Intelligent Design: Evolution 2.0

[psyche101]

4 minutes ago, Illyrius said:

Look, i understand that you despise various charlatans making money from gullible people, it really doesn't mean there aren't genuine "psychic" people or interesting phenomena.

Where are they though? 

[Illyrius]

Just now, psyche101 said:

Where are they though? 

One of things to consider maybe. I'm not saying this is some kind of proof, but only worthy of consideration. The text is long and it's fine if you are not interested.

http://www.collective-evolution.com/2015/08/04/5-classic-experiments-showing-extremely-significant-results-for-human-telepathy/

[GoldenWolf]

5 hours ago, psyche101 said:

It would suck. Survive of the fittest, no compassion, dog eat dog. 

Why do you say dog eat dog?  You're not quoting the bible are you?

Revelation 22:15

Outside the city are the dogs--the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idol worshipers, and all who love to live a lie.

[Crazy Horse]

1 hour ago, Illyrius said:

don't question which can never be answered is how the first thing came into being, because we in our minds know that some-thing can not come out of no-thing. I say universe is unexpleinable to our minds in its fundamenal sense of existence. I prefer what CH is talking about in that sense, sounds most reasonable to me, don't agree with everything but most of it - yes.

And this is a good point that you raised.

Within this simple belief of non-separation, we are set free to think, feel, do and act as we see fit!

Because the idea is so fundamental, that we if can realise this one simple idea, then we simply wouldn't harm one another in any way imaginable. The greater the realisation, the less damage done.

Set within this basic framework, we are free to act and think and speak in anyway we like. Religious or secular. Our creativity would go through the roof, our minds would be set free, and our community spirit - co-creating abilities would grow exponentially.

For whatever reason makes sense to you, if we believed in Life as a non-separate THING, and after all, isn't that the basis of the Big Bang theory? Then whatever made sense to you after this this Belief, would be fine also. One God, 350 million Gods, a personal God, a non personal God. An agnostic conception towards all the finer points and details of life, or even the atheist view of no Higher Power whatsoever. 

You could believe anything you like, after seeing all Life as One.

[GoldenWolf]

8 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

You could believe anything you like, after seeing all Life as One.

No God required:

[Doug1029]

4 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

What came before God? Nothing, God is Infinite, Living, Mind, thats why we call it THE ALL. A bit of a mystery granted, but yet we have life, consciousness and energy that must have originated from somewhere!

You can split hairs over the terms I have used yet the fact remains that something is behind all this energy, animatting our life force, and consciousness too. This is self evident. SOMETHING CANNOT COME FROM NOTHING.

God is a broad term and it has a lot of baggage. A better term would be THE ALL as an Infinite Living Mind. The Absolute  Totality of the Cosmos. THE ALL. Nothing is outside of THE ALL , therefore, the only possible way for creation to manifest is via Mind. THE ALL cannot divide itself, and there is nothing outside of THE ALL, therefore, IT can only create and manifest via mind, thereby still remaining THE ALL.

The how, what, why and when of this ALL will always and forever remain a mystery, much like what science has to say about anything pre Big Bang, but as a starting point for science, for life in general, it works perfectly. Mind before matter, a Conscious Living Cosmos created by MIND.

 

 

So nothing came before god?  Where then, did god come from?

Do you relaize that you are saying exactly the same thing as the believers in the Big Bang?  Before the beginning there was nothing?

I'm not up on it, but evidently there is some sort of energy inherent in the void.  The absence of anything in itself is something...the first cause, if you will.  The void gives rise to primary particles, which in turn combine to create matter.

All your descriptions of infinite mind, etc. lack any evidence of existence.  Is your god nothing more than speculation?

Doug

[jmccr8]

2 hours ago, Illyrius said:

Sure, as i already tried to expain a hundred times, i don't have anything against exploring and science, what i don't understand is the denial of the unknown, and "spirit". Science explores and opens horizons for wonderful things, and it helps humanity in numerous ways, but at the same time it produced a very "materialistic" outlook of the world. It tries to explain everything in ... how to say... mechanistic? terms. Since religion of the old is thrown down by science and education we go through, what is needed in my opinion is for science to admit that it will not find final answers and for old religions that they are outdated in a sense they are not in accordance to a way in which a modern man think. Universe is a mystery, and it will always remain so.. that is why it is natural to believe and imagine... in a rational way of course, not in a way of mad superstitions.

Hi Illyris,

Science does explore the unknown, and the spiritual aspects would still fall into the same category of explaining or measuring god so not part of what science does. For me it wasn't science that conflicted or have me reason to doubt religion as it was living among men was sufficient to do that.

jmccr8

[Will Due]

 

There is only ONE God.

He is eternal. In other words, there was never a time when he did not exist.

But time and space is not eternal nor is space infinite, and somewhere in the eternal past, the universes of time and space where created and set in motion.

Boom.

 

 

[jmccr8]

2 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

There is only ONE God.

He is eternal. In other words, there was never a time when he did not exist.

But time and space is not eternal nor is space infinite, and somewhere in the eternal past, the universes of time and space where created and set in motion.

Boom.

 

 

Hi Will

Can you show that space isn't infinite? Can you show that the universe did not exist in another form and just evolve like we have and still are?

jmccr8

[Illyrius]

Lets first agree on what is space and what is time or space-time, so we know what we are talking about, there are various definitions.

[Crazy Horse]

11 minutes ago, Doug1o29 said:

So nothing came before god?  Where then, did god come from?

Do you relaize that you are saying exactly the same thing as the believers in the Big Bang?  Before the beginning there was nothing?

I'm not up on it, but evidently there is some sort of energy inherent in the void.  The absence of anything in itself is something...the first cause, if you will.  The void gives rise to primary particles, which in turn combine to create matter.

All your descriptions of infinite mind, etc. lack any evidence of existence.  Is your god nothing more than speculation?

Doug

God is a mystery - yes.

And yes, I realise I am saying the same thing as those who believe in the Big Bang, that was the point!

"Some sort of energy in the void", right - give it a name, I choose "God", you may choose something else, only God is Inteligent Living Mind, so this belief opens up so many options. Instead of the materialistic view that life and consciousness are basically accidents.

And there is evidence, your life force for one must have come from this place, you may wish to deny it, I don't.

[Will Due]

11 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Can you show that space isn't infinite?

 

Yes.

 

 

Edited February 19, 2018 by Will Due

[Illyrius]

“Time is an illusion.”
― Albert Einstein

 

[Crazy Horse]

1 hour ago, Mystic Crusader said:

No God required:

And I suppose that all came about by accident?

And even if that isnt some kind of mathematical impossibility, it still doesn't account for life itself. Unless life were present in and after the Big Bang? Life cannot come from non-life, there has to be something that engendered life, I call THAT God, you may wish to call it something else. 

[jmccr8]

5 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

Yes.

 

 

Will

The is an infinite amount of space around that yes care to fill it in some.

jmccr8

[Illyrius]

27 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Illyris,

Science does explore the unknown, and the spiritual aspects would still fall into the same category of explaining or measuring god so not part of what science does. For me it wasn't science that conflicted or have me reason to doubt religion as it was living among men was sufficient to do that.

jmccr8

Science does explore, but it tends to shrink from non-measurable and non-5senses interpretation of things, it shrinks from philosophy, and interprets everything in terms of measurable/visible reality. So i ask scientists in plain words to say for example - What is time?

[Crazy Horse]

20 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

There is only ONE God.

He is eternal. In other words, there was never a time when he did not exist.

But time and space is not eternal nor is space infinite, and somewhere in the eternal past, the universes of time and space where created and set in motion.

Boom.

 

 

Will, lets assume that there is only one God.

That God might have many names, the question is, does that matter?

God may have differentiated ITSELF into millions of smaller unites (gods), again, does that matter?

And God may have appeared to different folk in different cultures in different guises - again, does that matter?

 

 

[Will Due]

Just now, Crazy Horse said:

Will, lets assume that there is only one God.

That God might have many names, the question is, does that matter?

God may have differentiated ITSELF into millions of smaller unites (gods), again, does that matter?

And God may have appeared to different folk in different cultures in different guises - again, does that matter?

 

 

 

No, it doesn't matter how it happened. But that's exactly what happened.

 

 

[Will Due]

 

Let me add.

IMHO, the destiny of the human being is to participate with the further creating still yet to come beyond what's already been created in space and time.

That's if the particular human being would like to do what will qualify him for such a privilege and not ever decide to give up working on this qualification. 

 

 

Edited February 19, 2018 by Will Due

[Crazy Horse]

14 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

Let me add.

IMHO, the destiny of the human being is to participate with the further creating still yet to come beyond what's already been created in space and time.

That's if the particular human being would like to do what will qualify him for such a privilege and not ever decide to give up working on this qualification. 

 

 

I agee totally..

I think we are divine beings, capable of divine living and having divine experiences...

What this may actually look and feel like - I dont belief that that is possible to even imagine right now!

Personally I see humanity heading in the direction of other highly evolved metaphysical beings, (angels), and so creating a New Earth and a New Heaven in the process. Ie, we will over-come death with an ability to materialise and dematerialise at will. After which point death will be conquered. We will then go on to help other beings who are in similar positions as we are now.

 

[jmccr8]

53 minutes ago, Illyrius said:

Science does explore, but it tends to shrink from non-measurable and non-5senses interpretation of things, it shrinks from philosophy, and interprets everything in terms of measurable/visible reality. So i ask scientists in plain words to say for example - What is time?

Hi Illyris

Science is a specific tool that is used for that which is measurable just in the same way that any tool is created for. I can use my mig welder for working with metals but is useless for carpentry.

At some point we may develop tools that will help us understand of explain the other unknowns.

jmccr8

 

Edited February 19, 2018 by jmccr8
Phone is messing with me

[Illyrius]

12 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

I agee totally..

I think we are divine beings, capable of divine living and having divine experiences...

What this may actually look and feel like - I dont belief that that is possible to even imagine right now!

Personally I see humanity heading in the direction of other highly evolved metaphysical beings, (angels), and so creating a New Earth and a New Heaven in the process. Ie, we will over-come death with an ability to materialise and dematerialise at will. After which point death will be conquered. We will then go on to help other beings who are in similar positions as we are now.

 

Angels are beings one "level" above man. So, yes that is the direction, but it is not so simple. Evolution may go astray. According to esoterical teachings Earth also has incarnations, and when you speak about "New Earth" i have that in mind.

[jmccr8]

45 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

No, it doesn't matter how it happened. But that's exactly what happened.

 

 

Will

 If God is an absolute then the descriptions of God would be constant which is not what is seen through all the descriptions of God. What purpose does that serve to represent oneself as illusionary other of gods purpose is to create unity for all men?

jmccr8

[Will Due]

21 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

I agee totally..

I think we are divine beings, capable of divine living and having divine experiences...

What this may actually look and feel like - I dont belief that that is possible to even imagine right now!

Personally I see humanity heading in the direction of other highly evolved metaphysical beings, (angels), and so creating a New Earth and a New Heaven in the process. Ie, we will over-come death with an ability to materialise and dematerialise at will. After which point death will be conquered. We will then go on to help other beings who are in similar positions as we are now.

 

 

CH,

I happen to see it exactly the same as you just posted, and have been thinking about that way for many years.

Cheers

 

 

[Will Due]

3 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Will

 If God is an absolute then the descriptions of God would be constant which is not what is seen through all the descriptions of God. What purpose does that serve to represent oneself as illusionary other of gods purpose is to create unity for all men?

jmccr8

 

I'm not following you.