Intelligent Design: Evolution 2.0

[Illyrius]

5 minutes ago, HerNibs said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Columbus#Quest_for_Asia.

Doug provided facts that Columbus was aware of that aided him in looking for a new trade route to Asia.

Nibs

Ok. This obviously leads nowhere. But to illustrate my point lets take another example. Faraday. Do you know how many unsucessful experiments he performed until he finally made his most important discovery?

Edited February 20, 2018 by Illyrius

[+Sherapy]

18 minutes ago, MauriOra said:

Real Time is what ..?

Evidence means ...... What .?

Mo.xx

Reality, objective ( 5 senses). 

Facts that support your claims. Ask yourself, what  are they, do you even have them? 

I would add trust in yourself too, but have a solid understanding of how you function on a physiological and mental and emotional level too. Get the current facts, what I did was go to college (JC) and took classes so I had quality information to springboard from, I also sought out feedback, good examples, and critical analysis from my peers. 

You bet people lie, even our scientists, doctors, people,  etc, it is on us to do our part too, but you don't want to go to the extreme where you throw your hands up and go on hyper alert defense bitter mode. Getting educated is the best way IMHO. 

 

[+HerNibs]

2 minutes ago, Illyrius said:

Ok. This obviously leads nowhere. But to illustrate my point lets take another example. Faraday. Do you know how many unsucceful experiments he performed until he finaly made his most important discovery?

Nope, how many?

I'm assuming you are discussing his cage and not his discovery of benzene.

Nibs

[+HerNibs]

1 minute ago, Sherapy said:

Reality, objective ( 5 senses). 

Facts that support your claims. Ask yourself, what  are they, do you even have them? 

I would add trust in yourself too, but have a solid understanding of how you function on a physiological and mental and emotional level too. Get the current facts, what I did was go to college (JC) and took classes so I had quality information to springboard from, I also sought out feedback, good examples, and critical analysis from my peers. 

You bet people lie, even our scientists, doctors, people,  etc, it is on us to do our part too, but you don't want to go to the extreme where you throw your hands up and go on hyper alert defense bitter mode. Getting educated is the best way IMHO. 

 

Here is the best part, if someone is lying about "established" facts/evidence, whomever investigates next, using science, will discover the lie.

Nibs

[Illyrius]

Just now, HerNibs said:

Nope, how many?

I'm assuming you are discussing his cage and not his discovery of benzene.

Nibs

Neither do i but i am sure the info is available on wikipedia. He performed many public experiments and no one believed him and he was ridiculed, but he had FAITH he will suceed, and he did.  You get the point now?

[cormac mac airt]

3 minutes ago, HerNibs said:

I don't understand - 

The spirit will decided what tests will be done to verify it exists?

How would I determine what I vibrate at?  What form of measurement?

Nibs

Sounds a lot like circular reasoning doesn’t it.

BTW, howdy Nibs, long time no see. 

cormac

[Will Due]

2 minutes ago, HerNibs said:

I don't understand - 

 

This is a very important statement and needs to be respected.

Spiritual faith is not the same as scientific knowledge.

But both are valid. And they're especially serviceable when they're balanced and harmonized by sound a personal philosophy. 

 

 

[Doug1029]

2 minutes ago, Will Due said:

I'm not asking questions, at the moment.

By "I dove in" I mean I tried the spiritual path.  I found no solid evidence in support of those ideas.  A relaxing of the mind that increases dopamine levels creates a "spiritual" feeling, but is not evidence of anything beyond self.

I finally settled on "Cogito ergo sum."  I think; therefore I am.  That's how I know I exist - if I didn't exist, I couldn't ask the question.  So all knowledge is about questions and answers.

I need a greater certainty in my answers than spirituality provides.  The chance of accepting an incorrect result using spirituality is pretty close to 0.5 - little better than a guess.  At least through reason I can usually get to 95% and sometimes far better.

Some things cannot be answered by science - that could be the legimate realm of spirit.  Science cannot go there because it does not have the tools to go there.  Science cannot render an opinion on things spritual.  What I have a problem with is those who use spirituality to render opinions on things physical.  Lots of spiritualists insist they don't do that and then try it in the next sentence.  I question whether they even know the difference.

Doug

[+Sherapy]

Just now, HerNibs said:

Here is the best part, if someone is lying about "established" facts/evidence, whomever investigates next, using science, will discover the lie.

Nibs

Exactly, great point,  this happened with the dangers of cigarette smoking ( the cigarette companies got their leading scientists to state that there was no danger to smoking at one time). Turned out they were lieing and it came out. 

Herb,  it is great to see you back posting! 

Welcome back!

 

[+HerNibs]

Just now, Illyrius said:

Neither do i but i am sure the info is available on wikipedia. He performed many public experiments and no one believed him and he was ridiculed, but he had FAITH he will suceed, and he did.  You get the point now?

Actually no, he investigated.  He made an observation and then tested WHY something happened.  He was very familiar with the scientific process of study.  

I believe we are not in agreement on the definition of faith.

Nibs

[MauriOra]

5 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Reality, objective ( 5 senses). 

Facts that support your claims. Ask yourself, what  are they, do you even have them? 

I would add trust in yourself too, but have a solid understanding of how you function on a physiological and mental and emotional level too. Get the current facts, what I did was go to college (JC) and took classes so I had quality information to springboard from, I also sought out feedback, good examples, and critical analysis from my peers. 

You bet people lie, even our scientists, doctors, people,  etc, it is on us to do our part too, but you don't want to go to the extreme where you throw your hands up and go on hyper alert defense bitter mode. Getting educated is the best way IMHO. 

 

Thanks Sherri..

Yes I Agree ..

I dont want to be ignorant ..lols..

I do want to learn more .. Yes.. More experience ,knowledge is always a good thing ..

Mo..xx

[+HerNibs]

3 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

Sounds a lot like circular reasoning doesn’t it.

BTW, howdy Nibs, long time no see. 

cormac

  Yeppers, that's why I asked.

 

Long time no see you too hon!

*hugs*

Nibs

[Illyrius]

1 minute ago, HerNibs said:

Actually no, he investigated.  He made an observation and then tested WHY something happened.  He was very familiar with the scientific process of study.  

I believe we are not in agreement on the definition of faith.

Nibs

He suspected something is possible, and he investigated, others didnt have faith he will suceed, he did.

[+HerNibs]

2 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

This is a very important statement and needs to be respected.

Spiritual faith is not the same as scientific knowledge.

But both are valid. And they're especially serviceable when they're balanced and harmonized by sound a personal philosophy. 

 

 

Ok, here is the basic fact. (Bolded) One is based on feelings and faith, the other is based on evidence.

Define sound personal philosophy or unsound.

Nibs

[+Sherapy]

Just now, MauriOra said:

Thanks Sherri..

Yes I Agree ..

I dont want to be ignorant ..lols..

I do want to learn more .. Yes.. More experience ,knowledge is always a good thing ..

Mo..xx

I respect that you are curious and not afraid to ask questions, to challenge things this is a great quality. 

[Doug1029]

8 minutes ago, Illyrius said:

Ok. This obviously leads nowhere. But to illustrate my point lets take another example. Faraday. Do you know how many unsucessful experiments he performed until he finally made his most important discovery?

Or Edison.  It is said that the day before he discovered a good filament for his light bulb, he could name a thousand things that wouldn't work and none that would.  Faraday and Edison did not try to ascertain principles from their work, then let the results lead them to the solution.  They took guesses and tried them.  But that's more engineering than science.  Science pursues ideas.

Doug

[XenoFish]

The definition of faith.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/faith

[Doug1029]

3 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Exactly, great point,  this happened with the dangers of cigarette smoking ( the cigarette companies got their leading scientists to state that there was no danger to smoking at one time). Turned out they were lieing and it came out. 

Herb,  it is great to see you back posting! 

Welcome back!

 

The cigarette companies were knowingly perpetrating a fraud.  That's not science - it's just lying.  Congress should have jailed those tobacco executives for contempt of Congress.

Doug

[MauriOra]

1 minute ago, Sherapy said:

I respect that you are curious and not afraid to ask questions, to challenge things this is a great quality. 

Thankyou..

I respect that you are not afraid to query why we query...hahaha..

You are good value Sherri.. I do respect ya fierceness.. 

Yes I do ...

Mo..xx

[Will Due]

1 minute ago, HerNibs said:

 

Define sound personal philosophy or unsound.

 

 

Personal philosophy is sound when it harmonizes science and faith.

 

 

[Illyrius]

1 minute ago, Doug1o29 said:

Or Edison.  It is said that the day before he discovered a good filament for his light bulb, he could name a thousand things that wouldn't work and none that would.  Faraday and Edison did not try to ascertain principles from their work, then let the results lead them to the solution.  They took guesses and tried them.  But that's more engineering than science.  Science pursues ideas.

Doug

Exactly, they took guesses because they suspected something is possible or probable in another words they didnt exactly know but believed and investigated, is that correct?

[Rlyeh]

It's probably best not to take MauriOra's word salad too seriously.

[+HerNibs]

1 minute ago, Illyrius said:

Exactly, they took guesses because they suspected something is possible or probable in another words they didnt exactly know but believed and investigated, is that correct?

Well, not exactly guesses and what they suspected shouldn't have played any part in it.

1.  They observed something that they did not understand.

2.  They set up processes and tests to determine what was happening.

3.  They set up processes and tests to determine why it was happening.

Good scientific testing never begins with an answer or a set destination.

Nibs

[+HerNibs]

So maybe this will help -

They HOPED they would find an answer.

Nibs

[MauriOra]

22 minutes ago, HerNibs said:

Comprehend the testing?  Yep, pretty sure I can comprehend what type of testing is being done.

Will I agree that it's a reasonable test that will produce evidence?  Can't promise but I'm willing to listen.

Nibs

Aaawww,

Thankyou Nibs..

You are well respected and Missed here.. I dont know ya.. But welcome back ..

Tests ok .. Well its not structured, ya see ..

It depends on the individual really ..

I'm sorry, I'm being vague .. I'm just a bit tired is all ..

I will try to suss something out within next few days, for tests.. Right now ..I can not... Brains getting tired ..

I will come up with a scenario within next 48 hrs..

Mo.. xx