POTUS State Of the Union Address 2018

[+DieChecker]

On 1/31/2018 at 7:28 AM, Dark_Grey said:

Alienating a lot of voters to gain a few? Most Democrat voters are reasonable people (most people are more center in general,) so I imagine just about anyone watching the show would have the same feelings toward the "sore losers". 

On 1/31/2018 at 7:21 AM, Farmer77 said:

It was a calculated political move to shore up the far left side of their base who don't view it as pouting but as taking a moral stance.    

That's partly why Clinton lost the election. Catering to people she already had in the bag, and neglecting those who would have swung the vote.

I don't see this as an effective tactic to take back the House in 2018 elections. But... They can't hammer on the Economy, so identity politics is basically the only big kitty they have in the game.

 

[Farmer77]

32 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

That's partly why Clinton lost the election. Catering to people she already had in the bag, and neglecting those who would have swung the vote.

She actually didn't have the true far left vote in the bag, at all. Both sides of the media have done a fantastic job of taking her lip service and forming her into visions they wanted to see - despite the evidence of racism, elitism and the whole war monger thing.  

Trump won because Hillary sucked but not because she was too far left, shes a freakin neocon. 

 

[.ZZ.]

I'll just leave this here.

 

[Farmer77]

Well duh

Of Course Trump Is Lying About His State of the Union Ratings

 

Quote

President Trump has told a lot of brazen lies in his first year in office, but few are as easily exposed as the one he told Thursday morning about the TV ratings for his first State of the Union address.

 

[SHaYap]

One things is for sure ... pots, pans and kettles sure makes for a lot of noise ...

~

[Myles]

On 1/31/2018 at 10:28 AM, Dark_Grey said:

Alienating a lot of voters to gain a few? Most Democrat voters are reasonable people (most people are more center in general,) so I imagine just about anyone watching the show would have the same feelings toward the "sore losers". 

I think most of both parties are reasonable people.    They just have their priorities lined up differently.  

[Kenemet]

1 hour ago, Farmer77 said:

She actually didn't have the true far left vote in the bag, at all. Both sides of the media have done a fantastic job of taking her lip service and forming her into visions they wanted to see - despite the evidence of racism, elitism and the whole war monger thing.  

Trump won because Hillary sucked but not because she was too far left, shes a freakin neocon. 

 

Trump won because he got the electoral college votes.

He did not win the popular vote.

[Merc14]

27 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

Trump won because he got the electoral college votes.

He did not win the popular vote.

So what?  The didn't run to win the popular vote, he rightly ran to win the electoral, something Clinton pointedly failed to do and the results are what you see today.   Hillary DID try and win the popular vote, in fact money earmarked for those battleground flyover states was sent to CA, NY and other high population blue states in order to make sure she won the popular vote as well as the electoral.  After that little boo boo the democrats have bragging rights for winning a race no one else was running and the republicans have their candidate in the White House.  Congrats! 

[Farmer77]

3 minutes ago, Merc14 said:

So what?  The didn't run to win the popular vote, he rightly ran to win the electoral, something Clinton pointedly failed to do and the results are what you see today.   Hillary DID try and win the popular vote, in fact money earmarked for those battleground flyover states was sent to CA, NY and other high population blue states in order to make sure she won the popular vote as well as the electoral.  After that little boo boo the democrats have bragging rights for winning a race no one else was running and the republicans have their candidate in the White House.  Congrats! 

[Dark_Grey]

2 hours ago, .ZZ. said:

Pretty much. The DNC have boxed themselves in to a corner by focusing on the fringe issues. They are pushing themselves further and further out to sea while shaking their fists at everyone else.

They gambled on "identity politics" and they lost. Most people are tired of hearing about it and they want more focus on real issues. Hence the overwhelming approval rating of Trump's SOTU address. 

 

[Paranormal Panther]

6 hours ago, Dark_Grey said:

Pretty much. The DNC have boxed themselves in to a corner by focusing on the fringe issues. They are pushing themselves further and further out to sea while shaking their fists at everyone else.

They gambled on "identity politics" and they lost. Most people are tired of hearing about it and they want more focus on real issues. Hence the overwhelming approval rating of Trump's SOTU address. 

 

Their actions remind me of the proverbial definition of insanity. They double down and triple down on the things that predictably and repeatedly lead to failure. Hillary, Pelosi, Ellison, and the DNC chair all come to mind. The abysmal speech, by Joe Kennedy, is Exhibit 520.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

7 hours ago, Kenemet said:

Trump won because he got the electoral college votes.

He did not win the popular vote.

Neither did Bush or, IIRC, Obama. 

[Kenemet]

29 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Neither did Bush or, IIRC, Obama. 

I doublechecked.  Obama won the electoral college both times.

However, I was not discussing voting in general, only offering a correction to the statement about Trump winning the election and the implication that it was due to a majority vote.

[Kenemet]

7 hours ago, Merc14 said:

So what?  The didn't run to win the popular vote, he rightly ran to win the electoral, something Clinton pointedly failed to do and the results are what you see today.   Hillary DID try and win the popular vote, in fact money earmarked for those battleground flyover states was sent to CA, NY and other high population blue states in order to make sure she won the popular vote as well as the electoral.  After that little boo boo the democrats have bragging rights for winning a race no one else was running and the republicans have their candidate in the White House.  Congrats! 

This does not really jive with what I've read elsewhere.  Trump also intended to win the popular vote, and I think this shows in his constant harping on the size of crowds and the size of his audience.

In any case, my point was to correct the idea that he has the support of the majority of the country.  Indications are that he does not and that he did not actually have this support at the start of his administration.  Now, that's no big sin because other minority-elected Presidents like John Quincy Adams have managed to overcome that.  In fact, looking at other electoral minority presidents, their administrations often see significant changes in the government and in political parties.  Reading about their presidencies gives a lot of insight on how to deal successfully (and in some cases very unsuccessfully) as a minority-elected president.

[Kenemet]

9 hours ago, Myles said:

I think most of both parties are reasonable people.    They just have their priorities lined up differently.  

Agreed.  I've read some interesting pieces about this - in general (for example) Republicans prefer more authoritarian presidents. 

As with all generalizations a lot of contrary stances can be seen. 

[Merc14]

46 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

I doublechecked.  Obama won the electoral college both times.

However, I was not discussing voting in general, only offering a correction to the statement about Trump winning the election and the implication that it was due to a majority vote.

Of course he did!   That is how it works. Why did you have to check twice when every president since Washington has been elected through the electoral college?

36 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

Agreed.  I've read some interesting pieces about this - in general (for example) Republicans prefer more authoritarian presidents. 

As with all generalizations a lot of contrary stances can be seen. 

Wrong.  Please post your examples as that is the complete opposite of reality.  I haven't made a claim so you present your evidence for your scurrilous claim and I will show mine and prove, by evidence, the opposite is true and let's stick to modern times like the last 40 years.  Sounds like fun, maybe we should start a thread one as a mod.

 

 

Edited February 3, 2018 by Merc14

[Alaric]

Obama Referenced Himself Nearly Four Times as Often as Trump in First SOTU Address

“Barack Obama's first State of the Union featured nearly 100 instances of "I" or "me." Trump's speech contained only 26.

Despite the media's constant excoriation of Trump for his purported egomania, Obama seems to have been the president with a "me" complex: in his first 41 speeches, Barack mentioned himself nearly 1,198 times.

In the 2010 SOTU address, Obama used "I" 88 times, along with 10 instances of "me."”

https://www.truthrevolt.org/news/obama-referenced-himself-nearly-four-times-often-trump-first-sotu-address

[Space Commander Travis]

15 hours ago, Kenemet said:

Trump won because he got the electoral college votes.

He did not win the popular vote.

Wel, without wanting to sound like a fervent defender of the big orange man or whatever (that would never do  ), the idea behind the Electoral College notion is that it's more representative geographically isn't it, rather than some areas having disproportionately high influence because they're by far the most heavily populated. 

[Kenemet]

24 minutes ago, Vlad the Mighty said:

Wel, without wanting to sound like a fervent defender of the big orange man or whatever (that would never do  ), the idea behind the Electoral College notion is that it's more representative geographically isn't it, rather than some areas having disproportionately high influence because they're by far the most heavily populated. 

Yes... I do understand the logic behind the setup.  I question if it's relevant nowadays - and of course the founders believed that the Constitution needed to be a living document and to change as the times changed.

[Kenemet]

4 hours ago, Alaric said:

Obama Referenced Himself Nearly Four Times as Often as Trump in First SOTU Address

“Barack Obama's first State of the Union featured nearly 100 instances of "I" or "me." Trump's speech contained only 26.

Despite the media's constant excoriation of Trump for his purported egomania, Obama seems to have been the president with a "me" complex: in his first 41 speeches, Barack mentioned himself nearly 1,198 times.

In the 2010 SOTU address, Obama used "I" 88 times, along with 10 instances of "me."”

https://www.truthrevolt.org/news/obama-referenced-himself-nearly-four-times-often-trump-first-sotu-address

Beyond that, what was your analysis of the SOTU address?  What I'm hearing and reading is that it was unusually inaccurate.

[Space Commander Travis]

9 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

Yes... I do understand the logic behind the setup.  I question if it's relevant nowadays - and of course the founders believed that the Constitution needed to be a living document and to change as the times changed.

Arguably it's even more relevant now given the enormous disparity between the population in the West and East Coasts and the majority of the USA geographically, and what some would consider to be the fact that the policies promoted by the leaders, who are very strongly concentrated in the heavily populated north-east in particular, would seem to have very little interest in the interests of the people in those other parts of the US.

[+DieChecker]

23 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

She actually didn't have the true far left vote in the bag, at all. Both sides of the media have done a fantastic job of taking her lip service and forming her into visions they wanted to see - despite the evidence of racism, elitism and the whole war monger thing.  

Trump won because Hillary sucked but not because she was too far left, shes a freakin neocon. 

Depends. I guess it could be argued that some of them didn't vote at all, but the ones that did... Did a single one (of the far left) vote for Trump? That sounds like "in the bag" to me. 

I didn't mean to imply she, herself, was to the far left. She was basically more centrist then most of the Dems in Congress, but who else would the left vote for? 

[Alaric]

6 hours ago, Kenemet said:

Beyond that, what was your analysis of the SOTU address?  What I'm hearing and reading is that it was unusually inaccurate.

So, should I believe the “fact checker” on the left... or the “fact checker” on the right?

[Alaric]

Trump: “African American and Hispanic unemployment is at historic lows!”

‘Fact Checker’: “False! You lie! You didn’t build that!”

[Alaric]

Trump: “Just as I promised the American People from this podium 11 months ago, we enacted the biggest tax cuts and reform in American history,”

‘Fact Checker’ (Newsweek): “When Trump says that this is the largest tax cut in history, he is including corporate tax cuts, which don’t directly benefit everyday Americans.”

i.e. “When we totally remove the 2nd part of his sentence (reform) and selectively re-define and re-interpret the numbers on the first part... his claim is false.”