Parkland School Shooting Discussion Thread

[aztek]

Just now, freetoroam said:

The shooter has to get to the classrooms first. If the shooter is even heading that way. A lot of the shootings did not start in the classrooms.

please do not be naive, with new measures they will change tactic as well. and get into school without any issues and start shooting inside. you got to think 1 step ahead.

those are not passion crimes, or heat of the moment crimes, they are planed beforehand, 

Edited February 23, 2018 by aztek

[freetoroam]

3 minutes ago, aztek said:

please do not be naive, with new measures they will change tactic as well. and get into school without any issues and start shooting inside. you got to think 1 step ahead.

those are not passion crimes, or heat of the moment crimes, they are planed beforehand, 

Exactly...they are planned before hand...they can by pass an armed police officer, do you think they will head straight to a classroom where the teachers are armed. Do not be so naive. They will start in cafeterias or outside....oh wait! They have already done that. 

Prevention is better than a bloody shoot out. You can not get through the customs with guns, so how the heck can they get into a school with them....after the records of what had happened in the past?

[aztek]

Just now, freetoroam said:

 

Prevention is better than a bloody shoot out. You can not get through the customs with guns, so how the heck can they get into a school with them....after the records of what had happened in the past?

yes it is better, but you can't prevent 100% some will still do it. you think putting few armed guards at the door will stop  them, and is an adequate measure???? loll now that is naive

customs seriously? that is your argument? thousands tons of drugs, and other contraband, get thru customs, along with many people smuggled in, tsa has 95% failure rate, lol, your argument is void already

Edited February 23, 2018 by aztek

[skliss]

There are plenty of holsters that can be used so the children never see a gun. My friend has a bra holster. 

There is a sheriff near Cincinnati who decided to offer free conceal carry classes to any teacher who applied. He thought he'd get around 20 or so....he immediately got over 500. So now they are considering how to set up classes around the country.

I heard a guy on my talk radio station give an idea. He said instead of waiting for these endless debaters to come up with any kind of action, why not supply schools/teachers with rubber bullet shooting shotguns and lessons. They'll stop anyone in their tracks in a non lethal way, it won't take endless negotiations or law changes to implement this kind of program and students will be protected while the issue is being hashed out.

[freetoroam]

25 minutes ago, aztek said:

yes it is better, but you can't prevent 100% some will still do it. you think putting few armed guards at the door will stop  them, and is an adequate measure???? loll now that is naive

customs seriously? that is your argument? thousands tons of drugs, and other contraband, get thru customs, along with many people smuggled in, tsa has 95% failure rate, lol, your argument is void already

When has drugs been metal. You really think a scanner would not pick up an AK-15? Yep, i can see the problems your schools have now. ARM THE TEACHERS.  Jezze!!!

Why not arm the dinner lady too, how about the janitor? Arm them all. 

This shows how much faith you have in your officers and security guards - NONE. 

[freetoroam]

I just do not get this mentality, Cruz could have been stopped, there were enough warning signs, but instead of doing something about it, people want to wait to see if his threats were serious and would rather a shoot out with the teachers and shooter than prevent him from getting anywhere near the school loaded up. 

As for guards...what is so wrong with having professional armed guards that you would rather the teachers gunned up? Well....i suppose i should eat my own words there as there was an officer on site in Florida and he seemed to go AWOL for a while. Who employed him? The school?

[aztek]

Just now, freetoroam said:

When has drugs been metal. You really think a scanner would not pick up an AK-15?

lol you really think they would try to bring ar15 thru a scanner?  

i know what will happen we are gonna create another fail of federal agency as tsa , we'll spend billions on  it, and it will be as successful as tsa, yes i want to arm people who are most likely to be there when it happens, so far we saw no instances where armed guards did anything, cuz they were either not there in time, or ran away, teachers however showed in every shooting more courage and actions than those failure of the guards did., if they were only armed,.

[Aquila King]

[Essan]

2 hours ago, freetoroam said:

Exactly...they are planned before hand...they can by pass an armed police officer, do you think they will head straight to a classroom where the teachers are armed. Do not be so naive. They will start in cafeterias or outside....oh wait! They have already done that. 

Prevention is better than a bloody shoot out. You can not get through the customs with guns, so how the heck can they get into a school with them....after the records of what had happened in the past?

Or, they will start by shooting the teacher ....

[+susieice]

I'd still prefer to use ex-military or national guard instead of teachers. They can spot a potential threat and these kids that shoot in schools would be a lot less likely to take them on than a teacher, who may or may not be in that particular classroom. Station them around all the entrances.

[Dark_Grey]

31 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

<Cute anti-gun meme>

Armed citizens stop "bad guys" all the time while escaping unharmed. I guess citizens are trained better than Chris Kyle ever was. 

Logic: how does it work? Also, Chris Kyle was a knob who embellished his victories and told lies to sell books.

[Dark_Grey]

31 minutes ago, Essan said:

Or, they will start by shooting the teacher ....

Most likely. But once they leave that classroom, they will have to deal with any number of other armed teachers who are now expecting a firefight. The upper hand still goes to armed, prepared teachers.

[Essan]

4 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said:

Most likely. But once they leave that classroom, they will have to deal with any number of other armed teachers who are now expecting a firefight. The upper hand still goes to armed, prepared teachers.

Assuming the teachers are all clones of John McClane and not Scot Peterson  

[freetoroam]

35 minutes ago, Essan said:

Or, they will start by shooting the teacher ....

Of course...as the shooter will already have the gun in their hands unlike the teacher who will be holding a pencil.

Even if the teachers are armed...the gun man is going to know this and as the teachers jobs are to teach....i can not see them sitting there with gun at the ready while at the same time teaching the students about algebra and geometry. 

 

[freetoroam]

2 hours ago, aztek said:

you really think they would try to bring ar15 thru a scanner?  

Hmm....maybe if there were scanners they would not be able to get to the classroom in the first place( where the teachers are ready and waiting for them, gun in one hand, pen in the other).

Schools can not be open access to everyone...that mean paedo's should not be able to just waltz in, let alone someone who is carrying guns. 

How about the adults who should be protecting the young, act on the warning signs before it gets to the stage where he carries out his threat,

And are scanners and guards not an option for you or would you  rather a shoot out between teacher and shooter. 

 

[+and-then]

7 hours ago, freetoroam said:

So the school had an armed officer on site...what happened to his training?

 

It's a very good question and I suspect, one that he will live with for the rest of his life.  I won't call the man a coward because I have never been faced with running into an active shooter scene but he seems to have lost his nerve or the policies in place kept him from being effective.  I don't know what Florida law is like but in some places in this country, had he run into the room and in the act of neutralizing the killer, hit and killed a student with one of his shots, he could have been tried and imprisoned for his mistake.   This is why ANYONE who would be tasked with such a duty should have to become an expert with the chosen weapon.  Not just once but in a recurring requalification every 6 months or so.  We aren't talking about perfect solutions to this issue, we're attempting to do something to raise the odds against them continuing to be so horrific.

[+and-then]

3 hours ago, freetoroam said:

how the heck can they get into a school with them....after the records of what had happened in the past?

It IS curious, to say the least.  Maybe it's because one Party only wants to push the anti-gun narrative at the expense of anything else?  We have to have compromise for anything to get done in this country and many in Congress would rather let the body counts rise to put pressure on the Second Amendment supporters.  That is a horrific thing to say but it is borne out by the lack of any substantive changes in law or funding since Columbine.  Had schools uniformly been hardened for access and had trained guards - not rent-a-cops - the instances where mass killings could have occurred would have been severely reduced.  Our culture has become sick and some killings will continue, there is no perfect, achievable solution.  But we CAN reduce the numbers, dramatically, if we have the will to do so.

[Setton]

26 minutes ago, freetoroam said:

Of course...as the shooter will already have the gun in their hands unlike the teacher who will be holding a pencil.

Even if the teachers are armed...the gun man is going to know this and as the teachers jobs are to teach....i can not see them sitting there with gun at the ready while at the same time teaching the students about algebra and geometry. 

 

Hell of a way to encourage the kids to listen. 

[Dark_Grey]

34 minutes ago, Essan said:

Assuming the teachers are all clones of John McClane and not Scot Peterson  

Almost 100% of the time, the killer student had no formal training. They're going in with a plan to kill, not a plan to avoid being shot. Yuuuuge difference

[Dark_Grey]

13 minutes ago, and then said:

It IS curious, to say the least.  Maybe it's because one Party only wants to push the anti-gun narrative at the expense of anything else?  We have to have compromise for anything to get done in this country and many in Congress would rather let the body counts rise to put pressure on the Second Amendment supporters.  That is a horrific thing to say but it is borne out by the lack of any substantive changes in law or funding since Columbine. 

It's a sick reality. The news will blast out stories of gun owners destroying their weapons, stories of students marching to "put an end to this", etc. Anything and everything to change public perception and gain support for repealing the Second A. All the while, not offering any solutions other than "BAN ALL GUNZ!!!1"

Edit to add--

If those same news networks regularly published stories about lawful gun owners protecting themselves or stopping would-be shooters, I wouldn't have such a problem with their blatant anti-gun message. But they don't even touch on pro-gun events. To find those stories (of which there are many,) you have to look elsewhere.

Edited February 23, 2018 by Dark_Grey

[aztek]

Just now, Dark_Grey said:

It's a sick reality. The news will blast out stories of gun owners destroying their weapons, stories of students marching to "put an end to this", etc. Anything and everything to change public perception and gain support for repealing the Second A. All the while, not offering any solutions other than "BAN ALL GUNZ!!!1"

i have a feeling those marches are no different from antifa riots,and paid for and organized by same people.

and why would they offer a solution, it's like killing a goose that lays golden eggs

Edited February 23, 2018 by aztek

[freetoroam]

3 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said:

Almost 100% of the time, the killer student had no formal training. They're going in with a plan to kill, not a plan to avoid being shot. Yuuuuge difference

This is true. And their plan is to kill and to be killed....if they do not kill themselves first. ( Harris and Klebold...Lanza). I doubt any of the shooters even consider coming out alive. 

 

[+and-then]

1 minute ago, aztek said:

i have a feeling those marches are no different from antifa riots,and paid for and organized by same people.

I listened to a bit of a "Town Hall" by CNN where Marco Rubio was slandered so badly that it was disgusting.  The NRA spokesperson was treated to what someone else described as the "Two Minute Hate" from 1984.  This isn't dialogue, it's just hateful propaganda and it leads to the next shooting as surely as the sun will rise tomorrow.

[+and-then]

1 minute ago, freetoroam said:

This is true. And their plan is to kill and to be killed....if they do not kill themselves first. ( Harris and Klebold...Lanza). I doubt any of the shooters even consider coming out alive. 

 

All the more reason to make it as difficult as possible for them to get close to their targets before they get their wish of dying.

[aztek]

Just now, and then said:

I listened to a bit of a "Town Hall" by CNN where Marco Rubio was slandered so badly that it was disgusting.  The NRA spokesperson was treated to what someone else described as the "Two Minute Hate" from 1984.  This isn't dialogue, it's just hateful propaganda and it leads to the next shooting as surely as the sun will rise tomorrow.

absolutely by giving it so much attention they are doing casting for next shooter, figuratively speaking