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glorybebe

Alberta-B.C. pipeline fight

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glorybebe

After B.C moved to put new roadblocks in the way of the Kinder Morgan Trans Mountain pipeline, Alberta hit back by shutting down electricity negotiations, and banning the import of B.C. wine — trade that comes to $70 million every year.

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-current-for-thursday-february-8-2017-1.4524990/is-canada-one-country-or-13-trudeau-must-end-the-alberta-b-c-pipeline-fight-says-business-leader-1.4524995

This whole thing is getting crazy. Why can't BC take another look at this pipeline and question if we really want it running through our province.  Yes, it means jobs, but, we have to look at the environment for our descendants.

 

Over three billion barrels of Alberta bitumen has become carbon pollution absorbed by the oceans

https://www.nationalobserver.com/2018/02/07/analysis/over-three-billion-barrels-alberta-bitumen-has-become-carbon-pollution-absorbed

If this ^ is true, then it is a bigger issue than BC and Alberta 'duking it out '

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khol

It will go through regardless of any opposition unfortunately. For many countries fossil fuels are still one of the main economic drivers and Canada is no exception.From what I understand this falls under a fedral jurisdiction and Trudeau has already approved it. BC can impart conditions but any attempt to stop it will ultimately fail.:hmm:

We're making some efforts to move away from oil but I think the transition will take decades

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Bavarian Raven
1 hour ago, khol said:

It will go through regardless of any opposition unfortunately. For many countries fossil fuels are still one of the main economic drivers and Canada is no exception.From what I understand this falls under a fedral jurisdiction and Trudeau has already approved it. BC can impart conditions but any attempt to stop it will ultimately fail.:hmm:

We're making some efforts to move away from oil but I think the transition will take decades

Don't be so sure. We still have aces up our sleeves. ;) the fight is far from over. Besides, we will let it through if they can show us it can be cleaned up lol

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aztek

you think they can show you something you do not  already know? eventually every pipe line springs a leak.  spills are hard to clean, and they almost always leave some residue, may even get into ground waters. sometimes valves close fast and leak is small, sometimes not, and spills are large. no one can guarantee there will be no leak,  or that leaks will be small, and easy to clean with little to no effect on environment, if someone promises you that, they are lying thru their teeth

Edited by aztek
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Bavarian Raven
15 minutes ago, aztek said:

you think they can show you something you do not  already know? eventually every pipe line springs a leak.  spills are hard to clean, and they almost always leave some residue, may even get into ground waters. sometimes valves close fast and leak is small, sometimes not, and spills are large. no one can guarantee there will be no leak,  or that leaks will be small, and easy to clean with little to no effect on environment, if someone promises you that, they are lying thru their teeth

Except bitumen is impossible to cleanup from water. It sinks. It poisons the water. It ruins the env. One major leak or spill in the ocean and the economic losses will dwarf any (the little if any) profots BC will receive. 

If they are so confident in their ability to keep this from happening (as they claim), then they should sign a contract (the company and Albertan gov) that they will pay for ALL costs associated with cleanup. 

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Podo

I really don't see how it will ever go through, because it makes zero sense for BC to allow it. We take 100% of the risk and reap 0% of the reward. It's an insane idea for BC to go through with it, completely ludicrous. I don't want my beautiful coast polluted by a bunch of Albertans who don't give a damn about the consequence.

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Likely Guy
2 hours ago, Podo said:

I really don't see how it will ever go through, because it makes zero sense for BC to allow it. We take 100% of the risk and reap 0% of the reward. It's an insane idea for BC to go through with it, completely ludicrous. I don't want my beautiful coast polluted by a bunch of Albertans who don't give a damn about the consequence.

The other option was Northern Gateway, any thoughts on that?

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Daughter of the Nine Moons
5 hours ago, khol said:

It will go through regardless of any opposition unfortunately.

I think you're right about that unfortunately.

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Likely Guy

By the way Glorybebe, thanks for opening this discussion. :tu:

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Likely Guy
1 minute ago, Daughter of the Nine Moons said:

I think you're right about that unfortunately.

I thought that Ontarians were supposed to freeze in the dark during this debate?

Sorry DoT, I'm getting all fiery. :devil:

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Likely Guy

No oil from you, no wine from you...

Seems uncanadianish.

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Daughter of the Nine Moons

I have wine :ph34r:

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Likely Guy
2 minutes ago, Daughter of the Nine Moons said:

I have wine :ph34r:

I want to say something mean and argumentative...

Damn women changing lyrics!

I'm much better now. :D

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Likely Guy

I wish Jack Layton was the PM, or better yet, still alive.

Edited by Likely Guy

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Daughter of the Nine Moons

I have never been a Jack Layton nor Olivia Chow fan. Both came across as very hypocritical to me.

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khol

Fighting Ottawa BC has no options legally

http://nationalpost.com/news/politics/can-b-c-really-stop-the-trans-mountain-pipeline-and-how-can-the-federal-government-make-sure-it-is-built

I guess the best tactic (or only hope ) as being suggested in article is for BC to try and stall the process to the point KM pulls out all together. It would take huge endurance on Horgans part for that to happen. Anything is possible I suppose. Fighting the feds is never an easy thing

 

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Likely Guy
16 minutes ago, khol said:

Fighting Ottawa BC has no options legally

http://nationalpost.com/news/politics/can-b-c-really-stop-the-trans-mountain-pipeline-and-how-can-the-federal-government-make-sure-it-is-built

I guess the best tactic (or only hope ) as being suggested in article is for BC to try and stall the process to the point KM pulls out all together. It would take huge endurance on Horgans part for that to happen. Anything is possible I suppose. Fighting the feds is never an easy thing

 

I can't see the expansion not going through.

Which I'm neither for or against.

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Likely Guy
2 hours ago, Daughter of the Nine Moons said:

I have never been a Jack Layton nor Olivia Chow fan. Both came across as very hypocritical to me.

How so?

In earnest, I'm just glad to ask you this because there are very few people who know what we're talking about.

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Daughter of the Nine Moons

Two things come to mind. His naked "non-arrest" during a raid at a Chinatown massage parlour being serviced by underage girls and when it came out they were living in a 3 bedroom government subsidised co-op. They had a combined income of $120K+ at the time. I never got their whole working class hero status, to me they seemed exploitive.

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Farmer77
13 hours ago, Bavarian Raven said:

If they are so confident in their ability to keep this from happening (as they claim), then they should sign a contract (the company and Albertan gov) that they will pay for ALL costs associated with cleanup. 

and have to pay for the economic downturn that will result. 

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glorybebe
17 hours ago, Bavarian Raven said:

Except bitumen is impossible to cleanup from water. It sinks. It poisons the water. It ruins the env. One major leak or spill in the ocean and the economic losses will dwarf any (the little if any) profots BC will receive. 

If they are so confident in their ability to keep this from happening (as they claim), then they should sign a contract (the company and Albertan gov) that they will pay for ALL costs associated with cleanup. 

Exactly!  That would then push them to make damn sure it was built and maintained properly.

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Podo
On 2/9/2018 at 6:14 PM, Likely Guy said:

The other option was Northern Gateway, any thoughts on that?

Not happy with that, either. Pipelines are a bad idea all-round. 

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switchopens

I live in Fort St. John.
I became an engineer to cash in on the boom which would be the Northern Gateway project.  Being said, you would think I would have been upset by its cancellation, but instead I was relieved.  I found myself on the other side of this idea.
Opposition to such projects has been a real trial for me since the average opinion here is based off of how much a local has made under one government as opposed to another.  Most locals don't consider themselves as residents of BC and most of their political leanings are with Alberta.  I found more people were enraged when Alberta brought in the NPD than when the liberals were overthrown here.
It is not uncommon to run into someone who still believes that climate change is a myth and will do so as long as they still make +$100k a year, and this is the real problem.

There is an economic stability brought by these companies that is hard to shake.  Small communities like here or Fort McMurray will follow the laws of supply and demand by resonating with those paycheques where a loss in jobs would be catastrophic and, such as in Fort Mac, it takes a while for the local economy to catch up after a severe shake-up. These people will not look at the outward problems of their end product, but they will fight tooth and nail to maintain the luxuries that they once relied.  It was interesting to see the reaction in Kitimat to the proposal of the line which took this quiet little coastal and speculatively inflated the economy pending the project.  Not long ago, I heard the prices are reluctant to drop leaving people in the low income bracket struggling to continue there.  This wasn't even the companies fault, rather the parasitic nature of the businesses  looking to cash in.
 

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Daughter of the Nine Moons
Quote

 

Ottawa could offer incentives to get B.C. to relent on Trans Mountain

B.C. officials reject idea that incentives would cause them to back down

Source:http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/bc-alberta-pipeline-trans-mountain-expansion-1.4529422

 

 

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aztek
Just now, glorybebe said:

Exactly!  That would then push them to make damn sure it was built and maintained properly.

and they will give you all sorts of promises, but the undisputed fact is, pipe lines do leak, even with perfect design, and maintenance.  human error and stupidity has been a factor in some leaks,  as well as malicious intent. like shooting a line with a rifle, happened in Alaska more than once.  

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