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Crazy Horse

We are Perfect Beings?

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Crazy Horse

Are we Perfect Beings or not?

I mean this in an ultimate sense more than a relative sense.

Is our Essential Beingness more Godlike, or are we as a species more the spawn of the Devil?

And what would this mean for humanity if this idea were widely accepted and therefor became the foundation of all our thoughts, conversations, and actions too!

Basically, what would it do to the human psyche if we regarded ourselves a "perfect beings" instead of "original sinners"?

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and then

Beginning with the premise that I believe the Bible, I think that we are created beings with a spark of the Divine that makes us higher than the animals and even the angels.  We were made for a relationship with our Creator but were given a free choice whether to connect with him or not.  I think religion is mostly man's ideas about God and as such is a reflection of man's desires, not God's intentions.  Jesus' words and teaching were pretty clear and simple and those who deny Him based on the hundreds of laws and traditions of the ancient Hebrews are, IMO, either confused or willfully rejecting His presence in their lives.  That is their choice and they're free to make it.  

To the OP... the idea that we "can be like God, knowing good from evil" has a familiar ring to it: Genesis 3:5  

"For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." 

How we perceive ourselves does, in fact, determine much of how we behave in our lives but thinking ourselves to be capable of perfection will never completely overcome our inherent nature.  I believe that only a relationship with God can ever lead to that state and even then it is a struggle.

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Will Due

 

Mentioning that Jesus put it as simply as possible, here's what he said takes precedence over everything else we should be:

 

Matthew 5:48   

Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

 

Is there really any other thing we should become like?

 

 

Edited by Will Due
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Will Due
2 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

Are we Perfect Beings or not?

 

If being a perfect being is doing God's will, then it's pretty simple.

Try being perfect for one second.

Then try being perfect for 10 seconds.

Try being perfect for a minute.

Then try being perfect for an hour.

Try being perfect for a whole day.

Then a year.

And finally, be you perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect, for the rest of your life.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Will Due
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Crazy Horse
2 hours ago, and then said:

Beginning with the premise that I believe the Bible, I think that we are created beings with a spark of the Divine that makes us higher than the animals and even the angels.  We were made for a relationship with our Creator but were given a free choice whether to connect with him or not.  I think religion is mostly man's ideas about God and as such is a reflection of man's desires, not God's intentions.  Jesus' words and teaching were pretty clear and simple and those who deny Him based on the hundreds of laws and traditions of the ancient Hebrews are, IMO, either confused or willfully rejecting His presence in their lives.  That is their choice and they're free to make it.  

To the OP... the idea that we "can be like God, knowing good from evil" has a familiar ring to it: Genesis 3:5  

"For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." 

How we perceive ourselves does, in fact, determine much of how we behave in our lives but thinking ourselves to be capable of perfection will never completely overcome our inherent nature.  I believe that only a relationship with God can ever lead to that state and even then it is a struggle.

Hi and then

Thanks for the considered, intelligent reply, just one thing really, you say that you think that we are sparks of the Divine..

This spark if Divine must be perfect, in essence that makes us perfect too, so our inherent nature is Godlike. 

To reccognise this perfection and then to try and demonstrate, and actually exemplify our divine beingness, is one way to eradicate all the ills in our hearts and in the world too.

 

 

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Crazy Horse
1 hour ago, Will Due said:

 

Mentioning that Jesus put it as simply as possible, here's what he said takes precedence over everything else we should be:

 

Matthew 5:48   

Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Is there really any other thing we should become like?

 

Hi Will

I like that quote, short and sweet..

To believe that we are perfect is the first step, or a bit like a huge tanker turning, the more you believe it, the more you become it. 

And after all, what is the alturnative? To see ourselves as mere lumbering robots, or accidental meat-sacks... 

No wonder the world is in such a mess..

 

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Crazy Horse
1 hour ago, Will Due said:

 

If being a perfect being is doing God's will, then it's pretty simple.

Try being perfect for one second.

Then try being perfect for 10 seconds.

Try being perfect for a minute.

Then try being perfect for an hour.

Try being perfect for a whole day.

Then a year.

And finally, be you perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect, for the rest of your life.

 

Personally Will I see it like this..

Every time we demonstrate uncondictional love, that is expressing our divinity. This isnt even necessarily a religious practice, but I would call it spiritual, but anyhow, just saying, just thinking that you are perfect helps.

A desire recognised and an intention set, an action taken and a state of being achieved.

It isnt so much that we have to become perfect, we are perfect already, more that we have to remember our divinity, and then act upon that..

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Will Due
11 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

Personally Will I see it like this..

Every time we demonstrate uncondictional love, that is expressing our divinity. This isnt even necessarily a religious practice, but I would call it spiritual, but anyhow, just saying, just thinking that you are perfect helps.

A desire recognised and an intention set, an action taken and a state of being achieved.

It isnt so much that we have to become perfect, we are perfect already, more that we have to remember our divinity, and then act upon that..

 

I understand what you mean when you say we're already perfect. 

But there's more to do, to become perfect as the heavenly Father is perfect. 

It may be an eternity in time to do it, but anyone can.

 

 

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Crazy Horse
9 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

I understand what you mean when you say we're already perfect. 

But there's more to do, to become perfect as the heavenly Father is perfect. 

It may be an eternity in time to do it, but anyone can.

 

 

I dont understand what you mean by doing more, can you give an example or something?

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Will Due
8 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

I dont understand what you mean by doing more, can you give an example or something?

 

Well what I meant is that we've been created perfectly in our imperfection.

In other words, in order to attain the perfection God has created us to attain, we have a ton of work to do.

But everything we need to do it has been provided. Except our free will choice to take on the challenge.

 

 

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Essan

Humans are perfect - because they were perfectly created to be perfectly imperfect :D

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Will Due
3 minutes ago, Essan said:

Humans are perfect - because they were perfectly created to be perfectly imperfect :D

 

Do you think you can perfect yourself?

 

 

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Crazy Horse
15 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

Well what I meant is that we've been created perfectly in our imperfection.

In other words, in order to attain the perfection God has created us to attain, we have a ton of work to do.

But everything we need to do it has been provided. Except our free will choice to take on the challenge.

 

I dont see us as being imperfect in any ultimate sense, perhaps we dont demonstrate this perfect state of beingness all the time, so the question is really why not? What is stopping us from expressing this divine nature 24/7?

So actually, to be slightly pedantic, there is nothing to attain. Attainment is the wrong word.

Reading your post again, its not so much that we have been born "perfectly imperfect". It has more to do with our sociology, which stems from the Western Theology, which ultimately arises from a cosmology that tells us that we are separate from God! In other words, we are perfect, but our systems and beliefs and institues are not.. Thats the problem right there, not humanity but humanities beliefs. 

Will, do you think yourself separate from God?

 

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Will Due
59 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

 

Will, do you think yourself separate from God?

 

 

No. Absolutely not. 

I see the world's traditions and cultural tendencies to believe we are born in sin or as children of the devil being the great divide between man and God.

How can anyone think their not separate from God when they take these cultural lies to heart that God doesn't even exist?

The lie is coming to an end and that's what's causing all the squirming going on with those who refuse to separate themselves from the lies.

 

 

Edited by Will Due
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Crazy Horse
29 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

No. Absolutely not. 

I see the world's traditions and cultural tendencies to believe we are born in sin or children of the devil as being the great divide between man and God.

How can anyone think their not separate from God when they take these cultural lies to heart that God doesn't even exist?

The lie is coming to an end and that's what's causing all the squirming going on with those who refuse to separate themselves from the lies.

It is true that not evrybody believes in a God and that is perfectly ok in the sense of free will, but there is a way around this issue anyhow!

So if someone doesnt believe in God or any kind of spiritual message whatsoever, then we could ask them whether they believe in life, and or love?? Because it boils down to the same thing. God - Life - Love. 

And I agree that this Grand Misunderstanding is coming to an end. Everybody can see how these beliefs are not working except for the very wealthiest on the planet, and who knows how well they sleep at night and what kinda dreams they experience?

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Will Due
1 minute ago, Crazy Horse said:

So if someone doesnt believe in God or any kind of spiritual message whatsoever, then we could ask them whether they believe in life, and or love?? Because it boils down to the same thing. God - Life - Love. 

 

I would only say that yes, God is love.

But love is not God.

 

 

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Crazy Horse
24 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

I would only say that yes, God is love.

But love is not God.

I don't understand the difference mate; God is love, but love is not God!

Please explain a little.

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Will Due
46 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

I don't understand the difference mate; God is love, but love is not God!

Please explain a little.

 

God is more than love. 

For example, I am love when it comes to my son.

But when my son f's up, he finds out real quick that I can be much more than love when he realizes, that because of the situation, love is not all that I AM. 

 

 

 

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Essan
2 hours ago, Will Due said:

 

Do you think you can perfect yourself?

 

 

Depends on how you define perfection ;)  

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Will Due
1 minute ago, Essan said:

Depends on how you define perfection ;)  

 

Spoiler

Do you want me to look it up in the book?

 

 

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Essan

Yours (and the book's) definition may not be the same as mine.   Thus we cannot agree on whether I am really perfect or not :P 

(as an aside, my balding head, paunch and general lack of resemblance to a young Brad Pitt means many people do not consider me perfect.  But that's just based on their idea  of perfection .... :D )

Edited by Essan
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Podo
8 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

Are we Perfect Beings or not?

I mean this in an ultimate sense more than a relative sense.

Is our Essential Beingness more Godlike, or are we as a species more the spawn of the Devil?

And what would this mean for humanity if this idea were widely accepted and therefor became the foundation of all our thoughts, conversations, and actions too!

Basically, what would it do to the human psyche if we regarded ourselves a "perfect beings" instead of "original sinners"?

It is important to note that not everyone believes themselves to be "bad," since that is something that is particularly unique to middle-eastern mythologies such as islam, christianity, judaism, and baha'i.

That being said, if the abrahamics all started thinking of themselves positively, rather than as inherently evil/sinners, I would suspect that a lot of the trademark abrahamic intolerance would fade away. It's easy to tear others down when you don't think much of yourself, while if you feel good you're less willing to be unpleasant to others. Self-image is very important to the human psyche.

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Crazy Horse
11 hours ago, Will Due said:

 

God is more than love. 

For example, I am love when it comes to my son.

But when my son f's up, he finds out real quick that I can be much more than love when he realizes, that because of the situation, love is not all that I AM. 

Well God is THE ALL, THE ABSOLUTE, God is SPIRIT.

But what if that EVERYTHING was driven by Love?

What if THAT whole energetic process was underpinned with Uncondictional God Love?

What if God had no other thought or reaction other than Pure Love?

What if the whole Cosmos were concieved and created with Loving Intent?

So even if God is THE ENERGETIC FORCE of Creation, that force is total and complete, Uncondictional Love.

So I can believe that God is Love, but also that Love is divine, and that everytime I express unconditional love, I am expressing my inner divinity.

Btw way, I am assuming you react to your sons er, wayward behaviour, because you love him?

 

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Crazy Horse
10 hours ago, Podo said:

It is important to note that not everyone believes themselves to be "bad," since that is something that is particularly unique to middle-eastern mythologies such as islam, christianity, judaism, and baha'i.

That being said, if the abrahamics all started thinking of themselves positively, rather than as inherently evil/sinners, I would suspect that a lot of the trademark abrahamic intolerance would fade away. It's easy to tear others down when you don't think much of yourself, while if you feel good you're less willing to be unpleasant to others. Self-image is very important to the human psyche.

Good morning Mr P

And yes, I agree wholeheartedly. To set it in a religious context, although self worth doesnt have to be about religion per se, but you mention the Abrahamic Religions - this idea of a seperate God, along side this notion of original sin, has been immensely detrimental to our innate sense of well being. 

The whole religious theologies are one of separateness, so that over the millennia, that theology has led us to a sociology of divisiveness, which has been the major cause of all of societies problems and issues.

If the Churches Cosmology were Oneness, that you and I and God and the whole of creation were actually One, then we would look after one another without a second thought. Those starving millions wouldn't be allowed to happen, war wouldn't exsist, crime, corruption - the world wouldn't know these things.

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Crazy Horse
12 hours ago, Essan said:

Depends on how you define perfection ;)  

In a nut-shell Mr Essan

"The recognition, the realisation, and the manifestation of who we truly are, which is, Divine Beings."

The question becomes, how can we exemplify these things?

Or to put it another way, we are perfect already, how do we remember and express this state of Beingness 24/7?

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