of them would be recovered. SapceX already do this with the Falcon 9, sometimes the payload is either too heavy, or need too much speed at first stage separation, and it then operates like a conventional launcher with no attempt at first stage recovery.

Waspie, hate to disagree but all three Falcons were altered, the side cores slightly but the central core substantially.   The speech I linked earlier alludes to the problems they encountered with vibration and support but I did read something about the subject a few months ago.  I'll look around and try to find the link again.

Edit: This talks a little about it but it isn't the article. https://spaceflightnow.com/2017/05/10/first-core-of-spacexs-falcon-heavy-rocket-fired-in-texas/

I believe this is it and link to his speech.https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2017/07/falcon-heavy-prepares-debut-musk-urges-caution-expectations/

Enjoy fellow space geeks, we are living through a modern renaissance age!

Edited February 8, 2018 by Merc14

[Derek Willis]

8 hours ago, Astra. said:

Unlike some of the more techy and smarter guys in here who know all about the workings of a rocket such as engines etc...well, I'm totally clueless when it comes to that type of stuff ..

All I do know is that Elon Musk just didn't talk about it. He actually made this happen. I guess if somebody had told me ten or more years ago that someone was going to launch their car into space, with a mannequin called 'Starman' sitting at the wheel. I probably would have laughed my head off. To think that this has now actually happened, and as surreal as it is. I take my hat off to the man for such an awesome feat - including the help and co-ordination by NASA. So congratulations to all involved 

I only wish that the wonderful and talented David Bowie could have been here to see it as well. 

Well, Mr Musk has already said Space-X is going to send people to Mars in the not too distant future. Perhaps some people are still laughing their heads off at that, but they are going to look as foolish as the people who ten years ago - and far more recently - doubted his ability to become a serious operator in the space industry. Space-X's technical achievements have been amazing, as has their creation of 7,000 jobs over the last decade. Personally, I hope he and his colleagues set up a company to develop nuclear fusion, as that would go a long way to getting the world out of the mess it is in. 

[Astra.]

2 hours ago, Derek Willis said:

Well, Mr Musk has already said Space-X is going to send people to Mars in the not too distant future. Perhaps some people are still laughing their heads off at that, but they are going to look as foolish as the people who ten years ago - and far more recently - doubted his ability to become a serious operator in the space industry. Space-X's technical achievements have been amazing, as has their creation of 7,000 jobs over the last decade. Personally, I hope he and his colleagues set up a company to develop nuclear fusion, as that would go a long way to getting the world out of the mess it is in. 

Thanks for that extra info Derek. As I haven't been keeping close tabs on Space-X in general. Except for the latest news concerning the launch of his rocket.

Anyway, I would certainly imagine that there will be many, many more folk taking far more interest in Mr Musk and what he is getting up to as far as further technology goes, especially after this latest amazing accomplishment.

I'm also sure, that there will be fewer people laughing at any future ideas that he presents from now on as well. 

Hmm, well I know absolutely nothing about nuclear physics. So is this what he plans to do next, as in setting up a company to develop nuclear fusion ?  

[Stiff]

19 hours ago, Astra. said:

Unlike some of the more techy and smarter guys in here who know all about the workings of a rocket such as engines etc...well, I'm totally clueless when it comes to that type of stuff ..

All I do know is that Elon Musk just didn't talk about it. He actually made this happen. I guess if somebody had told me ten or more years ago that someone was going to launch their car into space, with a mannequin called 'Starman' sitting at the wheel. I probably would have laughed my head off. To think that this has now actually happened, and as surreal as it is. I take my hat off to the man for such an awesome feat - including the help and co-ordination by NASA. So congratulations to all involved 

I only wish that the wonderful and talented David Bowie could have been here to see it as well. 

 

 

Agree totally with all of this. I've always admired the man and I hope this latest adventure will mute the doubters and haters, at least for a short while anyway.

And yes, I think Bowie would have had more than a slight smirk on his face and a warm glow inside

 

 

 

 

[Astra.]

2 hours ago, Stiff said:

Agree totally with all of this. I've always admired the man and I hope this latest adventure will mute the doubters and haters, at least for a short while anyway.

Yes, he's done exceptionally well. There's no doubt about it. What I also admire about the guy, is his modesty.

Even as wealthy as he is, he can still be humble.

Oh, there will always be the doubters and the haters that will try and pull another's accomplishments down in one way or another. It usually boils down to jealousy.

2 hours ago, Stiff said:

And yes, I think Bowie would have had more than a slight smirk on his face and a warm glow inside

 

Absolutely ..

[Waspie_Dwarf]

On 2/7/2018 at 9:32 PM, Derek Willis said:

I agree with everything you have said. However, it still sends shivers down my spine when I think about the first launch of the shuttle in 1981. The shuttle was more complicated than the Falcon Heavy, yet NASA were confident enough to fly it first time with two men on board. I doubt they would do that now.   

It was an over confidence, as later accidents showed.

It was also totally necessary as the shuttle was not designed to be capable of flight without a crew on board. In that respect it was no different to any airliner or fighter jet, they have pilots on board for the first flight because they need pilots on board for the first flight (the computers were, after all, designed in the 1970's).

What is VERY telling is that the first mission, STS 1 may have had two crew on board but it had nothing in the payload bay.

You are almost certainly right that NASA would not fly a crew on a maiden flight again, but what they certainly would not do now is fly a mission without a launch escape system.

[Merc14]

Interesting article on SpaceX's use of  multiple rockets in both Falcon 9 and the Heavy rather than just a very few big ones and why the N-1 failed  https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/02/musks-inspiration-for-27-engines-modern-computer-clusters/

[BorizBadinov]

3 hours ago, Waspie_Dwarf said:

It was an over confidence, as later accidents showed.

It was also totally necessary as the shuttle was not designed to be capable of flight without a crew on board. In that respect it was no different to any airliner or fighter jet, they have pilots on board for the first flight because they need pilots on board for the first flight (the computers were, after all, designed in the 1970's).

What is VERY telling is that the first mission, STS 1 may have had two crew on board but it had nothing in the payload bay.

You are almost certainly right that NASA would not fly a crew on a maiden flight again, but what they certainly would not do now is fly a mission without a launch escape system.

One of the wonderful aspects of todays technology is a flight crew is no longer a necessity.

One of the anecdotes I recall reading about was before they changed to flat screen monitors the old crts in the sts flights had to be shut off for launch. If it was me that would be an important time to know what's up. Can you imagine launching staring at blank screens? 

Brave men and women. True pioneers

[Derek Willis]

11 hours ago, Waspie_Dwarf said:

It was an over confidence, as later accidents showed.

It was also totally necessary as the shuttle was not designed to be capable of flight without a crew on board. In that respect it was no different to any airliner or fighter jet, they have pilots on board for the first flight because they need pilots on board for the first flight (the computers were, after all, designed in the 1970's).

What is VERY telling is that the first mission, STS 1 may have had two crew on board but it had nothing in the payload bay.

You are almost certainly right that NASA would not fly a crew on a maiden flight again, but what they certainly would not do now is fly a mission without a launch escape system.

I agree it was over-confidence. This was demonstrated by the first launch itself when structural damage was done due to the greater back-pressure caused when the solid boosters ignited. The commander of the mission, John Young, said that during the launch he wasn't informed of some of the damage registered by sensors and sent to Mission Control. He added that if he had of known he would have aborted the mission because the damage could have caused problems during re-entry.

I have always wondered why the shuttle could not fly without a crew. During 1988 the one and only flight of Buran, the Soviet version of the shuttle, was crew-less and flew entirely automatically. Were the Soviet's computers that far in advance of NASA's? I have a vague recollection of the shuttle's avionics being upgraded and that later flights could have been automatic.

There were ejector seats for the pilots during the first four shuttle flights. However, John Young said he doubted they would have been any use except during the first few seconds of the flight. He also said that ditching the shuttle in the Atlantic was something he was glad he never had to do.

[internetperson]

On 2/6/2018 at 9:36 PM, Astra. said:

Wow, lucky you. That would be pretty cool seeing this launch (or any for that matter) from your own backyard. I hope you were able to get some good snap shots. 

I sorta forgot about it haha, I'm kicking myself over it. I was outside all day too, all I had to do was look south and up.

I did want to watch for this one because I can't always see the launches ever since the shuttle was scrapped. I'm assuming this is due to smaller rockets. It is pretty cool though, just the fact that I'm about 2hrs away and I can still see these launches.  I remember we (Jacksonville/North FL) had a sonic boom once from the shuttle entering the atmosphere that was incredible. Long time ago but pretty cool regardless.

[Calibeliever]

Up until 3 days ago Elon Musk was the second coolest human on the planet behind Sir Richard Branson ... but if launching your car into the asteroid belt doesn't get you moved to number 1, I don't know what could. Congratulations Mr. Musk on becoming the world's coolest person this week. Cheers.

[Merc14]

43 minutes ago, internetperson said:

I sorta forgot about it haha, I'm kicking myself over it. I was outside all day too, all I had to do was look south and up.

I did want to watch for this one because I can't always see the launches ever since the shuttle was scrapped. I'm assuming this is due to smaller rockets. It is pretty cool though, just the fact that I'm about 2hrs away and I can still see these launches.  I remember we (Jacksonville/North FL) had a sonic boom once from the shuttle entering the atmosphere that was incredible. Long time ago but pretty cool regardless.

I used to do a lot of business in Orlando so got to see three shuttle launches, one at night.  The night launch was especially awesome. 

[Mr.United_Nations]

Got a pic of that?

[Merc14]

19 minutes ago, Mr.United_Nations said:

Got a pic of that?

No sorry, it was a long time ago and we ran out from inside a bar to watch, never even thought about taking a picture.  Hell, I may have still had a flip phone.

[Astra.]

4 hours ago, internetperson said:

I sorta forgot about it haha, I'm kicking myself over it. I was outside all day too, all I had to do was look south and up.

Aww, that's a bummer. But never mind.

There's still some fantastic footage of the launch and some great images that you can enjoy.  

4 hours ago, internetperson said:

I did want to watch for this one because I can't always see the launches ever since the shuttle was scrapped. I'm assuming this is due to smaller rockets. It is pretty cool though, just the fact that I'm about 2hrs away and I can still see these launches.  I remember we (Jacksonville/North FL) had a sonic boom once from the shuttle entering the atmosphere that was incredible. Long time ago but pretty cool regardless.

Yes, it's great that you are able to see the launches without having to travel too far. The sound of the sonic boom must have been incredible after the shuttle had entered at the time. Cool stuff indeed ..

[internetperson]

22 hours ago, Merc14 said:

I used to do a lot of business in Orlando so got to see three shuttle launches, one at night.  The night launch was especially awesome. 

When was this? You mean launches in general? Regardless yeah it's fun to see the news play it live; the rocket goes off, you run outside and can't see anything for about a minute then you see the rocket streaking in the sky. Looks like it's going the wrong way.

[Nzo]

I seen the full launch and it was fantastic. The boosters landed perfectly. Hopefully it will usher in more space missions. My only problem with the whole thing is that they missed the orbit they were aiming for. And my mind being what it is, cannot help to think that somehow the car will start a chain reaction by hitting an asteroid in the asteroid belt. This could eventually send an asteroid towards earth.  Yes, I agree to paranoid but anything is possible.

[Merc14]

9 hours ago, internetperson said:

When was this? You mean launches in general? Regardless yeah it's fun to see the news play it live; the rocket goes off, you run outside and can't see anything for about a minute then you see the rocket streaking in the sky. Looks like it's going the wrong way.

Late 90's, early 2000's.  Everything is teleconferencing now so rarely get down there today.

7 hours ago, Nzo said:

I seen the full launch and it was fantastic. The boosters landed perfectly. Hopefully it will usher in more space missions. My only problem with the whole thing is that they missed the orbit they were aiming for. And my mind being what it is, cannot help to think that somehow the car will start a chain reaction by hitting an asteroid in the asteroid belt. This could eventually send an asteroid towards earth.  Yes, I agree to paranoid but anything is possible.

The first stage (center booster) crashed into the ocean but it was the first of its kind so I am sure they will learn a great deal from the crash. Regardless, safely landing the boosters was a peripheral thing compared to actually successfully launching the Heavy and that went off great.

[Astra.]

16 hours ago, Nzo said:

 my mind being what it is, cannot help to think that somehow the car will start a chain reaction by hitting an asteroid in the asteroid belt. This could eventually send an asteroid towards earth.

No, I think any chance of an asteroid hurtling towards earth because the car collided with one would be extremely unlikely.

I would imagine the car would come off second best though. 

[Derek Willis]

53 minutes ago, Astra. said:

No, I think any chance of an asteroid hurtling towards earth because the car collided with one would be extremely unlikely.

I agree. There are many rocket stages in orbit around the Sun after being fired to send probes to the planets over the last fifty-odd years. As far as I know, none have collided with an asteroid.