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Macron's plans to reform Islam in France

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odas
On 2/16/2018 at 7:09 AM, Sir Smoke aLot said:

More than half of France's population are immigrants from time of colonial 'games'. Syrian or any other refugees which came in France today are mere rain drop in the ocean of mixed population.

That is what many ignore. The vast majority of muslims in France and GB are coming from ex colonies. Decsendants from those who used to fight for the colonisator against their own people. After independance they fled to the occupators countries. They were good when the ocupator needed them, now they are a liability. 

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and then
On 2/16/2018 at 6:09 AM, Sir Smoke aLot said:

More than half of France's population are immigrants from time of colonial 'games'. Syrian or any other refugees which came in France today are mere rain drop in the ocean of mixed population.

The changes don't seem to be intended to single out any group of specific immigrants, rather, it is the overall structure of Islamic life within the French Society that he wants to create some accountability and uniformity for.  His broad statements about doing it don't seem too egregious or offensive at this point.  As someone else here said though, the devil is in the details.  It seems to me that if he creates some general guidelines for some moderation in messaging - especially regarding violent messaging - then the majority of French Muslims surely would agree.  France is, at its heart a secular country.

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On 2/19/2018 at 6:03 PM, Black Red Devil said:

This belief that left/progressives accept hate speech by Islamic clerics is real fake news you find on Fox News and Breitbart.  Accepting multicultarism and immigration doesn't mean accepting everything a new culture brings.  There are Laws and everyone abides by them, no matter what your religion says.  Macron is enforcing Law equally, it's up to the Imam's to change their methods or else suffer the consequences.  His main contender, Marine Le Pen (far Right wing), in their recent elections gained a lot of seats in Parliament thanks to her anti-immigration, anri-Islamic, anti-EU rhetoric, also due to the number of terrorist attacks in France in recent times.  About 8% of France's population is Muslim, mainly from its former colonies (Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia the main ones). Further attacks would be political suicide if he showed he did nothing to put a stop to Radicalism.

Where the left/progressives have gone wrong in the past are in places like Sweden and Germany under Merkel by allowing unregulated and unvetted immigration.  Also, the EU has to review the Schengen Treaty which makes it too difficult for Authorities to know where refugees are once they get into the EU.

Globally, it has been my contention that the political Left have been the parties that have pushed for such immigration, if France is an outlier, I'll take your word for it.  I think Macron is reacting to the politics of the day by taking this stance but it still surprises me a bit.  My frame of reference is the Left in the U.S. and the immigrants flooding over the borders in our south.  They are politically untouchable because they represent the future votes that will create a "one party" system in the U.S. - or so it's thought.  

Whatever his reasoning, I support his attempt to manage the growing problem.  If it is left to Le Pen and her party, the demand for change might create civil unrest because they won't have the patience to attempt what Macron seems to be trying... finding consensus.

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1 hour ago, odas said:

now they are a liability. 

Times change and so do loyalties... no news there.  This isn't specifically about groups of immigrants, it's about creating some uniformity for the expression of Islam in a secular state.  Those religions that seem to want to rival the state for power have to moderate or be shown the door.  Common sense.

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Black Red Devil
5 hours ago, and then said:

 

Whatever his reasoning, I support his attempt to manage the growing problem.  If it is left to Le Pen and her party, the demand for change might create civil unrest because they won't have the patience to attempt what Macron seems to be trying... finding consensus.

Macron will want to make sure there are no more terrorists attacks. His demise in favour of the far right will come pretty quickly if so. As it stands many of the central/eastern europeans are moving that way. If the bigger nations move right as well.........

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1 hour ago, Black Red Devil said:

If the bigger nations move right as well.........

There is definitely a danger if an overreaction occurs.  We've seen what happens in Europe when such extremes take hold.  I think that the force of radical, fundamentalist Islam has to be countered and held in check but waiting until the only groups out there to do it are extreme Right nutjobs will be a mistake.  MUCH better to have a Left-leaning politician/government do the work that needs doing.  I just hope he can be successful.

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Sir Smoke aLot
18 hours ago, acute said:

Birmingham?!?

Abu Hamza was the Imam at Finsbury Park Mosque in London.  I doubt he's ever been here!

Thanks for correction, i was sure it was Birmingham. All in all it's such a shame really for both local politicians and for Muslim society there. But maybe it's good thing, such mistakes won't repeat i hope.

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Sir Smoke aLot
15 hours ago, and then said:

The changes don't seem to be intended to single out any group of specific immigrants, rather, it is the overall structure of Islamic life within the French Society that he wants to create some accountability and uniformity for.  His broad statements about doing it don't seem too egregious or offensive at this point.  As someone else here said though, the devil is in the details.  It seems to me that if he creates some general guidelines for some moderation in messaging - especially regarding violent messaging - then the majority of French Muslims surely would agree.  France is, at its heart a secular country.

Yeah, not much we can say right now. I just hope that there will be good and honest dialog with knowledgeable people involved. There won't be problems with the fact that France is secular country i believe. 

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Black Red Devil
10 hours ago, and then said:

There is definitely a danger if an overreaction occurs.  We've seen what happens in Europe when such extremes take hold.  I think that the force of radical, fundamentalist Islam has to be countered and held in check but waiting until the only groups out there to do it are extreme Right nutjobs will be a mistake.  MUCH better to have a Left-leaning politician/government do the work that needs doing.  I just hope he can be successful.

All extremes are bad, political and religious, left or right, so yeah anything central/one way or the other allows some level headed rationality IMO.

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