Parkland School Shooting Discussion Thread

[Essan]

Surely the question - and thus the solution - is "why do so many American school children shoot their peers?"

If they dont shoot them they will blow them up or burn them or poison them or .....  

removing the means to a crime does not reduce the desire to commit the crime

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

15 minutes ago, Essan said:

Surely the question - and thus the solution - is "why do so many American school children shoot their peers?"

If they dont shoot them they will blow them up or burn them or poison them or .....  

removing the means to a crime does not reduce the desire to commit the crime

Which is why we need to bandaid the problem (And Then’s solution is expensive but probably the only band aid that’ll work) AND work to fix the other issues. Mental Heatlh Care has to be at the forefront of the long term solutions.

[aztek]

problem is mental health solution will hit medical cartel very hard , they are holding gvmnt by the balls, and have it in their pockets. it will never happen with the way us politics are today, so much easier to redirect peoples outrage to gun laws, and cover up real issue. 

[Setton]

3 hours ago, aztek said:

if football coach was armed he would not have to shield students, he'd kill the attacker, he'd  stay unhurt and saved students. he was in a position to do something, but had no means

And if the attacker wasn't armed, the coach wouldn't have to shield students or take a life himself. 

But I guess we know which scenario you prefer. 

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

12 minutes ago, Setton said:

And if the attacker wasn't armed, the coach wouldn't have to shield students or take a life himself. 

But I guess we know which scenario you prefer. 

Yes, he’d prefer the one where it never had to happen because all of the contributing factors were addressed after Columbine.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

32 minutes ago, aztek said:

problem is mental health solution will hit medical cartel very hard , they are holding gvmnt by the balls, and have it in their pockets. it will never happen with the way us politics are today, so much easier to redirect peoples outrage to gun laws, and cover up real issue. 

Well, luckily you have the first and second amendments. You have the power to change your government when it ceases to govern to your approval. Bloody well use it and stop these murders!

Edited February 22, 2018 by Sir Wearer of Hats

[Setton]

24 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Yes, he’d prefer the one where it never had to happen because all of the contributing factors were addressed after Columbine.

One would assume so. And yet this is not the attitude we see from aztek. 

Edited February 22, 2018 by Setton

[Paranormal Panther]

13 hours ago, Uncle Sam said:

I wonder how many times does CNN have to be caught before they start acting like a real unbiased news organization.

I hope that's a rhetorical question. Leopards don't change their spots.

[aztek]

1 hour ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Well, luckily you have the first and second amendments. You have the power to change your government when it ceases to govern to your approval. Bloody well use it and stop these murders!

 

it will happen one day, and it will leave millions dead

[Farmer77]

They fired the resource officer for not going into the school during the shooting. This is something that pro gun folks tend to leave out when discussing an armed populace : you cant discount the human factor. 

 

Stoneman Douglas school resource officer stayed outside as shooting unfolded, sheriff says

 

Quote

The school resource deputy at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, waited outside the school building as the shooting unfolded last week, officials said.

Scot Peterson never went in after taking a position on the west side of the building, Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel said at a Thursday afternoon news conference.

May I make a suggestion to anyone named Peterson, don't name you kids scot, scott or any variation thereof. 

[Gromdor]

52 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

They fired the resource officer for not going into the school during the shooting. This is something that pro gun folks tend to leave out when discussing an armed populace : you cant discount the human factor. 

 

Stoneman Douglas school resource officer stayed outside as shooting unfolded, sheriff says

 

May I make a suggestion to anyone named Peterson, don't name you kids scot, scott or any variation thereof. 

I don't begrudge him.  Police won't charge in to save people.  They are trained to prioritize their own safety first and wait for SWAT. 

It does put a "damper on the armed guards will stop this" argument.  Most people will choose the "flee" option in Fight/Flee unless cornered.  I certainly don't expect teachers to be braver than the cops, either.

[Farmer77]

Just now, Gromdor said:

I don't begrudge him.  Police won't charge in to save people.  They are trained to prioritize their own safety first and wait for SWAT. 

I had that same thought. I know PD's have been updating their procedures but historically wait for backup has been the protocol. I'm guessing we'll see some lawsuits flying over this one. 

[.ZZ.]

8 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

I don't begrudge him.  Police won't charge in to save people.  They are trained to prioritize their own safety first and wait for SWAT. 

Wrong.

How many links should I provide to disprove that ignorant statement?

[Gromdor]

3 minutes ago, .ZZ. said:

Wrong.

How many links should I provide to disprove that ignorant statement?

 https://www.thebalance.com/swat-team-member-job-information-974843

"Traditionally, SWAT teams served as the primary response to active shooter situations; when these situations occurred, officers would create a perimeter and wait for the SWAT team to make entry.  As those situations have proliferated in recent history, police are no longer waiting for SWAT and are instead developing training and tactics to eliminate the threat as quickly as possible to minimize casualties."  

Their training and tactics still prioritize their own safety first.  No police dept trains "Heroes".

[Farmer77]

3 minutes ago, .ZZ. said:

Wrong.

How many links should I provide to disprove that ignorant statement?

Nah man this is something that has been discussed for years. 

After Pulse, police may need to change tactics, report says

Quote

Local law enforcement agencies should create policies specifically for terrorism involving suicide bombers or hostage situations, researchers from the Police Foundation suggested in a new journal article that examines lessons from the mass shootings in Orlando — where 49 people died — and San Bernardino, Calif.

The article addresses concerns about why Orlando Police waited more than three hours to confront gunman Omar Mateen, who called 911 during the June 12 attack to declare his allegiance to ISIS while holding some of the survivors hostage.

People inside the club, some of them gravely wounded, repeatedly dialed 911 and called and texted family members to plead for help.

“It should be stressed ... that the police responding to the attack followed protocols and best practice for hostage situations …” the researchers wrote. “Recognizing that the threat of such extremist terrorism represents a continuing, if not growing threat, it may be appropriate to develop specific protocols for hostage events during terrorist attacks.”

 

[.ZZ.]

What a wimpy world you younger people live in.

[Gromdor]

I mean think about it.  Are you really expecting police/security guards/teachers to run like lemmings into an unknown shooting situation without knowing the number of attackers or weapons/bombs to play hero and end it?  The logical thing to do is to secure the perimeter, help people escaping and wait till you have enough people/equipment to control/end the situation.

[Farmer77]

3 minutes ago, .ZZ. said:

What a wimpy world you younger people live in.

I personally think the majority of our problems with police come from day one training : getting home alive is all that matters. I mean I certainly understand the logic on a personal level but I think when your paycheck is coming from the public you owe them more than that. 

[.ZZ.]

1 minute ago, Farmer77 said:

I personally think the majority of our problems with police come from day one training : getting home alive is all that matters. I mean I certainly understand the logic on a personal level but I think when your paycheck is coming from the public you owe them more than that. 

I wouldn't want to be in a foxhole with either one of you.

[Gromdor]

1 minute ago, .ZZ. said:

I wouldn't want to be in a foxhole with either one of you.

Strange, because my words are almost identical to what the military told me when I was in training.  

[Michelle]

17 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Strange, because my words are almost identical to what the military told me when I was in training.  

When seconds mean life or death you have to weigh the odds.

[.ZZ.]

47 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

I personally think the majority of our problems with police come from day one training : getting home alive is all that matters. I mean I certainly understand the logic on a personal level but I think when your paycheck is coming from the public you owe them more than that. 

My apologies amigo.

I let my temper get the best of me.

[+susieice]

This is enough to make you wonder if Cruz and his brother do have an inheritance and the woman who took them in is trying to get it. It seems the court has the say how much she can take. Don't know where all this money is coming from. The mother didn't seem to have any from any reports I saw.

https://nypost.com/2018/02/20/woman-who-took-in-florida-shooter-wants-control-of-his-inheritance/?utm_content=inf_10_2731_2&utm_source=tsefacebook&utm_medium=tsefb&utm_campaign=tse&tse_id=INF_bcf55d20180511e8b994b71562261940

[Uncle Sam]

Here is some information regarding before and after gun bans that have taken effect in United Kingdom, Ireland, and Australia.

Quote

Gun control is designed to stop people from killing each other, at least that’s what we are always told. Let’s take a look at the data:

United Kingdom: The UK enacted its handgun ban in 1996. From 1990 until the ban was enacted, the homicide rate fluctuated between 10.9 and 13 homicides per million. After the ban was enacted, homicides trended up until they reached a peak of 18.0 in 2003. Since 2003, which incidentally was about the time the British government flooded the country with 20,000 more cops, the homicide rate has fallen to 11.1 in 2010. In other words, the 15-year experiment in a handgun ban has achieved absolutely nothing.

Ireland: Ireland banned firearms in 1972. Ireland’s homicide rate was fairly static going all the way back to 1945. In that period, it fluctuated between 0.1 and 0.6 per 100,000 people. Immediately after the ban, the murder rate shot up to 1.6 per 100,000 people in 1975. It then dropped back down to 0.4. It has trended up, reaching 1.4 in 2007.

Australia: Australia enacted its gun ban in 1996. Murders have basically run flat, seeing only a small spike after the ban and then returning almost immediately to preban numbers. It is currently trending down, but is within the fluctuations exhibited in other nations.

For More, Click Here

It took turning Britain into a literal police state to get homicide and other violent crimes under control, meaning taking away the power of the citizens and placing it into the hands of the state. The same didn't happen for Ireland, they didn't flood their state with police, the homicidal crime rate drop at 1975 and has been trending upwards ever since. The only nation that managed to make it work was Australia, a nation where the citizens are already spread thin and has very little major population centers at all which makes it easier to police the state. Plain and simple. Gun control has no significant impact on murder rates. Removing firearms does not typically create massive lawlessness. It is a moot point. Poverty has a greater correlation to violent crime than access to firearms. Education and poverty are directly linked as well.

Next time you hear a left or right politician talking about enacting Gun Control, you should take lessons from history and look at the facts, it usually leads to nations being subject to dictatorship or taken over by invading nations. Our founding fathers understood this, that is way the rights of the people to bear arms shall not be infringed upon. Russia has been a recent prime example of this, they took away the citizens right to own rifles because they see rifles as a way for citizens to overthrow their government. An arm population is a dangerous population to the government if they decide to infringe upon the rights of the citizens.

Edited February 23, 2018 by Uncle Sam

[Tatetopa]

6 hours ago, aztek said:

it will happen one day, and it will leave millions dead

Well now thats something to look forward to, US joins the ranks of Iraq and Afghanistan.  C'mon Aztez there has got to be a better way,