MMR Vaccine and the link to AUTISIM.

[Hre2breal]

1 minute ago, ChaosRose said:

We can go round and round about this, but it's better to have mild side effects than to get serious and life-threatening illnesses that are entirely preventable. 

My child had multiple organ failure an was on life support I would hardly call that a mild reaction in my view...But like I said I feel so sorry for these babies they are only one day old for heavens sake

[Torchwood]

12 minutes ago, Hre2breal said:

.Here in NZ the MMR vaxx is broken into 3 doses because of its strength an to make it easier on babies 1at 8wks 2 at 5mths 3 at 8 mnths so how can it be an still babies are getting very ill as in my sons case....How can giving this to a one day old baby be right......

As mentioned MMR isnt being given to a 1 day old anywhere (for the simple reason it doesnt work)  

[Torchwood]

Apparently Cherie Blair did eventually reveal whether he'd had the jab in a book, along with the various sexual positions required to conceive him. 

I really wish these people would learn to keep stuff to themselves...nobody wants to know that.

[Crazy Horse]

4 minutes ago, rashore said:

Some information...

Autism has been around as an actual medical something for over 100 years and is something that became more clearly defined as the autism we know today in the 1940's. : http://projectautism.org/history-of-autism

The more recent concerns about notions of vaccines and autism didn't start until the 90's. Vaccinations have been around since the 30's. Often touted at the trouble with the vaccines is thimerosal- the mercury in the vaccine, and how it's people don't want to immunize their kids with today. Only thing is, thimerosal was proven to be safe in many studies for decades. And started being phased out because of the propaganda against it in the 90's. It hasn't been used in anything except multi-dose influenza vaccines for over 15 years- part of this has been due to regulations, and some of it due to voluntary changes in formulations.

And also, the thimerosal that's supposed to trigger autism wasn't ever part of the MMR formula to begin with. Never has been. Chickenpox, polio, and PVC13 vaccines never had it either.

Autism is a growing problem- but it's not one that has recently developed over the last 14 years or even 25 years due to use of thimerosal in vaccines. It is something that was noted to have existed before vaccines were ever used.

Well somethings causeing it, and this idea that its hereditary makes no sense to me. From next to nothing, to a possible one in two children within the next 14 years is truley shocking.

And it would be the easiest thing to compare those kids who do have it, against those who didn't, and see the out-come!

[Crazy Horse]

Just now, Torchwood said:

Apparently Cherie Blair did eventually reveal whether he'd had the jab in a book, along with the various sexual positions required to conceive him. 

I really wish these people would learn to keep stuff to themselves...nobody wants to know that.

Haha - yeah, but these people would sell their own granny for a couple of quid.

[GlitterRose]

1 minute ago, Hre2breal said:

My child had multiple organ failure an was on life support I would hardly call that a mild reaction in my view...But like I said I feel so sorry for these babies they are only one day old for heavens sake

If that's true, and that's a huge if...then what do you think would have happened if your child had diptheria or some other major illness? 

It is very sad for the small number of children who have legitimately adverse reactions to vaccines, but vaccines are our best defense against dangerous illnesses.

Medicine isn't perfect, but it's ridiculous to just throw it all out and do what then...pray?

And even so...parents can still decline vaccines. They do so at their peril (or the peril of their children, really), but they still can. 

 

[Torchwood]

i agree...sorta.

I dont think it can only be hereditary certainly. I suspect there is an element of it , but you have to add in a bunch of other factors to get it. 

[GlitterRose]

2 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

Well somethings causeing it, and this idea that its hereditary makes no sense to me. From next to nothing, to a possible one in two children within the next 14 years is truley shocking.

And it would be the easiest thing to compare those kids who do have it, against those who didn't, and see the out-come!

Well, of course something is causing it. 

That hardly means you know what it is when everyone actually researching it cannot fully solve it yet.

They know there is a heritable component. They don't know what gene is responsible or how it's activated. They know that increased age of the Father increases the chances.

It could very well be that lots of people have had the gene, but there are a combination of factors that are causing it to be activated more now than before. 

That combined with the fact that obviously you don't diagnose a condition that you don't yet know about...and you have the rise. 

[Hre2breal]

1 minute ago, ChaosRose said:

If that's true, and that's a huge if...then what do you think would have happened if your child had diptheria or some other major illness? 

It is very sad for the small number of children who have legitimately adverse reactions to vaccines, but vaccines are our best defense against dangerous illnesses.

Medicine isn't perfect, but it's ridiculous to just throw it all out and do what then...pray?

And even so...parents can still decline vaccines. They do so at their peril (or the peril of their children, really), but they still can. 

 

If its true what hell are you on...Wow Im not anti vaxx but im prettty sure they know just like you that sone babies will die from this they just dont know who..

Your playing russian roulette though thats what id like to point out..It could be any child that could be the unlucky one here for the greater good...Just knowing that you did this to your own child is the most awful feeling to ever experience believe that CR it isnt a make belie e notion its the real deal.

[GlitterRose]

Just now, Hre2breal said:

If its true what hell are you on...Wow Im not anti vaxx but im prettty sure they know just like you that sone babies will die from this they just dont know who..

Your playing russian roulette though thats what id like to point out..It could be any child that could be the unlucky one here for the greater good...Just knowing that you did this to your own child is the most awful feeling to ever experience believe that CR it isnt a make belie e notion its the real deal.

You're playing Russian roulette by not getting a child vaccinated, because chances are far greater that they may contract a dangerous illness than that they will have a severe reaction to the vaccine.

You can easily find this information out. 

[Torchwood]

3 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

 

And it would be the easiest thing to compare those kids who do have it, against those who didn't, and see the out-come!

well thats a bit too simplistic. just comparing two kids (one with and one without)  and trying to list all the differences between them wont help you find the answer. For starters how do you know youve identified all those differences? And there will be many, at every level from their genetics to the colour of the little cotton socks.  And then you have to compare that to thousands of other kids....and thats a lot of variables to consider.  You'd have to map out the entire history of each and every child , often down to a molecular level....

[Hre2breal]

2 minutes ago, ChaosRose said:

You're playing Russian roulette by not getting a child vaccinated, because chances are far greater that they may contract a dangerous illness than that they will have a severe reaction to the vaccine.

You can easily find this information out. 

I know people whom havent had thier children vaxxed an they are fine..their kuds are now young adults an they live a normal life..

[Crazy Horse]

9 minutes ago, ChaosRose said:

If that's true, and that's a huge if...then what do you think would have happened if your child had diptheria or some other major illness? 

It is very sad for the small number of children who have legitimately adverse reactions to vaccines, but vaccines are our best defense against dangerous illnesses.

Medicine isn't perfect, but it's ridiculous to just throw it all out and do what then...pray?

And even so...parents can still decline vaccines. They do so at their peril (or the peril of their children, really), but they still can. 

 

I would say that our best defence against disease is a healthy immune system, body, mind, spirit.

Mothers and fathers, healthy eating, happy home life, (in fact it has been shown that kids growing up in a loving environment are less prone to diseases).

Then we have all the electro-magnetic smog, environment polutions, floride, processed foods with aspartame, MSG, etc. we have plastic residue in almost everything, hormones disrupting our genetics, the list is almost endless.

If I were a conspiracy theorist, I might ask why?

If I were Big Pharma, I wouldn't bother.

 

All this would take time.

[Crazy Horse]

7 minutes ago, Torchwood said:

well thats a bit too simplistic. just comparing two kids (one with and one without)  and trying to list all the differences between them wont help you find the answer. For starters how do you know youve identified all those differences? And there will be many, at every level from their genetics to the colour of the little cotton socks.  And then you have to compare that to thousands of other kids....and thats a lot of variables to consider.  You'd have to map out the entire history of each and every child , often down to a molecular level....

Im not trying to "list all the differences between them", just one, whether they did or they didnt have the MMR vaccine, or actually, any vaccine, and what the rate of autism was in those two different categories?

In fact it wouldn't take much - contact as many families who didn't take any vaccines and ask one simple question.

It would be a start at least.

For example, if the non vaxxed kids didn't have any cases, or very, very few, then that would be considered as noteworthy at least?

[Crazy Horse]

14 minutes ago, ChaosRose said:

You're playing Russian roulette by not getting a child vaccinated, because chances are far greater that they may contract a dangerous illness than that they will have a severe reaction to the vaccine.

You can easily find this information out. 

You play Russian Roulette with the vaccinations.

I had one for Yellow Fever once, I was aked to not go to a hospital, but a kind of out the way industrial estate, before I was injected, this guy says, "this might have some severe reactions, including death."

I dont take any vaccines or inoculations anymore.

[Crazy Horse]

23 minutes ago, ChaosRose said:

Well, of course something is causing it. 

That hardly means you know what it is when everyone actually researching it cannot fully solve it yet.

They know there is a heritable component. They don't know what gene is responsible or how it's activated. They know that increased age of the Father increases the chances.

It could very well be that lots of people have had the gene, but there are a combination of factors that are causing it to be activated more now than before. 

That combined with the fact that obviously you don't diagnose a condition that you don't yet know about...and you have the rise. 

It would be the easiest thing to study two groups of children growing up.

One lot had the vaccine because their families believed in it, the other lot didn't, because their families didn't believe in it, and we observe the out-come. It could be done with tens of thousands of individual tests, and the answers would be quite revealing to say the least.

[rashore]

14 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

Im not trying to "list all the differences between them", just one, whether they did or they didnt have the MMR vaccine, or actually, any vaccine, and what the rate of autism was in those two different categories?

In fact it wouldn't take much - contact as many families who didn't take any vaccines and ask one simple question.

It would be a start at least.

For example, if the non vaxxed kids didn't have any cases, or very, very few, then that would be considered as noteworthy at least?

You mean the kind of study in this article? https://www.autismspeaks.org/science/science-news/no-mmr-autism-link-large-study-vaccinated-vs-unvaccinated-kids

And just a few more studies from all over the place for folks that are interested.

From Japan: No effect of MMR withdrawal on the incidence of autism: a total population study.: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15877763

Finland: Neurologic disorders after measles-mumps-rubella vaccination.: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12415036

Denmark: MMR vaccine is not linked with autism, says Danish study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1124634/

And another one that is not MMR specific: Increasing exposure to antibody-stimulating proteins and polysaccharides in vaccines is not associated with risk of autism.: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23545349

And for some fun perspective reading on the subject, Vaccines and Autism: A Tale of Shifting Hypotheses: https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/48/4/456/284219

 

[Torchwood]

17 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

It would be the easiest thing to study two groups of children growing up.

One lot had the vaccine because their families believed in it, the other lot didn't, because their families didn't believe in it, and we observe the out-come. It could be done with tens of thousands of individual tests, and the answers would be quite revealing to say the least.

Oh, that!  That particular test has been done already. Doesn't help work out that does cause autism though.

https://www.autismspeaks.org/science/science-news/no-mmr-autism-link-large-study-vaccinated-vs-unvaccinated-kids

 

Ha, beaten to it.

Edited February 10, 2018 by Torchwood

[Crazy Horse]

2 minutes ago, rashore said:

You mean the kind of study in this article? https://www.autismspeaks.org/science/science-news/no-mmr-autism-link-large-study-vaccinated-vs-unvaccinated-kids

And just a few more studies from all over the place for folks that are interested.

From Japan: No effect of MMR withdrawal on the incidence of autism: a total population study.: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15877763

Finland: Neurologic disorders after measles-mumps-rubella vaccination.: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12415036

Denmark: MMR vaccine is not linked with autism, says Danish study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1124634/

And another one that is not MMR specific: Increasing exposure to antibody-stimulating proteins and polysaccharides in vaccines is not associated with risk of autism.: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23545349

And for some fun perspective reading on the subject, Vaccines and Autism: A Tale of Shifting Hypotheses: https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/48/4/456/284219

 

How many of those studies were looking at children who had no vaccinations?

[Torchwood]

Just now, Crazy Horse said:

How many of those studies were looking at children who had no vaccinations?

well for starter the very first one included 15000 children that hadnt had been vaccinated.

[rashore]

Just now, Crazy Horse said:

How many of those studies were looking at children who had no vaccinations?

You didn't even bother glancing at them if you have to ask that question. It says right in the abstracts what the information is.

[Crazy Horse]

3 minutes ago, Torchwood said:

Oh, that!  That particular test has been done already. Doesn't help work out that does cause autism though.

https://www.autismspeaks.org/science/science-news/no-mmr-autism-link-large-study-vaccinated-vs-unvaccinated-kids

Oh that!

No, not that, but a study that looking at children who had no vaccines whatsoever.

 

[Torchwood]

Just now, Crazy Horse said:

Oh that!

No, not that, but a study that looking at children who had no vaccines whatsoever.

 

well what on earth use would that be?

[Crazy Horse]

2 minutes ago, Torchwood said:

well for starter the very first one included 15000 children that hadnt had been vaccinated.

With the MMR jab, I assume that they had some other jabs? 

[Crazy Horse]

Just now, Torchwood said:

well what on earth use would that be?

Er, you have a study of one million children, one lot has no vaccines whatsoever, the other lot has the needle.

You observe the difference in autism and other disease too.

The results tell us a lot about the safety, or lack of, concerning the taking, or the not taking, of vaccines.