Intelligent Design: Evolution 2.0

[Crazy Horse]

5 hours ago, HerNibs said:

Please elaborate.  Who are "these people" and uncovering what truth?

Nibs

These people are anyone who is willing to enslave humanity vis using debt as currency for example or say by pushing properganda and lies in the media, those in authority who regularly break the law, and those who interfere in the democratic process for a few examples.

And what truth? The true Nature of Reality. Consciousness.

The folks who are willing to sellout humanity for materialistic gain, they are the bottom feeders of humanity. There is little point in trying to sweeten this truth except to say that their real problem is one of a selfish attitude which can be dropped for a more enlightened one in a heartbeat. 

At our core essence we are Perfect, we have forgotten this perfectness due in no small part to materialistic science.

And the actions of these people who sold-out humanity.

[Crazy Horse]

5 hours ago, eight bits said:

 

What would the difference between "close" and "actual" be? Is there perhaps a test of some kind?

I am unsure what your hypothetical is. If there was no way to tell humans and robots apart? What would be the alternative to treating both of them alike?

If there was a way to tell them apart, then presumably we would consider them what they are: robots (and they would consider us what we are, humans). But if they are so much like us, then we could have personal relationships with them, even though we aren't the same, and at least some of us probably would.

I didnt mention how we would treat them, I asked would we consider them human, in the same way as would we consider AI as being conscious?

Put it this was, would a scientist consider a robot to be human?

[Only_]

19 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Its just removing the guise of the formal church to offer religious ideas under the facade of credibility by misrepresenting scientific theory.  

[LINK] Stephen Meyer on Intelligent Design and Peer Review

You're wrong here again.

Edited February 22, 2018 by Clockwork_Spirit

[Crazy Horse]

5 hours ago, Harte said:

Plenty of scientists have their own personal spiritual beliefs and their own faith.

Those things can't be measured, though, so they aren't something science is designed to address.

So science doesn't try to.

Harte

This is funny..

"These things cant be measured, though, so they aren't something science is designed to address."

Yet all the atheists/materialist on these threads are demanding proof and evidence...

 

 

[Crazy Horse]

5 hours ago, HerNibs said:

Well that isn't good.  I haven't read of any god/s that aren't jealous, vengeful and/or willing to purge the planet in a fit of pique.

 

Nibs

Then you need to read more..

I would suggest that a look at what Neale Donald Walsh has to say in his conversations with God.

[Only_]

1 hour ago, cormac mac airt said:

Define intelligently designed, particularly by what or whom and how was said intelligence determined?

cormac

Something that has purpose behind it, like computer code or one combination that will open a lock.

Like DNA sequences?

Edited February 22, 2018 by Clockwork_Spirit

[Crazy Horse]

5 hours ago, HerNibs said:

Nope, just don't see these things.  I know many people "in power", different levels and areas.  Not evil at all.

Money? Nope.  I control my money.

Only things I think are evil are blind faith, willing ignorance and hatred.

Nibs

Faith isnt blind, I mentioned this before but you failed to acknowledge.

[Crazy Horse]

5 hours ago, cormac mac airt said:

So since you claim we are all slaves then not only are you a slave to your own parents but a slave to your own gods. Therefore there is no such thing as free will, at least according to what you’ve just implied. 

cormac

God doesn't enslave, mankind and their institutions are trying..

You might like to blame God for these issues but you might also like to take some responcibility for this mess?

Blaming God achieves nothing!

[Crazy Horse]

5 hours ago, HerNibs said:

HERETIC! 

I agree.  I wouldn't like to live in fear all the time.

Nibs

You know, I can look at the sorry state of some parts of this planet, I can see the terrible pain and suffering that has been inflicted by those who weld power with a selfish greed and lust for money and yet I am still here speaking out about such wickedness.

But I agree with you, I wouldn't like to live in fear all the time..

Fear that "those" folks must be living with 24/7.

Of having their crimes against humanity found out...

I hope all those numbers in their bank accounts were worth all that worry....

Because the truth is being unveiled. 

 

[Guyver]

48 minutes ago, Illyrius said:

As for goldilocks.. what is that?

I found my unicorn tonight.  But since I see that you all are actually talking about Intelligent Design right now, I guess it would be inappropriate for me to talk about it at this point in time.  Sigh.    

 

[Illyrius]

Just now, Crazy Horse said:

You know, I can look at the sorry state of some parts of this planet, I can see the terrible pain and suffering that has been inflicted by those who weld power with a selfish greed and lust for money and yet I am still here speaking out about such wickedness.

But I agree with you, I wouldn't like to live in fear all the time..

Fear that "those" folks must be living with 24/7.

Of having their crimes against humanity found out...

I hope all those numbers in their bank accounts were worth all that worry....

Because the truth is being unveiled. 

 

 

[Illyrius]

10 minutes ago, Guyver said:

I found my unicorn tonight.  But since I see that you all are actually talking about Intelligent Design right now, I guess it would be inappropriate for me to talk about it at this point in time.  Sigh.    

 

Good luck with your unicorn.

[Crazy Horse]

5 hours ago, HerNibs said:

I'm an atheist. I don't/can't hate something that has no evidence of existing.

Nibs

There is no evidence that God doesn't exist either.

Perhaps you could come up with some evidence, not 100% proof, but just a little evidence to suggest that God doesn't exist?

[MauriOra]

14 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

 

Fear that "those" folks must be living with 24/7.

Of having their crimes against humanity found out...

I hope all those numbers in their bank accounts were worth all that worry....

Because the truth is being unveiled. 

 

Yes it is ..

People have had enough of the Madness .. And they are  Silent No Longer ..

I for One am Glad that its coming out into the Open ..

And all the Money in the World can't help those who have held us in Bondage ..

So they should Lap it up while they still can ..

Mo..xx

[Crazy Horse]

5 hours ago, I'mConvinced said:

I will show it to you when you can hand me the air that you breathe. 

You seem to think I'm a materialist because I have a basic understanding of science but you misunderstand. I can conceive of both ways of being, 'mechanical' or 'spiritual' and many more beside. What I won't do however is live my life to the beat of someone elses pre-existing notion of 'truth' that requires 'faith' and 'belief' in place of actual, real world, testable knowledge.

You claimed that consciousness is physical.

Now you try to muddy the waters with this distraction..

You simply cannot demonstrate in any tiny way that consciousness is physical, not one scap of evidence, not a single example. Instead you come up with this nonsense. 

So please, give some real world, testable knowledge concerning the physicality of consciousness..

[Illyrius]

13 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

You claimed that consciousness is physical.

Now you try to muddy the waters with this distraction..

You simply cannot demonstrate in any tiny way that consciousness is physical, not one scap of evidence, not a single example. Instead you come up with this nonsense. 

So please, give some real world, testable knowledge concerning the physicality of consciousness..

[Crazy Horse]

5 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said:

I just quoted from wiki how materialistic science currently explains the brain being reprogrammed.  Where is the evidence from scientists that 'thoughts' are the only cause of neuroplasticity? Every time your heart beats it's a definite movement towards a certain goal.

So it's difficult to define mind but you know that it's responsible for neuroplasticity somehow.  The hypotheses are just stacking up here.  I can't show anything to you using any scope if you can't define what you want to be shown.

Whoopsie, you are the one making the claims about an immaterial mind and the shackles of materialism, not me.  You keep assuming what I thought you were going to provide evidence for; if we can do that then I can just say, 'if you can show some evidence that its not only the brain that is damaged but the aliens' thought transmission equipment also, then show it'.  What specifically is inferior about the alien-physical-transmission-of-thoughts-via-waves possibility and your immaterial mind theory?  I'm not aware of any evidence we could use to differentiate the two ideas. 

I've already shown that what I think of as the mind is apparently damaged.  Our bodies are already equipped with automatic self-healing and injury-compensating functions, I don't know why you would think that the most complicated organ of all would be any different.  Do you think the mind is ordering white blood cells around too?  I guess unknown since mind is so difficult to define.  How do you know that neuroplasticity isn't also automatic and thus not part of the mind like heartbeats?

All I gotta say is that if this is the very best argument and evidence for immaterialism, I wouldn't be bashing materialism just quite yet.

The brain is reprogrammed because that individual has a cetain thought process. 

For example, a person wishing to learn how to speak again after a stroke, would first of all decide that that want to speak again, and that they are going to try and speak again. So there are two movements of mind that show how this whole process starts..

Then that individual must learn how to speak again, like how a baby learns how to speak. This creates a new restructuring in another part of the brain, via a conscious thought and effort. So its mind again that is creating this middle part of the process.

If this were not so, if the brain simply re-programmed itself aotomatically, like breathing, then no one would be suffering from the after affects of a stroke. Folks would just spontaneously get better without any of the above. How many documented cases of a stroke victim with serious brain damage, how many cases get better to the point where that person can speak normally again? Without any mental effort whatsoever?

Mind reprograms and restructures the brain, neuroplasticity evidences this, so how can the mind boss the brain like this?

The non-physical changing the physical..

Time to rewrite science.

[jmccr8]

1 hour ago, Illyrius said:

When observing universe.. do we not perceive order, beauty and harmony even in greatest systems like galaxies? Again I  am not trying to go into why intelligence created everythig, to be loved or hated or whatever. Motive is a thing of other discussion. I am trying to stick to a question of intelligent design.

As for goldilocks.. what is that?

Hi Illyrius

If there is an intelligent design then there is a purpose or motive for a specific outcome which I am assuming that still evolves around why are we here as the end context of your questions.

I have intelligence and I design and build things for a purpose and my motive is to satisfy an end or need. As I have said in the past is that there were conditions that were unique and we evolved because the potential was there. That doesn't mean that there was a motivating other intelligence nor does deny it all we know is that the potential exists. We create the tools to understand and give significant meaning to our environment and that is our starting point, who are we.

The goldilocks zones are the places that have the best potential for life to exist like your solar system we are the only planet where that potential exists for life to happen.

jmccr8

 

Edited February 22, 2018 by jmccr8
spelling and context

[Illyrius]

12 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Illyrius

If there is an intelligent design then there is a purpose or motive for a specific outcome which I am assuming that still evolves around why are we here as the end context of your questions.

I have intelligence and I design and build things for a purpose and my motive is to satisfy an end or need. As I have said in the past is that there were conditions that were unique and we evolved because the potential was there. That doesn't mean that there was a motivating other intelligence nor does deny it all we know is that the potential exists. We create the tools to understand and give significant meaning to our environment and that is our starting point, who are we.

jmccr8

 

Yes. From our human perspective when we design or create something there is always a purpose and a motive to design and create. I would say it is somewhat similar with the Absolute Source (God). But here we have a problem, we lack concepts to describe what would that purpose or motive would be. We use such words as love - good, evil, temptation, evolution. The Christian concept of all loving God and doctrine of sin heaven and hell has it's interpretation of purpose or motive. Taken in this terms such an interpretation is very bizzare to me so i cannot accept it. Human consciousness works in a mode of duality. The ultimate or absolute is One. So i cant really speak about motives of IT in a language of limited concepts and words. The only thing i clinge to is that intelligence and order in universe is not a consequence of chance but of a purpose and design.

Edited February 22, 2018 by Illyrius

[jmccr8]

2 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

These people are anyone who is willing to enslave humanity vis using debt as currency for example or say by pushing properganda and lies in the media, those in authority who regularly break the law, and those who interfere in the democratic process for a few examples.

And what truth? The true Nature of Reality. Consciousness.

The folks who are willing to sellout humanity for materialistic gain, they are the bottom feeders of humanity. There is little point in trying to sweeten this truth except to say that their real problem is one of a selfish attitude which can be dropped for a more enlightened one in a heartbeat. 

At our core essence we are Perfect, we have forgotten this perfectness due in no small part to materialistic science.

And the actions of these people who sold-out humanity.

So basically everyone on the planet because they work for a paycheck, live on the dole and is a consumer. I have a cave you can live in so you don't have to rape the earth of lumber. There are trees nearby but you can only use some of the deadfall for firewood because I want most of it to nurture the earth and the live one's are off limits because I have a tree hugging group that comes out to give them some love. There is an abundance of wildlife there but you can't kill them for food because I don't want you to hurt their feelings and all the fruit and edible vegitation is off limits as well because they are alive and we don't want to be murdering them either. It:s really a nice place and I would let you live there for free if you agree to accept the conditions.

jmccr8

Edited February 22, 2018 by jmccr8
Phone is messing with me

[jmccr8]

6 minutes ago, Illyrius said:

Yes. From our human perspective when we design or create something there is always a purpose and a motive to design and create. I would say it is somewhat similar with the Absolute Source (God). But here we have a problem, we lack concepts to describe what would that purpose or motive would be. We use such words as love - good, evil, temptation, evolution. The Christian concept of all loving God and doctrine of sin heaven and hell has it's interpretation of purpose or motive. Taken in this terms such an interpretation is very bizzare to me so i cannot accept it. Human consciousness works in a mode of duality. The ultimate or absolute is One. So i cant really speak about motives of IT in a language of limited concepts and words. The only thing i clinge to is that intelligence and order in universe is not a consequence of chance but of a purpose and design.

Hi Illyrius

Then you are left with a god construct and are put in the position of why did god makes us and the last 60 pages of discussion. Why do we need to look first for that something other when we have not yet come to understand our own potential?  We know that we exist and are an evolving intelligence would it not be prudent to focus on the observable first?

jmccr8 

[Illyrius]

4 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Illyrius

Then you are left with a god construct and are put in the position of why did god makes us and the last 60 pages of discussion. Why do we need to look first for that something other when we have not yet come to understand our own potential?  We know that we exist and are an evolving intelligence would it not be prudent to focus on the observable first?

jmccr8 

It would be prudent to focus both on the observable and unobservable, with the much more focus on unobservable because that is our real home.

[jmccr8]

1 minute ago, Illyrius said:

It would be prudent to focus both on the observable and unobservable, with the much more focus on unobservable because that is our real home.

Hi Illyrius

Do you know that every tools that exists is built fundamentally on the principles of our own body? The better we understand ourselves the better tools we will have to gain insight into those other aspects. It may be that at some point we will discover those other aspects when we have evolved enough to understand them. I don't deny potential as I have had experience that I cannot explain nor do I have the tools to study and understand them so I focus on the things that I do have the tools to pursue.

There is a lot of hokey snake oil salesmen out there that corrupt reasons people to seek answers and the answers they get so I am inclined to be slow and methodical, use what is known and verifiable. I am not in any rush or under any pressure to get the answer just to get an answer. Hell I have already lived much longer than I expected and nothing has killed yet. and I rang that doorbell several times.

jmccr8

 

[Illyrius]

12 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Illyrius

Do you know that every tools that exists is built fundamentally on the principles of our own body? The better we understand ourselves the better tools we will have to gain insight into those other aspects. It may be that at some point we will discover those other aspects when we have evolved enough to understand them. I don't deny potential as I have had experience that I cannot explain nor do I have the tools to study and understand them so I focus on the things that I do have the tools to pursue.

There is a lot of hokey snake oil salesmen out there that corrupt reasons people to seek answers and the answers they get so I am inclined to be slow and methodical, use what is known and verifiable. I am not in any rush or under any pressure to get the answer just to get an answer. Hell I have already lived much longer than I expected and nothing has killed yet. and I rang that doorbell several times.

jmccr8

 

Yes. We shape the material world to better suit our physical and emotional needs. So what is the basic problem if we focus on that only?

We forget about everything else.

We start to live in an illusion that observable and tangible, eadible consumable is what matters only, and this leads precisely where we are now. We are in a world which neglects soul, art is dead, ideals are dead, consciousness is asleep. We started to look at ourselves as biological machines not as a spiritual beings which have an experience of physical world. This ultimately leads only to dog eat dog world, because if we are only physical machines without a purpose what is the basis of any morality? There is none!

Devoid of mystery and sanctitiy and focused only on material and in the same time viewing ourselves as purposeless pieces of meat is the ultimate degradation of mankind.

Edited February 22, 2018 by Illyrius

[Why not]

16 hours ago, I'mConvinced said:

Why oh why does everything have to have a political undertone? Stop labeling people based on a political spectrum.

Science is all about questioning and some scientists dismissed the EM Drive with others pursued it.  This is kind of how science should work.  A better example would be an overunity device where science outright denies even the slightest possibility of such a thing existing - they can state this with certainty because if such a thing did exist we would need to re-write the fundamental laws that technology exploits every day.

Sorry on about the political reference but, I was just talking to someone the other that is a die hard liberal who was calling me a "science denier" because I question the agend of someone the global warming debate. I really hate when someone calls me or anyone a denier because we question things. I love the sciences. I also see the dogma and shaming that goes on in some of these areas.  Peace.