Intelligent Design: Evolution 2.0

[Illyrius]

14 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

The Stock Market?

 

[psyche101]

1 hour ago, Illyrius said:

Ok.. ok...

But don't you think, even if mr. Charlies theory is right (and i am not so sure it is),

The theory of evolution is in ad much doubt as doubting the earth orbits the sun, which is not at all,  its both fact and theory. 

1 hour ago, Illyrius said:

that somehow we have a few important thingies which separate us from chimps and other animals - self awareness, art, culture, standing completely upright... to name a few things....

When I was religious I thought man had a divine spark but I've come to learn its just different aspects of evolution. Everything evolves. How we attained intelligence us almost inevitable. Our body shape and bipedal form with opposable thumbs is a winning design incorporating leverage balance sexual reproduction and free hands to start experimenting with, taming fire, increasing meat for a larger brain were less attributes that moved us from hunter gathering into communities where math became important to calculate crops for the resident populations and a few thousand years later here we are with cars and plasma tellies. If we ever mange to contact alien life, it will more than likely look very familiar. Anthropomorphic in design. Evolution takes the easiest path. That's why I pointed out the laryngeal nerve of the giraffe before, its one of Nature's obvious mistakes showing its evolutionary pathway. 

 

These links might surprise you. 

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/475731/

https://www.care2.com/causes/5-animals-who-make-art.html

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koko_(gorilla)

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2013/04/strongest-evidence-animal-culture-seen-monkeys-and-whales

[psyche101]

1 hour ago, MauriOra said:

Hahaha hahahaha hahaha hahaha hahaha..!!! ..

Psychedelic... Your a funny guy .. Love that wit.. Never stop ..!!!

Dude, I'm outs for now ...

But I'll be back.....lolz..

I'll answer both your Posts ..

..

Mo..xx

Did you know the CIA actually spent 20 million dollars on remote viewing hoping to confirm the claim for military applications? Project stargate. That movie is loosely based on the idea. 

It was a 20 million dollar fail. Produced nothing. And that was in 1975 when 20 million went a heck of a long way. 

[psyche101]

1 hour ago, Hammerclaw said:

The Stock Market?

 

[Illyrius]

10 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

When I was religious I thought man had a divine spark but I've come to learn its just different aspects of evolution. Everything evolves. How we attained intelligence us almost inevitable. Our body shape and bipedal form with opposable thumbs is a winning design incorporating leverage balance sexual reproduction and free hands to start experimenting with, taming fire, increasing meat for a larger brain were less attributes that moved us from hunter gathering into communities where math became

OK.

Long ago when i was reading something about Darwin, there was an issue of a missing link or something like that. It was along time ago, so i dont remember. You mentioned "divine spark", now i would like to concentrate upon that. Maybe at some point of evolution this divine spark just happens - it is mythologically expressed in a myth of Promethues.. for example.

What are your thoughts about that?

[psyche101]

1 minute ago, Illyrius said:

OK.

Long ago when i was reading something about Darwin, there was an issue of a missing link or something like that. It was along time ago, so i dont remember.

Its a YEC myth, there's no missing link see... 

But in all seriousness no, there are enough transitional fossils to complete the picture. 

Well. Tree actually but that's another discussion. If you have questions you should open a thread, I'd be happy to share what I know. 

1 minute ago, Illyrius said:

You mentioned "divine spark", now i would like to concentrate upon that. Maybe at some point of evolution this divine spark just happens - it is mythologically expressed in a myth of Promethues.. for example.

What are your thoughts about that?

Its doesn't just happen. It's thousands of years of experimentation, successful mutation and development. Our speech is possible thanks to the foxp2 gene.  Just like there was no first Giraffe, no first Hippo, no first Chicken there was no Adam, there was no biblical eve. Each species gave rise to offspring with mutations that gave them advantages in their niche allowing them to outcompete other species, and passed these mutations onto their offspring, they had further adaptions via mutation and what we see today is the culmination of that diversification to date. 

There was around 7 or more types of human at one point, we are familiar with Neanderthals and have found offshoots like homo florensis, we outcompeted them all. 

Took a good 200,000 or so years to get here and now from those days. 

Fascinating isn't it. 

What a Neanderthal Might Look Like Today in Modern Clothes. 

[Crazy Horse]

16 hours ago, Doug1o29 said:

The Big Bang is an assumption, not a theory.  Let's get the terms right.

Creation is with us today, but so is an expanding universe.  What do we have to go on?  At least out to ten billion light years, there is the total lack of tangible evidence for god.

Energy came from something.  Let's assume that is correct.  THEN:  what came before?  You argue that an intelligence created the universe.  But what created that intelligence?  You just said there was something before the Big Bang.  What was it?

You speak with confidence.  "Confidence" is a technical term in science.  Again, if you're going to use science in an attempt to justify god, at least use the terms correctly.  If I asked you how confident you were, you would answer with a probability.  That could be anything between 0 and 1.  One is absolute certainty and that has about a 0% chance of being true (It would require an exact fit and that never happens; but 99.999% might happen.).  Anything below 50% is more-likely to be wrong than right, so somewhere between 50% and 100%.  And once you gave me a probability, I could calculate the limits of that probability and return an estimate of how likely you are to be wrong, given your own numbers.  Anything else is gibberish, without meaing.

You know the limits of your assumptions.  That's more than many religionists know.

Doug

What came before God? Nothing, God is Infinite, Living, Mind, thats why we call it THE ALL. A bit of a mystery granted, but yet we have life, consciousness and energy that must have originated from somewhere!

You can split hairs over the terms I have used yet the fact remains that something is behind all this energy, animatting our life force, and consciousness too. This is self evident. SOMETHING CANNOT COME FROM NOTHING.

God is a broad term and it has a lot of baggage. A better term would be THE ALL as an Infinite Living Mind. The Absolute  Totality of the Cosmos. THE ALL. Nothing is outside of THE ALL , therefore, the only possible way for creation to manifest is via Mind. THE ALL cannot divide itself, and there is nothing outside of THE ALL, therefore, IT can only create and manifest via mind, thereby still remaining THE ALL.

The how, what, why and when of this ALL will always and forever remain a mystery, much like what science has to say about anything pre Big Bang, but as a starting point for science, for life in general, it works perfectly. Mind before matter, a Conscious Living Cosmos created by MIND.

 

 

[Illyrius]

3 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Its a YEC myth, there's no missing link see... 

But in all seriousness no, there are enough transitional fossils to complete the picture. 

Well. Tree actually but that's another discussion. If you have questions you should open a thread, I'd be happy to share what I know. 

Its doesn't just happen. It's thousands of years of experimentation, successful mutation and development. Our speech is possible thanks to the foxp2 gene.  Just like there was no first Giraffe, no first Hippo, no first Chicken there was no Adam, there was no biblical eve. Each species gave rise to offspring with mutations that gave them advantages in their niche allowing them to outcompete other species, and passed these mutations onto their offspring, they had further adaptions via mutation and what we see today is the culmination of that diversification to date. 

There was around 7 or more types of human at one point, we are familiar with Neanderthals and have found offshoots like homo florensis, we outcompeted them all. 

Took a good 200,000 or so years to get here and now from those days. 

Fascinating isn't it. 

What a Neanderthal Might Look Like Today in Modern Clothes. 

Ok. Thanks for info but since i am not that much into science i don't know what exactly are you talking about in some parts of your text. When you say foxp2 for example it unfortunately means nothing to me. But thanks for the patience anyway.

[Illyrius]

14 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

You can split hairs over the terms I have used yet the fact remains that something is behind all this energy, animatting our life force, and consciousness too. This is self evident. SOMETHING CANNOT COME FROM NOTHING.

[Crazy Horse]

7 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Yes it was:

1. The Flood (Genesis 6-8)
2. The cities of the plain, including Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis 18-19) 
3. The Egyptian firstborn sons during the Passover (Exodus 11-12) 
4. The Canaanites under Moses and Joshua (Numbers 21:2-3; Deuteronomy 20:17; Joshua 6:17, 21) 
5. The Amalekites annihilated by

There was only human involvement under instruction from God on the last two, the first three are by God's hand. 

There they are listed above, if you cannot accept that you worship a murderer that's not my problem and insulting me won't change what has been claimed in your gods name.

Do all the believers suffer in silence? 

This god is a total dick. 

No I'm not, we could use one less reason to see ourselves as different. How many people have died over God peeing contests? 

And with faith becoming more personal we become more fragmented. God is evil. There is no doubt that moving away from God creates better societies as we look out for each other, not God and ourselves. As some come to realise there is no God, they tend to roll up their own sleeves. 

 

'If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them. ¹⁴ 'If a man marries a woman and her _o mother, it is wickedness. They shall be burned with fire, both he and they, that there may be no wickedness among you. ¹⁵ 

You are talking about the God of the Bible.

Im not.

I am talkings about THE ALL, The Source, The Absolute. This is more than the God of the Bible, there is nothing outside of this  "God" nothing. This Divine Being created everything and everyone, there is no division within this concept. The Biblical God is very divisive, you are either with Him or against Him, this had led to many wars and conflicts, this is an outdated and barbaric way to think about things.

So FYI, I am not talking anything divisive, I am saying that God, you and I and the whole of creation are One Thing. This belief if widely accepted and expounded would create peace on Earth. Whether you actually believe in something called God is almost irrelevent, you can believe in the Beauty and Mysteries of Life, or the Nobility of Love..

Just the belief in "Oneness" would change everything.

[psyche101]

22 minutes ago, Illyrius said:

Ok. Thanks for info but since i am not that much into science i don't know what exactly are you talking about in some parts of your text. When you say foxp2 for example it unfortunately means nothing to me. But thanks for the patience anyway.

Just ask about any individual aspect, I'm more then happy to break it down. Take the elephant one bite at a time. 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/FOXP2

[psyche101]

3 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

You are talking about the God of the Bible.

Im not.

I am talkings about THE ALL, The Source, The Absolute. This is more than the God of the Bible, there is nothing outside of this  "God" nothing. This Divine Being created everything and everyone, there is no division within this concept. The Biblical God is very divisive, you are either with Him or against Him, this had led to many wars and conflicts, this is an outdated and barbaric way to think about things.

So FYI, I am not talking anything divisive, I am saying that God, you and I and the whole of creation are One Thing. This belief if widely accepted and expounded would create peace on Earth. Whether you actually believe in something called God is almost irrelevent, you can believe in the Beauty and Mysteries of Life, or the Nobility of Love..

Just the belief in "Oneness" would change everything.

So like advanced pantheism then? 

[Crazy Horse]

5 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

So like advanced pantheism then? 

I dont know what advanced pantheism is, so its a bit difficult to say!

[psyche101]

52 minutes ago, Illyrius said:

????????? 

Did you not indicate in your QM thread that you considered the quantum mechanics a sound theory? 

Nothing is not empty. That's what QM has indicated. 

[Illyrius]

Just now, psyche101 said:

????????? 

Did you not indicate in your QM thread that you considered the quantum mechanics a sound theory? 

Nothing is not empty. That's what QM has indicated. 

If it's not empty then why it's called "nothing"?

[psyche101]

38 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

I dont know what advanced pantheism is, so its a bit difficult to say!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheism

[psyche101]

Just now, Illyrius said:

If it's not empty then why it's called "nothing"?

Because of the scales involved. There is nothing we can see with our limited vision. You can't see an atom either unless it's bonded with billions of other ones. 

Your familiar with dark matter I hope? 

The invisible force accelerating the expansion of the universe? 

Its  nothing like that, but if that concept helps, use that. 

[Illyrius]

1 minute ago, psyche101 said:

Because of the scales involved. There is nothing we can see with our limited vision. You can't see an atom either unless it's bonded with billions of other ones. 

Your familiar with dark matter I hope? 

The invisible force accelerating the expansion of the universe? 

Its  nothing like that, but if that concept helps, use that. 

The question which can never be answered is how the first thing came into being, because we in our minds know that some-thing can not come out of no-thing. I say universe is unexpleinable to our minds in its fundamenal sense of existence. I prefer what CH is talking about in that sense, sounds most reasonable to me, don't agree with everything but with most of it - yes.

[psyche101]

4 minutes ago, Illyrius said:

The question which can never be answered is how the first thing came into being, because we in our minds know that some-thing can not come out of no-thing. I say universe is unexpleinable to our minds in its fundamenal sense of existence. I prefer what CH is talking about in that sense, sounds most reasonable to me, don't agree with everything but with most of it - yes.

That's exactly why we built the LHC. To answer the big questions about the pre universe. Sure it takes some effort. 

Have you not found everything in life that is good is worth some effort? From finding your place in society, to matching in with a partner to parenthood. You get out of it what you put into it yeah? 

Do you honestly think 'oh this is easier to understand' is really being true to yourself? 

Edited February 19, 2018 by psyche101

[psyche101]

[Crazy Horse]

13 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheism

At a glance then I would have to say that yes, that looks very similar although it does cover a wide ranging doctrines, so I would be slightly cautiously..

Do you have any issues with Pantheism, considering that it a big concept with slightly differing view points? That would help me clarify my own position.

[Illyrius]

9 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

That's exactly why we built the LHC. To answer the big questions about the pre universe. Sure it takes some effort. 

Have you not found everything in life that is good is worth some effort? From finding your place in society, to matching in with a partner to parenthood. You get out of it what you put into it yeah? 

Sure, as i already tried to expain a hundred times, i don't have anything against exploring and science, what i don't understand is the denial of the unknown, and "spirit". Science explores and opens horizons for wonderful things, and it helps humanity in numerous ways, but at the same time it produced a very "materialistic" outlook of the world. It tries to explain everything in ... how to say... mechanistic? terms. Since religion of the old is thrown down by science and education we go through, what is needed in my opinion is for science to admit that it will not find final answers and for old religions that they are outdated in a sense they are not in accordance to a way in which a modern man think. Universe is a mystery, and it will always remain so.. that is why it is natural to believe and imagine... in a rational way of course, not in a way of mad superstitions.

Edited February 19, 2018 by Illyrius

[psyche101]

14 minutes ago, Illyrius said:

Sure, as i already tried expain a hundred times, i don't have anything against exploring and science, what i don't understand is the denial of the unknown, and "spirit". Science explores and opens horizons for wonderful things, and it helps humanity in numerous ways, but at the same time it produced a very "materialistic" outlook of the world. It tries to explain everything in ... how to say... mechanistic? terms. Since religion of the old is thrown down by science and education we go through, what is needed in my opinion is for science to admit that it will not find final answers and for old religions that they are outdated in a sense they are not in accordance to a way in which a modern man think. Universe is a mystery, and it will always remain so.. that is why it is natural to believe and imagine... in a rational way of course, not in a way of mad superstitions.

Its not denial. There's just better answers to everything than superstition. 

Its not some esoteric ancient wisdom. It's historical record. The Greek Gods are a perfect example, as basic science became common knowleldge they were retired. That was 2,000 years ago. Now imagine 2,000 years into our future. Quantum mechanics might well be primary school and high schoolers might be creating mini black holes in labs. Science doesn't deny any if the Spirit claims, it simply has nothing to work with. Nothing repeatable, nothing measurable, and remember we can measure weak forces in nature, gravity, and the only claims tested fail miserably. Did you watch the horrorscope experiment I posted? 

Have a look at this. We are doing the right thing ousting the shysters profiting from this from mediums to churches worth billions while they bless the poor. Man it's not working in our favour, we need to move on. 

 

 

Give them a go  won't take long, and not technical, just some interesting results. 

Edited February 19, 2018 by psyche101

[Illyrius]

2 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Its not denial. There's just better answers to everything than superstition. 

Its not something esoteric ancient wisdom. It's historical record. The Greek Gods are a perfect example, as basic science became common knowleldge they were retired. That was 2,000 years ago. Now imagine 2,000 years into our future. Quantum mechanics might well be primary school and high schoolers might be creating mini black holes in labs. Science doesn't deny any if the Spirit claims, it simply has nothing to work with. Nothing repeatable, nothing measurable, and remember we can measure weak forces in nature, gravity, and the only claims tested fail miserably. Did you watch the horrorscope experiment I posted? 

Have a look at this. We are doing the right thing ousting the shysters profiting from this from mediums to churches worth billions while they bless the poor. Man it's not working in our favour, we need to move on. 

 

 

Give them a go  won't take long, and not technical, just some interesting results. 

Look, i understand that you despise various charlatans making money from gullible people, it really doesn't mean there aren't genuine "psychic" people or interesting phenomena.

[psyche101]

Religion was just our first guess at explaining the world and them universe around us.  Myths created by the first storytellers, not a gateway into the unknown, ancient goat herders using their brain to question beyond the horizon, the very first pioneers. 

It was a good thing. It pushed boundaries, it gave us reason to question, it took and concentrated on both the best and worst of mankind, fostered society and gave us benchmarks that would evolve into science. 

We should be following that lead, breaking boundaries learning more, not retreating into the past in fear of what lies ahead.