Parkland School Shooting Discussion Thread

[Black Red Devil]

3 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

Two words, power and control.  The natural right to bear arms threatens the power and control governments have over the people.  And it should.  It reins in the excesses of government.  The Age of Enlightenment showed that government does not need to hold such a position over the people.  Government is a servant of the people, not the mother and father or nanny of society.  The Age of Slavery is over.  Divine Right is over, Natural Rights is the next stage in Man’s evolution

 

Those kids in Parkland that are screaming “no more guns” need to talk to the Cuban community down in Miami and learn from them about what it means to lose one’s freedoms.  And then challenge them to ‘suck it up’ and find a solution that doesn’t sell their freedom for security.  It is a delicate balance.  Playing the victim does not help.  Life is a No “Safe Space” Zone.  Government wants us to entrust our freedom into their hands but that is the same as enslavement.  It’s just not worth it.  The Progressives here are going to try to divide us and turn the voice of the youth against the Constitution.  They will stop at nothing to destroy it.

 

Are you seriously convinced some semi-automatics, double-barrow shotguns and pistols are going to give you the power and control you need to overturn a Govt?   Sorry, didn't want to laugh considering the tragic events that occurred, but really?!  We're not living in the middle ages anymore you know and even then, the power was always in the hand of who was in charge of the military.  Why?  If you had a sword they had cannons, if you had a crossbow they had catapults.  Also the normal citizen is not trained to combat and kill like a professional soldier.  Power over a Govt isn't obtained by matching who has more firepower.  You're always going to lose.  Power is obtained through Parliament and voting in a free, democratic and progressive society.

Look at the coups that have taken place in many of those tinpot dictatorships, the first thing they do is take charge of the military. 

With the weapons in the hands of the military establishment today, especially the USA, a few guided missiles in the right corners would disperse any rioting anti-Govt crowd.  I bet the first to run would be those armchair war hawks who have a screenshot of themselves holding an AK15 on their PC.

[Black Red Devil]

6 hours ago, aztek said:

https://townhall.com/columnists/kevinmccullough/2018/02/18/how-to-eliminate-school-shootings-overnight-n2450380

Wow.  Metal detectors at schools, kids in shooting drills, reinforced doors, but here's the clincher.....wait for it.....arm the teachers!  How about kids to wear armours, military style training obligatory twice a week and build schools like castles with crocodile infested waters surrounding it so entrance to the school is only accessible by catapulting.

[Lilly]

22 minutes ago, and then said:

...With his background, he never should have passed and been allowed to buy and had the FBI taken the appropriate steps or if the Broward County Mental Health authorities had employed the Baker Act and put him in mental health care involuntarily, he WOULDN'T have passed the screening.  

This part is all that would have been needed to stop him. The FBI dropped the ball (the big time) here. 

[Aquila King]

1 hour ago, Sakari said:

This is long, but needs said, and read. This is from a teacher, and she should be teacher of the year........

source (and there are many of them)   http://www.ajc.com/news/national/florida-school-shooting-teacher-the-year-emotional-facebook-post-goes-viral/4i4fjTQctE0c8odjbUsMBM/

No she shouldn't. She's flat-out wrong on a number of fronts, and I'll be glad to dissect her speech here to show it's inaccuracies.

Keep in mind, my mother is a retired teacher with a masters degree plus with over 20+ years under her belt in teaching, and she would strongly disagree with this woman's conclusions. The mere fact that this woman's a teacher does not suddenly make her correct on this issue.

 

1 hour ago, Sakari said:

Okay, I’ll be the bad guy and say what no one else is brave enough to say, but wants to say. I’ll take all the criticism and attacks from everyone because you know what? I’m a TEACHER. I live this life daily. And I wouldn’t do anything else! But I also know daily I could end up in an active shooter situation.

As did my mother, and the many other teachers who I could source who disagree with you. So many though that I won't waste my time. Just Google it.

Honestly just a sad case of cherry-picking here, but go on...

1 hour ago, Sakari said:

Until we, as a country, are willing to get serious and talk about mental health issues, lack of available care for the mental health issues,

Those of us in favor of gun control are asking for things like:

• mandatory safety checks for people, not guns.
• more thorough background checks for people, not guns.
• stricter negligence penalties on people, not guns.

If you're stupid enough to think that activists are p***ed at guns, then you're too stupid to own one.

The vast majority of propositions made by gun control activists have to do with keeping guns out of the hands of the mentally ill, not just straight up bans on guns period. Mental illness is a high priority that both sides agree on. However gun rights activists seem to oppose any actions made to prevent the mentally ill from having access to fire arms.

What's more, they usually also oppose government healthcare benefits, thereby preventing so many of the people who need help from getting the proper help that they need.

Don't act like we just 'wanna take away your guns', we wanna address the mental health issue as well. Yet even that appears to be too much for you.

1 hour ago, Sakari said:

lack of discipline in... the home, horrendous lack of parental support when the schools are trying to control horrible behavior at school (oh no! Not MY KID. What did YOU do to cause my kid to react that way?),

I will agree here that poor parenting strategies are a genuine issue in our society today.

However poor parenting doesn't cause a school shooting. A psychopath with access to high caliber firearms does.

No doubt, if you raise a psychopath under poor parenting strategies, they'll likely do horrible things later on. That much is obvious, and has been known for decades. However poor parenting strategies are a surface level issue, that fails to get to the real root of the problem, which is severe mental health issues and high caliber firearms. Most of these shooters have a history of mental problems with warning signs dating back to early childhood, which shows that parenting has little to do with their mental state.

This is just another attempt to distract from the real issue here.

1 hour ago, Sakari said:

lack of moral values,

Oh come on, where in the world does anyone other than absolute extremist groups like ISIS or Neo-Nazis (and really, even most Neo-Nazis don't support it) support things like school shootings? That isn't a moral value taught by anyone. One of the basic moral tenets of most every society is not to kill. We wouldn't be so disgusted by all of this if we didn't value it life in the first place.

I can't help but feel that this is just another nonsensical conservative Christian talking point carried over into a completely separate issue.

Show me where people in this society lack the basic moral value of don't kill people, and then maybe we'll talk.

1 hour ago, Sakari said:

and yes, I’ll say it-violent video games that take away all sensitivity to ANY compassion for others’ lives, as well as reality TV that makes it commonplace for people to constantly scream up in each others’ faces and not value any other person but themselves, we will have a gun problem in school. Our kids don’t understand the permanency of death anymore!!!

This argument has been used over and over again, and has failed every time. (well, considering millions of people still believe this garbage, I guess it hasn't failed, technically speaking. Although the argument itself has already been proven false, and should be self-evident really.)

There is absolutely no clear evidence to support the claim that videogames are related to mass shootings. You might as well say that a type of food or driving cars is associated with mass shootings, cause after all, we can prove that a number of different shooters ate food and drove cars!

Besides, there have already been a number of scientific studies to see if this claim is true.

"When scholars have examined real-world violence – school shootings, homicide, and aggregated assault – any tiny links between video games and mundane acts of aggression completely disappears. Research done by the US Secret Service and our laboratories have both found that less than 20 percent of school shooters played violent video games with any amount of regularity. Not only is interest in violent video games rare among school shooters, these perpetrators express much less interest in this violent medium than most other individuals. If you were to enter any school in America you would find that about 70 percent of the male students habitually play violent video games. If there is any link between violent video games and school shootings it is in the opposite direction expressed by politicians and researchers examining irritating loud noise exposure – those who perpetrate acts of violence in schools are more than three times less likely to play violent video games than an average high school student."

https://www.rollingstone.com/glixel/features/video-games-school-shootings-w516863

There is absolutely no evidence to support these claims that violent media and real-world violence are connected. As far back as 2011, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that research did not find a clear connection between violent video games and aggressive behavior. (Source: https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/08-1448.ZS.html ) 

And here's an excellent article with tons of sources to actual scientific studies that overwhelmingly prove this videogame = mass shooting nonsense to be nothing more than a straight up myth: https://www.salon.com/2018/02/16/it-is-time-to-end-the-debate-about-video-games-and-violence_partner/

Correlation does not equal causation. Merely noting that a shooter plays videogames (which most actually don't as proven above), does not in any way show that the shooting was caused by said videogames. It's just another pathetic excuse to ignore and divert the real issue: guns in the hands of the mentally ill.

58 minutes ago, Sakari said:

I grew up with guns. Everyone knows that.

Whoops, her bias is showing.

59 minutes ago, Sakari said:

But you know what? My parents NEVER supported any bad behavior from me.

How many mass shooter's parents support mass shootings? I mean really, this is just lazy arguing at it's finest.

1 hour ago, Sakari said:

I was terrified of doing something bad at school, as I would have not had a life until I corrected the problem and straightened my ass out.

Maybe because you aren't a psychopath, and the school shooters are? Ever think of that?

Of course not. Parenting strategies did it. Riiiiight...

1 hour ago, Sakari said:

My parents invaded my life. They knew where I was ALL the time. They made me have a curfew. They made me wake them up when I got home. They made me respect their rules. They had full control of their house, and at any time could and would go through every inch of my bedroom, backpack, pockets, anything! Parents: it’s time to STEP UP! Be the parent that actually gives a crap! Be the annoying mom that pries and knows what your kid is doing. STOP being their friend. They have enough “friends” at school. Be their parent. Being the “cool mom” means not a damn thing when either your kid is dead or your kid kills other people because they were allowed to have their space and privacy in YOUR HOME.

We can sit here and argue parenting strategies all day, but no parenting strategies keep those born with psychopathic tendencies from having access to firearms.

This speech is moving and all, but it's completely unrelated to the real issue. And that's the point.

1 hour ago, Sakari said:

I’ll say it again. My home was filled with guns growing up.

And I'll say it again, your bias is ever apparent here.

1 hour ago, Sakari said:

For God’s sake, my daddy was an 82nd Airborne Ranger who lost half his face serving our country. But you know what? I never dreamed of shooting anyone with his guns. I never dreamed of taking one!

Do you know how I know this woman's biased? Because she's bragging about how she grew up amongst guns, and people who shoot guns, and that her family is a bunch of good people. I don't doubt that her family's full of good people.

However she thinks for some reason that because her family of gun owners are good people, then somehow that makes it okay for mentally ill people to have easy access to firearms. She's speaking from the perspective of someone who grew up under a gun-filled culture, rather than someone making objective observations regarding the issue.

1 hour ago, Sakari said:

I was taught respect for human life,

Oh come on, who isn't? Again, not killing people is such a basic value that pretty much everyone besides the occasional sociopath or psychopath understands such a concept.

Bravo lady, you were taught the equivalent of 2+2=4. Naw duh.

2 hours ago, Sakari said:

compassion, rules, common decency, and most of all, I was taught that until I moved out, my life and bedroom wasn’t mine...it was theirs. And they were going to know what was happening because they loved me and wanted the best for me.

This is the last time I'm gonna say it, this has nothing to do with parenting strategies. There's absolutely no evidence that poor parenting strategies equate to mass shootings. Severe mental illness that dates back to early childhood, coupled with access to high caliber firearms is the only logical explanation as to what leads to most all mass shootings.

I'll just leave this list of statistics and charts to prove my point: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/2/16399418/us-gun-violence-statistics-maps-charts

2 hours ago, Sakari said:

There. Say that I’m a horrible person.

This isn't about you lady, it's about mass shootings and gun control. I don't doubt you're a good person. I simply doubt the accuracy of the BS you're currently spewing.

1 hour ago, Sakari said:

I didn’t bring up gun control, and I will refuse to debate it with anyone. This post wasn’t about gun control.

Exactly. That's the whole point of this isn't it? You can't refute any of the arguments or statistics that overwhelmingly show that easy access to your precious high caliber firearms makes the American people far more prone to mass shootings than literally any other country on Earth. So instead of trying to refute the irrefutable, you divert the topic by saying "This isn't about gun control." and refuse to debate it.

Well the fact is, this is about gun control, whether you want to accept the reality of it or not. Refusing to acknowledge this is literally costing the American people thousands of lives.

1 hour ago, Sakari said:

This was me, loving the crap out of people and wanting the best for them.

If you love the crap out of them, then you'd better start acknowledging the real problem lady. Rather than diverting the topic onto unrelated issues that have no basis in reality.

1 hour ago, Sakari said:

This was about my school babies and knowing that God created each one for greatness, and just wanting them to reach their futures. It’s about 20 years ago this year I started my teaching career. Violence was not this bad 20 years ago. Lack of compassion wasn’t this bad 20 years ago. And God knows 20 years ago that I wasn’t afraid daily to call a parent because I KNEW that 9 out of 10 would cuss me out, tell me to go to Hell, call the news on me, call the school board on me, or post all over FaceBook about me because I called to let them know what their child chose to do at school...because they are a NORMAL kid!!!!!

And here we go. She no doubt is part of the Christian right, grown up in a gun culture, and has been indoctrinated since birth to believe guns are good no matter what.

She's confirming the consequent. Believing in something a prior, and then working backwards from her conclusion. Emotionalism is not a substitute for facts.

1 hour ago, Sakari said:

Those 17 lives mattered. When are we going to take our own responsibility seriously?

No, when are YOU gonna take responsibility for this? We know what the answer is, the statistics spell it all out perfectly clear.

Problem is, she's so deep in NRA bought and paid for propaganda that she refuses to acknowledge objective facts that prove her wrong. So she spins it around to be the parent's fault. No, it's society's fault for not making it more difficult for mentally ill people to access high caliber firearms.

Honestly, how do you people not see this?

[RavenHawk]

On 2/18/2018 at 4:58 AM, ouija ouija said:

This seems like a recipe for disaster to me.

Anything else is going to be more of a disaster.  Just leave things alone won’t stop it.  Taking away guns won’t stop it and it’ll degrade our rights.  That’s not good.  Let’s utilize and enforce the laws that are already on the books.  Let’s bring back parental discipline, teach respect for self, others, life, guns, and GOD.  That’s not the easy answer, but it’s not supposed to be.

 

I fear you are too idealistic and not appreciating the reality of such organisations.

Just a note of clarification.  It is not my vision but Washington’s and the Founding Fathers.  I just happen to share it.  It is idealistic, but so is the whole concept of the United States of America.  Americans take the idealistic and make it work.  Why stop now?  It’s time to come out of our comfort zone; leave the safe places behind and go into that Undiscovered Country.  We have all the knowledge, maturity, and courage to do so.

 

Who would they attract as leaders? The local power-crazy, big mouth bully of course.

Pretty much the same kind that are attracted to be President.  The thing is, is that if more people were active in the body politic, the power-crazy, big mouth bully wouldn’t take power.  When people are engaged, then the lowest common denominator finds no fertile ground.  Good leadership is the opposite of power-crazy, big mouth bullies.

 

I think you have too much trust in young men around guns. I don't believe it matters how well they are trained, if they feel they have been 'dissed', made a fool of or feel life is currently unfair to them and there's a weapon to hand they will use it.

I trust in the system that the Founding Fathers gave us.  The closer we stay to that, the better.  Training is everything.  Respect is everything.  Will it stop every act, no.  But we need to stop playing the victim and running away.  Training and engagement will go a long way to mitigate that.  Our sensibilities of today have moved us away from citizenship.  Citizenship empowers the individual with self-reliance and success.  A successful individual is less likely to feel that they have been dissed.  A successful citizen will have respect for others no matter what their color, race, or creed is.

 

Plus, what's to stop these 'militia' groups fighting against each other if they feel wronged? 

Why would they feel wronged?  If we are talking about a well-regulated militia then there are procedures to follow for grievances.  Any violations of this should be dealt with harshly.  For the most part, this pettiness wouldn’t exist if citizenship was practiced.  Again, would it stop everything, no, it wouldn’t.  But it would be a random occurrence and not the new norm.

[Sakari]

7 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

No she shouldn't. She's flat-out wrong on a number of fronts, and I'll be glad to dissect her speech here to show it's inaccuracies.

 

Damn....I have never seen someone get so upset over anothers opinion. And, no, she is not wrong at all. It was filled with facts.

Millenials........ugh

Edited February 19, 2018 by Sakari

[Lilly]

1 minute ago, Aquila King said:

 

Problem is, she's so deep in NRA bought and paid for propaganda that she refuses to acknowledge objective facts that prove her wrong. So she spins it around to be the parent's fault. No, it's society's fault for not making it more difficult for mentally ill people to access high caliber firearms.

Honestly, how do you people not see this?

So you know this teacher personally then? If you don't then you really can't know if she's compromised by propaganda, or if she simply holds a differing opinion. 

However, I do agree that society has changed thereby making access to firearms much easier for mentally ill people. But, it's also the fault of parents who have absolutely no idea what their children are thinking about or planning on doing. 50 years ago when I was a teenager there were plenty of guns...but this type of thing just didn't take place. Now why is this I wonder? I know the answer...do you? 

 

[Aquila King]

17 minutes ago, Sakari said:

Damn....I have never seen someone get so upset over anothers opinion. And, no, she is not wrong at all. It was filled with facts.

Millenials........ugh

First of all, her 'opinion' is costing innocent people their lives.

Second, a full-length refutation is not me being 'upset' over anything. My objection is rational, not emotional.

And finally, if you can't refute my arguments, I suppose the only thing left to do is backhand me for my age, huh? You may be older, but try and act more mature.

16 minutes ago, Lilly said:

So you know this teacher personally then? If you don't then you really can't know if she's compromised by propaganda, or if she simply holds a differing opinion. 

I gave a fully rational response as to what led me to that conclusion in the post above that need not bear repeating.

Second, denying statistical facts is not an 'opinion', it is either delusional, indoctrinated, or woefully misinformed.

18 minutes ago, Lilly said:

However, I do agree that society has changed thereby making access to firearms much easier for mentally ill people. But, it's also the fault of parents who have absolutely no idea what their children are thinking about or planning on doing. 50 years ago when I was a teenager there were plenty of guns...but this type of thing just didn't take place. Now why is this I wonder? I know the answer...do you? 

I guarantee you that 50 years ago, we didn't have automatic and semi-automatic assault weapons so readily available, nor was the NRA the propaganda machine it is today.

[Lilly]

6 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

 

I guarantee you that 50 years ago, we didn't have automatic and semi-automatic assault weapons so readily available, nor was the NRA the propaganda machine it is today.

Nope: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle

[thedutchiedutch]

23 minutes ago, Lilly said:

So you know this teacher personally then? If you don't then you really can't know if she's compromised by propaganda, or if she simply holds a differing opinion. 

However, I do agree that society has changed thereby making access to firearms much easier for mentally ill people. But, it's also the fault of parents who have absolutely no idea what their children are thinking about or planning on doing. 50 years ago when I was a teenager there were plenty of guns...but this type of thing just didn't take place. Now why is this I wonder? I know the answer...do you? 

 

I hate to say this but about 51 years ago the Texas tower sniper killed 16 and injured 31 on August 1st at the University of Texas in Austin.

[Lilly]

6 minutes ago, thedutchiedutch said:

I hate to say this but about 51 years ago the Texas tower sniper killed 16 and injured 31 on August 1st at the University of Texas in Austin.

That was a very unusual event, not the norm like it is today. The shooter wasn't a child. Also it was found the shooter had a brain tumor. 

[Paranormal Panther]

15 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

I would never be a politician because I possess a conscience.

There are two ways to look at that. Maybe you should become a politician because you *do* have a conscience.

[Black Red Devil]

 

 

50 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

The vast majority of propositions made by gun control activists have to do with keeping guns out of the hands of the mentally ill, not just straight up bans on guns period. Mental illness is a high priority that both sides agree on. However gun rights activists seem to oppose any actions made to prevent the mentally ill from having access to fire arms.

Are you sure?  A year ago, Congress and Trump eliminated a proposed rule that would have included background database checks on people who received disability payments from Social Security or received assistance to manage their benefits due to mental impairments.

This potentially would have deprived around 80,000 (disabled) people.

Imagine the financial loss the NRA would have suffered by depriving 80,000 people the possibility of buying guns?

Quote

Since 2005, the gun industry and its corporate allies have given between $20 million and $52.6 million to it through the NRA Ring of Freedom sponsor program. Donors include firearm companies like Midway USA, Springfield Armory Inc, Pierce Bullet Seal Target Systems, and Beretta USA Corporation. Other supporters from the gun industry include Cabala’s, Sturm Rugar & Co, and Smith & Wesson.

link

Kids are getting buried and many are trying to defend this industry who wouldn't care less as long as they get their cut!

Edited February 19, 2018 by Black Red Devil

[+ouija ouija]

4 hours ago, Sakari said:

 

 This was about my school babies and knowing that God created each one for greatness,

 

(The above is part of the quote from the teacher, that Sakari posted) 

Leaving aside the fact that there is no God, it's unlikely that even one in a thousand children is destined for greatness ....... and this is part of the problem! No one is brought up anymore with the reality that they will most likely live an unremarkable life and their dreams will not be fulfilled. Contrary to current popular opinion life is worth living even if you don't achieve greatness!  Children these days have completely unrealistic expectations and are devastated when the unfairness of life slaps them in the face.

And as I've mentioned slapping I might as well mention smacking( the gentler version of slapping). Children are now growing up with no expectation of consequences for bad behaviour. Tiny children understand a smack several years before they understand the reasoning behind behaving in a socially acceptable manner. Consequences for bad behaviour need to be dished out by parents very early on in the child's life and maintained right through into young adulthood.

edit to say: with regard to breaking the law/behaving anti-socially, everyone is given too many chances these days. If you don't learn the lesson when you're first pulled up about it then from then on there should be painful consequences.

 

Edited February 19, 2018 by ouija ouija

[Paranormal Panther]

21 hours ago, Likely Guy said:

Not commenting directly at what anyone else here has said recently, but this beast has many legs.

If you choose to tackle just one of those legs, the effort is doomed to failure.

That may be the best point in the thread. My own view is that psychotropic medication is the brain or the heart of the beast. The Left will obsess over guns. The Right will obsess over culture. Both sides likely will ignore psychotropic medication. One could be cynical and skeptical by observing our representatives' ties to pharmaceutical companies. This might be why they won't acknowledge the elephant in the room. All they have to do is use some common sense, to look at blatant correlations, to notice that these crimes have increased as the use of psychotropic medication has increased.

[Paranormal Panther]

18 hours ago, F3SS said:

That sounds great but still wouldn’t matter. Look how many terrorists have struck and we come to find out they were known of already. Heck, this guy in Florida was known to be a loose cannon. He was reported to the fbi and still nothing stopped him. I feel like once somebody is reported to the fbi there isn’t much else one can do, family excluded. 

It's breathtaking! Conspiracy theorists can be excused if they claim that the incompetence is intentional. I know that we supposedly don't hear about the hits, that supposedly outweigh the misses, but we also often learn that the "hits" were orchestrated by putting plans and weapons into the heads and hands of suspects before they're busted for things that they might not have done were it not for the interference of the infiltrators. The one case, that stands out above all others, is the Boston bombing case. The alphabet agencies were warned, more than once, that the Tsarnaevs were dangerous terrorists who were capable of what took place at the marathon and that they probably would do such a thing. It was as if the Russians, who warned us, were joking or lying (in the minds of the agents). A *huge* red flag was tossed to the side as if we were in Bizarro World. Yet, these agents will bring a full court press onto much more minor activities to the extent that it makes you wonder if it's not time for a good, hard look at the whole system.

[F3SS]

17 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

Anyway my understanding is he made a threatening comment on Youtube and they couldn’t identify the poster.  If you want to add harsh comments on Youtube to the FBI’s “to do” list then definitely you need a lot, LOT more FBI agents.

I agree that the fbi certainly lacks the numbers required to investigate every single lead. Hopefully they really are stopping much more than we know about before it happens. 

Im pretty sure it wasn’t a comment. It was said that he made a video in which he said that he wanted to be a professional school shooter.

[Paranormal Panther]

5 minutes ago, F3SS said:

I agree that the fbi certainly lacks the numbers required to investigate every single lead. Hopefully they really are stopping much more than we know about before it happens. 

Im pretty sure it wasn’t a comment. It was said that he made a video in which he said that he wanted to be a professional school shooter.

He left that message in the comments section under a YouTube clip. The person, on whose channel the threat was posted, told the authorities about it.

[F3SS]

2 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

Are you seriously convinced some semi-automatics, double-barrow shotguns and pistols are going to give you the power and control you need to overturn a Govt?   Sorry, didn't want to laugh considering the tragic events that occurred, but really?!  We're not living in the middle ages anymore you know and even then, the power was always in the hand of who was in charge of the military.  Why?  If you had a sword they had cannons, if you had a crossbow they had catapults.  Also the normal citizen is not trained to combat and kill like a professional soldier.  Power over a Govt isn't obtained by matching who has more firepower.  You're always going to lose.  Power is obtained through Parliament and voting in a free, democratic and progressive society.

Look at the coups that have taken place in many of those tinpot dictatorships, the first thing they do is take charge of the military. 

With the weapons in the hands of the military establishment today, especially the USA, a few guided missiles in the right corners would disperse any rioting anti-Govt crowd.  I bet the first to run would be those armchair war hawks who have a screenshot of themselves holding an AK15 on their PC.

If there’s really an us vs them war then forget it. Everybody loses. More than anything our guns are a deterrent from straight up shredding the constitution. It’s naive to think that an armed population bears no consideration on the part of those who desire a more absolute power and that’s really what it’s all about.

 

32 minutes ago, Paranormal Panther said:

He left that message in the comments section under a YouTube clip. The person, on whose channel the threat was posted, told the authorities about it.

Classic first day misinformation. Thanks.

Edited February 20, 2018 by F3SS

[Hawken]

It's tragic what happened in Florida or any school shootings over the years. And something needs done about it. But it seems like there are other problems that also need to be addressed where human life is at stake. Medical Malpractice deaths seems to outweigh Gun deaths. And we put our trust in physicians.

 

[Piney]

@Hawkin and that spiked with insurance profiteers, drug profiteers and Obamacare's "Treat em and ship em, prescribe lots of junk". Not cure them. That's why I paid a mint to a real immunologist and neurologist. If I was on Obamacare, I'd be dead.

[F3SS]

5 minutes ago, Hawkin said:

It's tragic what happened in Florida or any school shootings over the years. And something needs done about it. But it seems like there are other problems that also need to be addressed where human life is at stake. Medical Malpractice deaths seems to outweigh Gun deaths. And we put our trust in physicians.

 

That’s a scary stat. Makes you wonder how could they be wrong so many times. I’m sure some are legit accidents and I’m sure there’s also some dark conspiracy theories behind those numbers.

[RavenHawk]

21 minutes ago, Hawkin said:

It's tragic what happened in Florida or any school shootings over the years. And something needs done about it. But it seems like there are other problems that also need to be addressed where human life is at stake. Medical Malpractice deaths seems to outweigh Gun deaths. And we put our trust in physicians.

 

This just goes to show you that for the gun grabbers, it’s about control and not compassion for the American people.

[acidhead]

52 minutes ago, Hawkin said:

It's tragic what happened in Florida or any school shootings over the years. And something needs done about it. But it seems like there are other problems that also need to be addressed where human life is at stake. Medical Malpractice deaths seems to outweigh Gun deaths. And we put our trust in physicians.

 

 

1 hour ago, Hawkin said:

It's tragic what happened in Florida or any school shootings over the years. And something needs done about it. But it seems like there are other problems that also need to be addressed where human life is at stake. Medical Malpractice deaths seems to outweigh Gun deaths. And we put our trust in physicians.

 

Just curious....

Immediately I'm noticing something wrong with the numbers in this graph.

What is the breakdown on the suicide deaths and firearm deaths?

The total firearms deaths is obviously including suicide deaths from a firearm.

 

[Kismit]

50 Years of mass shootings in the U.S.

Mass shootings to the best of my ability here will be aimed at shootings of four or more people in open areas and public private facilities and not within the home environment. This maybe excluded in the FBI study which covered a wide range of information but was noted did not contain information about any of the fire arms used.

The timeline I use begins in 1966 with the texas tower shooting in which 14 people where killed and 31 wounded. In the 50 years prior to the texas tower shooting there where only 25 mass shootings in America (B) and 150 in this catergory since (B)

There was a significant increase in events around 1998-99(B) it is notable that there was a 71% increase in handgun ownership at the same time(c). 1999 was also the time of the columbine shooting, That was 19 years ago. The columbine shooting caught armed officers off guard and lead to significant overhauls in procedures and training to stop active shooters (B) However the increase in active shooter incidents since 1999 has steadily trended upwards and not downwards (a,B,c) this would seem to indicate that these procedural changes have not infact stopped active shooters. 

Another significant increase occurs after 2004, coincidentally with the ending of the assault weapons ban (B) With 7 out of the 10 deadliest shootings happening between 2018 & 2008 (B)

According to the FBI study between 2000-2013 in 160 incidents, 21 where ended when unarmed civilians intervened with the active shooter, and only 5 when an armed civilian (1 an off duty police officer) intervened. In 45 incidents where law enforcement engaged in fire with an active shooter, 9 officers where killed and 28 wounded(a). This would indicate that arming civilians would also put them at significant risk of more than 50% chance of injury and 5% chance of death.

In 6 incidents where an active shooter killed more than four people between 2000-2013, armed officers where on the scene before shots where fired (a) The presence of armed Law enforcement did not deter the active shooter from commiting murder. 

This took a significant amount of time to put together. I would be disapointed if people didn't read it and at least question my research.

Edit to Add: of the 292 guns used in mass shootings since 1966, 167 where purchased legally (B)

Source(a): A study of active shooter events in the US btween 2000 -2013 (F.B.I.)

Source(B): The Washington Post

Source(c): The Guardian