Quantum Mysticism - dawning of the New Age

[Illyrius]

 

Edited February 11, 2018 by Illyrius

[MauriOra]

21 hours ago, Will Due said:

 

You know, I absolutely knew you would ask me about that.

You ready? Here's the answer:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

There is only ONE Gods

 

 

Atamarie My Friend..

This is So Hilarious.....ha ha ha..

Your Awesomeness ....

Thankyou Again ..

Mo..xx

[SeekerWCF]

On 2/5/2018 at 1:47 PM, psyche101 said:

My thought is you are just making stuff up. There are differences between GR and QM sure, that only means there is more work to do. Quantum mechanics in no way supports a spiritual universe or nature, it is chaos at a quantum level creating virtual particles constantly, a reaction between two such particles is proposed to have caused the big bang. Obviously you have never read or listened to Lawrence Krauss, Brian Greene or Sean Carroll. 

Connecting the spiritual to QM is Deepak Chopra material, and he is not only unsupported, he is flat out wrong. 

GR works and QM works. We can tell when the sun will come up or eclipse, we can plan out the movements if the stars, QM works, we can see what we predict with the atom smashers we have. Both work, both stand the test of scrutiny, both offer prediction. 

A unifying theory is not going to dismiss all that. It's going to bring them together. They are on very different scales hence the nature of their differences. 

Predicting what particles will fall out of atom smashers is not QM, it's particle physics and falls under the standard model. Qm is about behavior. While I tend to agree that a lot of the things out there are simply creativity or wishful thinking. Particle wave duality, and the uncertainty principle are indeed striking evidences that the fundamental universe is not necessarily based on particles, but instead a function of deeper non physical ( at lease what can be defined as physical) modality.

 

The uncertainty principle and its resulting phenomenon.... particle wave duality & tunneling are striking evidence of intelligent design. Not conclusive obviously, but strong enough evidence to be considered an almost smoking gun or at least a bloody knife.

 

[psyche101]

19 minutes ago, SeekerWCF said:

Predicting what particles will fall out of atom smashers is not QM, it's particle physics and falls under the standard model. Qm is about behavior

The behaviour of the particles as they are separated is what we record with atom smashers, they are intimately linked. 

19 minutes ago, SeekerWCF said:

While I tend to agree that a lot of the things out there are simply creativity or wishful thinking. Particle wave duality, and the uncertainty principle are indeed striking evidences that the fundamental universe is not necessarily based on particles, but instead a function of deeper non physical ( at lease what can be defined as physical) modality.

 

The uncertainty principle and its resulting phenomenon.... particle wave duality & tunneling are striking evidence of intelligent design. Not conclusive obviously, but strong enough evidence to be considered an almost smoking gun or at least a bloody knife.

 

No not really even close, even the pilot wave theory offers sound rational explanation. Intligent design has no merit in this application. The Higgs gives matter, not God. God is a human construct. 

[SeekerWCF]

4 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

The behaviour of the particles as they are separated is what we record with atom smashers, they are intimately linked. 

No not really even close, even the pilot wave theory offers sound rational explanation. Intligent design has no merit in this application. The Higgs gives matter, not God. God is a human construct. 

 

4 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

The behaviour of the particles as they are separated is what we record with atom smashers, they are intimately linked. 

No not really even close, even the pilot wave theory offers sound rational explanation. Intligent design has no merit in this application. The Higgs gives matter, not God. God is a human construct. 

You are not even asking why I said such a thing, and I said nothing about god, though certainly a designer might be considered a god, but he good be a pimply kid in a cosmic garage somewhere to or another the result of another design.

Sigh..... the Higgs does not "give matter." It is responsible for mass. And a Higgs particle is an excitation of the Higgs field. Which is a matmatical field of possibilities permeating the entire universe. 

All physics is linked, but no, the standard model and quantum mechanics are to different things. As I said, the standard model is about classification and categorization, and QM is about behavior.

Anyway 

I said QM is bloody knife to intelligent design theory not because you think someone can explain it with something, but because it's function in the universe is very clear and pointed. Pilot wave theory does no such thing. It's nothing more than a hodgepodge of mathematical visualization that never really stood up to scrutiny. The Copenhagen interpretation remains the most widely accepted interpretation. 

The uncertainty principle demonstrates that the universe conserves processing power. This is precisely what a well thought out intelligent design theory would predict.  

 

 

[Illyrius]

Newton described light as corpuscular phenomena in another words that light is made of particles. This view was challenged, and about 100 years later Thomas Young proved that light produces an interference pattern. What quantum physics is showing us now is that it isn’t either/or wave or particle – but that it is BOTH at the same time.

[Hre2breal]

1 hour ago, SeekerWCF said:

 

You are not even asking why I said such a thing, and I said nothing about god, though certainly a designer might be considered a god, but he good be a pimply kid in a cosmic garage somewhere to or another the result of another design.

Sigh..... the Higgs does not "give matter." It is responsible for mass. And a Higgs particle is an excitation of the Higgs field. Which is a matmatical field of possibilities permeating the entire universe. 

All physics is linked, but no, the standard model and quantum mechanics are to different things. As I said, the standard model is about classification and categorization, and QM is about behavior.

Anyway 

I said QM is bloody knife to intelligent design theory not because you think someone can explain it with something, but because it's function in the universe is very clear and pointed. Pilot wave theory does no such thing. It's nothing more than a hodgepodge of mathematical visualization that never really stood up to scrutiny. The Copenhagen interpretation remains the most widely accepted interpretation. 

The uncertainty principle demonstrates that the universe conserves processing power. This is precisely what a well thought out intelligent design theory would predict.  

 

 

Awesome knowledge you have...Concidering we have had the name Higgs down our throats lately..Informative stuff thanks Seeker WCF....

[Will Due]

 

Back to the topic.

Understanding how the universe works at the "quantum" level, takes more than only materialistic evaluations.

Understanding what's really going in an atom, and especially its constituent parts, requires a level of mind activity that MUST include 

1 hour ago, SeekerWCF said:

a function of deeper non physical

considerations.

Because without them, thinking it can be understood, is absurd. Not to mention most of everything else in life that's actually real.

 

 

[+Liquid Gardens]

15 hours ago, SeekerWCF said:

The uncertainty principle demonstrates that the universe conserves processing power. This is precisely what a well thought out intelligent design theory would predict.  

The uncertainty principle or your interpretation of the uncertainty principle?  Do you agree with this from wiki on their 'Observer' topic? :

"A number of new-age religious or philosophical interpretations of quantum mechanics, notably "consciousness causes collapse", give the observer a special role, or place constraints on who or what can be an observer. There is no peer-reviewed research that backs such claims."

[SeekerWCF]

5 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said:

The uncertainty principle or your interpretation of the uncertainty principle?  Do you agree with this from wiki on their 'Observer' topic? :

"A number of new-age religious or philosophical interpretations of quantum mechanics, notably "consciousness causes collapse", give the observer a special role, or place constraints on who or what can be an observer. There is no peer-reviewed research that backs such claims."

Indeed I do. The observer has nothing to do with it. This has been proven in quite a number of experiments. The collapse of a wave function happens precisely because there CAN be information from its position. It was never who was doing the observing, but always if it could be observed. This is a very key distinction. 

[Illyrius]

Do you remember the double-slit experiment? It's one of the weirder experiments in modern physics, and cuts to the heart of the weirdness of quantum mechanics. Basically, waves that pass through two narrow, parallel slits will form an interference pattern on a screen. This is true for all waves, whether they're light waves, water waves, or sound waves.

 

But light isn't just a wave, it's also a particle called a photon. So what happens if you shoot a single photon at the double slits? Turns out, even though there's only one photon, it still forms an interference pattern. It's as if the photon travels through both slits simultaneously. You can read more about the double slit experiment here.

But wait, because it gets even weirder. As a new episode of PBS's Space Time shows, just by observing the double-slit experiment, the behavior of the photons changes.

The idea behind the double-slit experiment is that even if the photons are sent through the slits one at a time, there's still a wave present to produce the interference pattern. The wave is a wave of probability, because the experiment is set up so that the scientists don't know which of the two slits any individual photon will pass through.

But if they try to find out by setting up detectors in front of each slit to determine which slit the photon really goes through, the interference pattern doesn't show up at all. This is true even if they try setting up the detectors behind the slits. No matter what the scientists do, if they try anything to observe the photons, the interference pattern fails to emerge.

It gets even weirder than that.

A group of scientists tried a variation on the double slit experiment, called the delayed choice experiment. The scientists placed a special crystal at each slit. The crystal splits any incoming photons into a pair of identical photons. One photon from this pair should go on to create the standard interference pattern, while the other travels to a detector. Perhaps with this setup, physicists might successfully find a way to observe the logic-defying behavior of photons.

But it still doesn't work. And here's the really weird part: It doesn't work regardless of when that detection happens. Even if the second photon is detected after the first photon hits the screen, it still ruins the interference pattern. This means that observing a photon can change events that have already happened.

Scientists are still unsure how exactly this whole thing works. It's one of the greatest mysteries of quantum mechanics. Perhaps someday someone will finally be able to solve it.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a22280/double-slit-experiment-even-weirder/

 

[+Liquid Gardens]

2 hours ago, SeekerWCF said:

Indeed I do. The observer has nothing to do with it. This has been proven in quite a number of experiments. The collapse of a wave function happens precisely because there CAN be information from its position. It was never who was doing the observing, but always if it could be observed. This is a very key distinction. 

Cool, but then what do you mean by the universe conserving processing power?  I thought that was the 'minecraft' analogy, where the universe is only manifesting for observers as needed.

[psyche101]

On 12/02/2018 at 9:13 AM, SeekerWCF said:

You are not even asking why I said such a thing, and I said nothing about god, though certainly a designer might be considered a god, but he good be a pimply kid in a cosmic garage somewhere to or another the result of another design.

There is no good reason to consider and grand designer pimples or not. Its purely a human philosophical construct which is not supported by any viable model. 

On 12/02/2018 at 9:13 AM, SeekerWCF said:

Sigh..... the Higgs does not "give matter." It is responsible for mass. And a Higgs particle is an excitation of the Higgs field. Which is a matmatical field of possibilities permeating the entire universe. 

Gives matter mass which means matter can exist. Your works salad won't change that. 

On 12/02/2018 at 9:13 AM, SeekerWCF said:

All physics is linked, but no, the standard model and quantum mechanics are to different things. As I said, the standard model is about classification and categorization, and QM is about behavior.

Not what was said. I referred to the LHC you said the LHC was soley associated with particle physics and I said the LHC records behaviour as well as particles so the two are intimately linked as far as the LHC is concerned. 

Just another one of your word salads. Again, your protests changes nothing here. 

On 12/02/2018 at 9:13 AM, SeekerWCF said:

Anyway 

I said QM is bloody knife to intelligent design theory not because you think someone can explain it with something, but because it's function in the universe is very clear and pointed. Pilot wave theory does no such thing. It's nothing more than a hodgepodge of mathematical visualization that never really stood up to scrutiny. The Copenhagen interpretation remains the most widely accepted interpretation. 

Pilot wave theory is being revisited. 

https://www.quantamagazine.org/pilot-wave-theory-gains-experimental-support-20160516/

On 12/02/2018 at 9:13 AM, SeekerWCF said:

The uncertainty principle demonstrates that the universe conserves processing power. This is precisely what a well thought out intelligent design theory would predict.  

No it's not, an intelligent designer can fix holes and we would see things happen that should not. Billions of years of natural development is not an intelligent design, it just offers that perspective from our vantage point. Incredible that we can see back 13 billion years but some still don't comprehend that time frame. 

[psyche101]

1 hour ago, Illyrius said:

Do you remember the double-slit experiment? It's one of the weirder experiments in modern physics, and cuts to the heart of the weirdness of quantum mechanics. Basically, waves that pass through two narrow, parallel slits will form an interference pattern on a screen. This is true for all waves, whether they're light waves, water waves, or sound waves.

 

But light isn't just a wave, it's also a particle called a photon. So what happens if you shoot a single photon at the double slits? Turns out, even though there's only one photon, it still forms an interference pattern. It's as if the photon travels through both slits simultaneously. You can read more about the double slit experiment here.

But wait, because it gets even weirder. As a new episode of PBS's Space Time shows, just by observing the double-slit experiment, the behavior of the photons changes.

The idea behind the double-slit experiment is that even if the photons are sent through the slits one at a time, there's still a wave present to produce the interference pattern. The wave is a wave of probability, because the experiment is set up so that the scientists don't know which of the two slits any individual photon will pass through.

But if they try to find out by setting up detectors in front of each slit to determine which slit the photon really goes through, the interference pattern doesn't show up at all. This is true even if they try setting up the detectors behind the slits. No matter what the scientists do, if they try anything to observe the photons, the interference pattern fails to emerge.

It gets even weirder than that.

A group of scientists tried a variation on the double slit experiment, called the delayed choice experiment. The scientists placed a special crystal at each slit. The crystal splits any incoming photons into a pair of identical photons. One photon from this pair should go on to create the standard interference pattern, while the other travels to a detector. Perhaps with this setup, physicists might successfully find a way to observe the logic-defying behavior of photons.

But it still doesn't work. And here's the really weird part: It doesn't work regardless of when that detection happens. Even if the second photon is detected after the first photon hits the screen, it still ruins the interference pattern. This means that observing a photon can change events that have already happened.

Scientists are still unsure how exactly this whole thing works. It's one of the greatest mysteries of quantum mechanics. Perhaps someday someone will finally be able to solve it.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a22280/double-slit-experiment-even-weirder/

 

 

 

And yet you can't consider virtual particles coming into existance to produce a natural universe?!??? 

[psyche101]

23 hours ago, Will Due said:

 

Back to the topic.

Understanding how the universe works at the "quantum" level, takes more than only materialistic evaluations.

Understanding what's really going in an atom, and especially its constituent parts, requires a level of mind activity that MUST include 

considerations.

Because without them, thinking it can be understood, is absurd. Not to mention most of everything else in life that's actually real.

 

 

And this revelation is based on what? 

[Will Due]

21 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

And this revelation is based on what? 

 

Living life.

 

 

[jmccr8]

21 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

And this revelation is based on what? 

By pure "Will power.

jmccr8 

[Will Due]

1 minute ago, jmccr8 said:

By pure "Will power.

jmccr8 

 

Now you're gettin it! 

 

 

[jmccr8]

3 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

Now you're gettin it! 

 

 

Not really I use power to the 8.

jmccr8 

[Illyrius]

1 hour ago, psyche101 said:

 

 

And yet you can't consider virtual particles coming into existance to produce a natural universe?!??? 

Depends if they are observed or not.

Edited February 13, 2018 by Illyrius

[Illyrius]

So, what can be the reason that when scientsts put observing devices to see why photon leaves a wave pattern, photon starts to leave a particle pattern? How to interpret that?

[Piney]

3 hours ago, psyche101 said:

No it's not, an intelligent designer can fix holes and we would see things happen that should not. Billions of years of natural development is not an intelligent design, it just offers that perspective from our vantage point. Incredible that we can see back 13 billion years but some still don't comprehend that time frame. 

Like the way the sickle cell mutation was suppose to protect from malaria but instead kills when the marker is in both parents.

This brings back memories of our arguments about the existence of Bigfoot 10 years ago.....You won. From one end to the other of every Piney Woods in the Eastern U.S. I'm empty handed. 

[psyche101]

3 hours ago, Will Due said:

 

Living life.

 

 

[psyche101]

2 hours ago, Illyrius said:

Depends if they are observed or not.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_effect

[psyche101]

1 hour ago, Illyrius said:

So, what can be the reason that when scientsts put observing devices to see why photon leaves a wave pattern, photon starts to leave a particle pattern? How to interpret that?

That the subatomic plays by different rules, how do you interpret it considering your thread title?