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Intelligent Design: Evolution 2.0


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I don't mean to butt in on you NZers, but I have a question. 

In a documentary I watched recently about the controversy regarding the earliest people who were there before the Maori, they interviewed a woman on camera who had Polynesian features but red hair and bright blue eyes.

She said she was descended from a people that were there for thousands of years even before the Maori reached the islands.

She said her people's traditions told that they came to the islands from Persia a very long time ago.

Do you guys know anything about this?

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

I don't mean to butt in on you NZers, but I have a question. 

In a documentary I watched recently about the controversy regarding the earliest people who were there before the Maori, they interviewed a woman on camera who had Polynesian features but red hair and bright blue eyes.

She said she was descended from a people that were there for thousands of years even before the Maori reached the islands.

She said her people's traditions told that they came to the islands from Persia a very long time ago.

Do you guys know anything about this?

 

 

This is an interesting genetic feature which only occurs in the New Zealand Moari, as far as I am aware. There are lots of theories on it. From people from Persia, to Vickings and Celts. 

It is facinating and beautiful.

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1 hour ago, MauriOra said:

Thankyou Teacher ..

Yes ..

Without you, I would not know ..

I'm not sure how you can know these things and still make silly claims about science being some sort of evil organisation. 

1 hour ago, MauriOra said:

Do you have a bible too ..

Mo..xx

Several, Ive told you this  before too, one is even a gold edged bible with locking clasps from the late 1700s that my father left me. Had bible studies every week as a kid too.

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4 minutes ago, Kismit said:

Thank you Hre2breal, this by far my favorite post of yours. It shows a good strong level of knowledge of the facts.

The last full bloided Moriori did indeed die in 1980, but I believe decendents do still exist.

It seems a reasonable guess to say the native Maori travelled around the Pacific and Polynesia extensively before settling here. Easter Island is one of the places it would be reasonable to guess the Maori travelled to.

When I look at wars I see them as being fought for the same reasons, power and resources. Again if we had the written stories from both sides how would they be viewed today? Would the wounds of war be as raw as the wounds recorded on paper now?

Maori back then believed in Mana being the driving essence to be the strongest tribe to a certain exstant it still is around but not to the same level where we want to kill each other...

I wouldnt mind betting we still have More Moriori in some Maori than actual Maori yes...The person who died in 1980 was believed to be 100% Moriori...thanks for taking the time Kismit...

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1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

:wub:

We actually sign up and agree to terms that as a member of Um our posts will be sensible and when asked clarified. 

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11 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

I don't mean to butt in on you NZers, but I have a question. 

In a documentary I watched recently about the controversy regarding the earliest people who were there before the Maori, they interviewed a woman on camera who had Polynesian features but red hair and bright blue eyes.

She said she was descended from a people that were there for thousands of years even before the Maori reached the islands.

She said her people's traditions told that they came to the islands from Persia a very long time ago.

Do you guys know anything about this?

 

 

Yes cant say I have heard that before but I have seen distinct different features in different areas yes...Interesting thing history though to me its like which came first the chicken or the egg stuff...

Who really was first anywhere in my opinion is something we may never know all we can do to work it out as acurately as possible is put ourselves back in that time an follow the knowledge as it was recorded at that particilar time..

Truly walk in thier shoes...or no shoes what ever it may be...

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11 minutes ago, Hre2breal said:

Yes cant say I have heard that before but I have seen distinct different features in different areas yes...Interesting thing history though to me its like which came first the chicken or the egg stuff...

Who really was first anywhere in my opinion is something we may never know all we can do to work it out as acurately as possible is put ourselves back in that time an follow the knowledge as it was recorded at that particilar time..

Truly walk in thier shoes...or no shoes what ever it may be...

Jandle/thong/Samoan safety boot.

It is facinating to know your history, to research it through genetics, oral history and artfacts and guess at what life was like for our ancestors. For reference it was the egg that came first. Scientists solved that one a few years back. ( this is ofcourse a bit of light banter, and as such is just a fun post)

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Just now, Sherapy said:

All this talk about the Maori makes me miss BTE. 

He would have loved this discussion.

I miss him too. He was a good friend.:cry:

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Just now, XenoFish said:

I miss him too. He was a good friend.:cry:

He was an interesting poster too. 

Note to self, tell J. , to tell him hi from us. 

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1 hour ago, Sherapy said:

He was an interesting poster too. 

Note to self, tell J. , to tell him hi from us. 

I heard you and will let him know that we

area all thinking about him and hi.:D

jmccr8

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Just now, jmccr8 said:

I heard you and will let him know that we

area all thinking about him and hi.:D

jmccr8

I knew you would, let us know how he is.

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2 hours ago, Hre2breal said:

When Maori came here as far as I know Moriori were here..It has since been established that Maori an Moriori were related.. Possibly explaining why Maori came here in the first place..hence Maori were the first people as Moriori were of blood descent...

Wars between Maori vs Maori an Maori vs Moriori drove Moriori to Chatham islands where they stayed until there demise if I remember correctly the last descendant if Moriori died around the 80s or 90s which was a shock because they were thought to be long gone...

The wars between Maori an Moriori were not for ownership of land it was over chiefmanship an women to be exchanged for bloodlines differences in there oppions of this lead to discord an ultimately war..It was all about strength of tribe not land..Theres the difference between European an Maori an its always been that way for European here back then...They wanted to trick us or make up tax laws in order to conviscate land ie..Dog tax laws..

Maori werent perfect bt any means they fought each other but it was about bloodlines not ownership of land...Maori gifted land like it was lollies to fellow Maori whom would help them battle to beat another rival tribe..

This happened to my own family we were gifted land from Waikato for helping them take on Ngapuhi..

Then my grandfather married a Ngapuhi woman to help intwine the harmony ..

Europeans were cruel manipulaters but eventually blood ties too eased that rift an now we co exsist for our mokopuna an now pakeha are trying to right thier wrongs an return stolen land an make amense....Its come along way...

You may find early European history quite similar in that kings gave land to their supporters and married to amalgamate power. The land gives resources and they were held by bloodlines. This type of system is well noted throughout most histories and cultures the world over.

jmccr8

Edited by jmccr8
spelling and context
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3 hours ago, psyche101 said:

I didn't claim to have the answers I realistically listed what information we have. What we do have does not result in the likely hood of such a thing as an afterlife, but the very opposite. See what you quoted from me up there? Read the last line again. 

What's more likely. 

Why do you think scientists have not tested for the Spirit? What do you find in the information I provided to be in error? 

Do you not feel it is just a cop out to say you can't measure it, but it exists? It's just an easy out I reckon. But it's the only way to justify NDE belief I suppose. 

Surely you have heard of the 21 grams claim? Great Thundamentals song with Hilltop Hoods too. That's another test that some even still claim is proof of the soul. They don't state how the test was a monumental failure though when citing it as proof. 

Here, have a read of this, Dr Karl who often speaks on triple is a bit of a modern day Julius Sumner Miller. 

 

http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2004/05/13/1105956.htm

I've not heard of that 21 grams claim.  I don't remember you specifically linking any information to me specifically, but yes you did make many claims.  Such as, you know for a fact that human consciousness evolved or something similar and many other claims.  

No, I don't feel it's a cop out that I believe it exists but it cannot be measured.  I thought I explained myself, but perhaps I was not clear.  My opinion of the soul, or spirit of a person is that it's more than brain chemistry and physiology, and that it is a separate thing from the physical world.  As I said, and repeat, I know of no possible way of scientific testing to prove or disprove this.

But frankly, to be honest; I'm not interested in debating in this thread.....or any other for the time being.  Thanks for the reply though, and best wishes.  

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16 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

You may find early European history quite similar in that kings gave land to their supporters and married to amalgamate power. The land gives resources and they were held by bloodlines. This type of system is well noted throughout most histories and cultures the world over.

jmccr8

That is quite intetesting yes I have followed a bit of the old english history an you are right..I can see where this happened thanks for pointing this out...huh thats made me think

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5 minutes ago, Guyver said:

I've not heard of that 21 grams claim.  I don't remember you specifically linking any information to me specifically, but yes you did make many claims.  Such as, you know for a fact that human consciousness evolved or something similar and many other claims.  

Surprised you haven't heard it there was a thread not too long back on it. 

 

Here you go the attention schema theory 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention_schema_theory

 

5 minutes ago, Guyver said:

No, I don't feel it's a cop out that I believe it exists but it cannot be measured.  I thought I explained myself, but perhaps I was not clear.  My opinion of the soul, or spirit of a person is that it's more than brain chemistry and physiology, and that it is a separate thing from the physical world.  As I said, and repeat, I know of no possible way of scientific testing to prove or disprove this.

What about brain damage. I would think that insists that the mind is the brain. 

5 minutes ago, Guyver said:

But frankly, to be honest; I'm not interested in debating in this thread.....or any other for the time being.  Thanks for the reply though, and best wishes.  

No worries all the best. 

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3 hours ago, Kismit said:

Quite unpleasant I imagine? Europeans brought disease and unrest. 

Was it good or bad for the people who where there before the Maori, the Tasmanians, but of course less likely but not impossible the Native American's and Aboriginals?

In all honesty what is the difference between Europeans conquering new lands and other non-european nations conquering new lands? Isn't the intention the same?

Let's get one thing straight. I'm not into the white guilt-trip thingy. History happened and I wasn't there. Migrations happen. What made European contact apocalyptic for some native populations was their isolation and susceptibility to Eurasian pathogens for which they had no defense. If it were not so, European contact and exploitation of the Americas would have been more like that which they had in India and Australasia, with a huge indigenous population to deal with. As I said; history happened; I don't defend it, I just read about it. 

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19 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Let's get one thing straight. I'm not into the white guilt-trip thingy. History happened and I wasn't there. Migrations happen. What made European contact apocalyptic for some native populations was their isolation and susceptibility to Eurasian pathogens for which they had no defense. If it were not so, European contact and exploitation of the Americas would have been more like that which they had in India and Australasia, with a huge indigenous population to deal with. As I said; history happened; I don't defend it, I just read about it. 

History happened yes I wasnt there either..Im not into blaming people here in this day an age but the europeans back then I certainly do..

I feel migration is a pretty word to use for a not so pretty situation HC.I can just as easy call it a home invasion now that suits better from where I see it..

Yes Kismit was right it was not pleasent because of disese an illnesses unheard of to many..Isolation an susceptability never fairs well for anyone in the case of home invasion...As for having no defence well I beg to differ Maori people were very skilled in medicine hence the reason it didnt wipe us out all together...

Once realised that White people brought death with them Maori were also known to slaughter white people who tried to come ashore..I would call that the ultimate form of defence...

You see this is what makes the 1835 Declaration of independence an the Treaty of Waitangi very unique Maori people were formidable we proved we were willing to fight an die, an kill..This is where isolation an susceptability turned back on them because there are no other landmarks after us an its a long way home...

These are the reasons europeans thought it best to come to a middle ground agreement ie..treaties..Which they miss used an are paying for now why you may ask because they got rich off us an its only right that it is put right..Thats where we have an edge on our fellow aborigine families all around the world...

I only wish there was a way to make these treaties global hey you never know it might just be one day..Watch that space..We were formidable then an we still are if we can help our felllow native brothers an sisters we will...

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17 minutes ago, Hre2breal said:

History happened yes I wasnt there either..Im not into blaming people here in this day an age but the europeans back then I certainly do..

I feel migration is a pretty word to use for a not so pretty situation HC.I can just as easy call it a home invasion now that suits better from where I see it..

Yes Kismit was right it was not pleasent because of disese an illnesses unheard of to many..Isolation an susceptability never fairs well for anyone in the case of home invasion...As for having no defence well I beg to differ Maori people were very skilled in medicine hence the reason it didnt wipe us out all together...

Once realised that White people brought death with them Maori were also known to slaughter white people who tried to come ashore..I would call that the ultimate form of defence...

You see this is what makes the 1835 Declaration of independence an the Treaty of Waitangi very unique Maori people were formidable we proved we were willing to fight an die, an kill..This is where isolation an susceptability turned back on them because there are no other landmarks after us an its a long way home...

These are the reasons europeans thought it best to come to a middle ground agreement ie..treaties..Which they miss used an are paying for now why you may ask because they got rich off us an its only right that it is put right..Thats where we have an edge on our fellow aborigine families all around the world...

I only wish there was a way to make these treaties global hey you never know it might just be one day..Watch that space..We were formidable then an we still are if we can help our felllow native brothers an sisters we will...

Not medicine, no natural defense from previous contact with the new diseases brought to them. They had no overall immunity or resistance and suffered casualties disproportionate when compared to losses suffered by peoples who had developed natural resistance. In the Americas, in the space of a hundred or so years, ninety percent of the population perished. A population numbering perhaps 150 million was reduced to just a few million. This is what enabled Europeans to steamroller the remnants and colonize the Americas. You know your own situation and perhaps there is a parallel to those circumstances. As I said, I'm not into moral revisionist judgmentalism. That regrettable things happened is, of course, without question. 

Edited by Hammerclaw
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3 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Not medicine, no natural defense from previous contact with the new diseases brought to them. They had no overall immunity or resistance and suffered casualties disproportionate when compared losses suffered by peoples who had developed natural resistance. In the Americas, in the space of a hundred or so years, ninety percent of the population perished. A population numbering perhaps 150 million was reduced to just a few million. This is what enabled Europeans to steamroller the remnants and colonize the Americas. You know your own situation and perhaps there is a parallel to those circumstances. As I said, I'm not into moral revisionist judgmentalism. That regrettable things happened is, of course, without question. 

Correct without question..

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59 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Let's get one thing straight. I'm not into the white guilt-trip thingy.

Sounds politically incorrect.

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5 hours ago, Harte said:

So, we agree and the OP's book is wrong.

Ready to close the thread?

Harte

The evidence for some form of Intelligent Design (ID) has never been more clear:

That doesn't mean ID is the ultimate theory. The OP's book written by Perry Marshall merge the data from Darwinism with those of ID to show that both sides are right and wrong. He proposes Evolution 2.0. The future of biology, biochemistry, genetics and information theory.

Edited by Clockwork_Spirit
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