Parkland School Shooting Discussion Thread

[F3SS]

7 minutes ago, Paranormal Panther said:

Come on now, Fess! You have to be 21 to buy alcohol. My friends and I never drank a drop when we were in college. It's illegal to buy pot in most states. No one, in those states, smokes marijuana. If handguns and shotguns were banned, there would be few to no gun crimes. Seriously, on your second subject, I got my speedometer into the triple digits a few times when I had my  Mustang back in the day. I had a Fuzzbuster (remember those?), though.

Lol sorry man, I never heard the term Fuzzbuster but I get the reference. Was that a particular model? I had a ‘95 5.0 for a while. I enjoyed it until a run of the mill late model standard Monte Carlo left me in its dust so within a week I traded it in for my ‘01 Z28 which I’ve set personal law breaking records in. Sadly it’s a driveway ornament these days.

[Paranormal Panther]

19 minutes ago, F3SS said:

Lol sorry man, I never heard the term Fuzzbuster but I get the reference. Was that a particular model? I had a ‘95 5.0 for a while. I enjoyed it until a run of the mill late model standard Monte Carlo left me in its dust so within a week I traded it in for my ‘01 Z28 which I’ve set personal law breaking records in. Sadly it’s a driveway ornament these days.

It was a '92 GT. It wasn't one of the best models, but it was a good ride until it died from mysterious causes in the mid '90s. No mechanic could diagnose or fix it. I have yet to buy my dream car: a red '65 Mustang convertible.

[+and-then]

5 hours ago, freetoroam said:

Maybe we can ask that question to all the students who marched for a change in GUN LAWS

I can promise you this much, "their" solutions will look incredibly similar, if not identical to the solutions being pushed by the Dems in the media and Congress.  But we are to listen to them because they were the victims.  Nothing political here, of course.  

He asked that question of YOU, FTR.  His point in doing so was to show you that you don't have any better idea than the others who are just advocating for "something" to be done.  The problem is that changing laws isn't going to help because murderers break the laws.  Banning guns will lead to much more bloodshed.  Defending the schools can help greatly but no one seems excited about taking any step that doesn't involve removing the rights of innocent, law-abiding citizens.  That is a shame and a disgrace.

[Paranormal Panther]

14 minutes ago, and then said:

I can promise you this much, "their" solutions will look incredibly similar, if not identical to the solutions being pushed by the Dems in the media and Congress.  But we are to listen to them because they were the victims.  Nothing political here, of course.  

He asked that question of YOU, FTR.  His point in doing so was to show you that you don't have any better idea than the others who are just advocating for "something" to be done.  The problem is that changing laws isn't going to help because murderers break the laws.  Banning guns will lead to much more bloodshed.  Defending the schools can help greatly but no one seems excited about taking any step that doesn't involve removing the rights of innocent, law-abiding citizens.  That is a shame and a disgrace.

I agree with your take on the subject. I'm mostly talking about your call for guards and reinforcements. An armed, trained security guard could have stopped the recent killer before he even reached for his gun. Just today, I saw a headline about a school security guard who thwarted a plot, to likely shoot students, after he heard a conversation about it. The likely shooter had ammunition and weapons in his home. Would that the FBI had been so diligent in the Florida tragedy. The guard provided an example of how it should be done. He might have prevented a lot of suffering.

Here's an idea that you may or may not have heard to a great extent. Some expensive homes have safe rooms where residents hide if there are dangerous intruders in their homes. Maybe schools should invest in emergency rooms that are very accessible, and maybe they should add reinforcements to ordinary rooms like the airlines did to cockpits. It would be well worth the cost if it saved just one life.

[.ZZ.]

58 minutes ago, Paranormal Panther said:

No mechanic could diagnose or fix it.

Never.

I could fix it.

What was it doing?

[+and-then]

24 minutes ago, Paranormal Panther said:

I agree with your take on the subject. I'm mostly talking about your call for guards and reinforcements. An armed, trained security guard could have stopped the recent killer before he even reached for his gun. Just today, I saw a headline about a school security guard who thwarted a plot, to likely shoot students, after he heard a conversation about it. The likely shooter had ammunition and weapons in his home. Would that the FBI had been so diligent in the Florida tragedy. The guard provided an example of how it should be done. He might have prevented a lot of suffering.

Here's an idea that you may or may not have heard to a great extent. Some expensive homes have safe rooms where residents hide if there are dangerous intruders in their homes. Maybe schools should invest in emergency rooms that are very accessible, and maybe they should add reinforcements to ordinary rooms like the airlines did to cockpits. It would be well worth the cost if it saved just one life.

I feel the same...if even one life were saved it would be better than arguing interminably while DOING nothing.  Every time there is an argument in Congress over military spending, we are forced to increase domestic (welfare) spending, often an equal or greater amount.  If we can BORROW hundreds of billions for the parties to buy votes then we can borrow what is required to truly harden our school security.  Enough with the noise from those who just want a political talking-point.  The Left will bang the drum and point to the Draconian means that are required to try to keep our kids safe and will say it wouldn't be necessary if only we would employ "sane" gun controls.  Let them.  At least they won't have the continuing bloodshed to point to every few months or years.  The truth of it is that it's the very shredding of conservative norms over the years - norms that THEY have ridiculed and disparaged - that has led to the place we are today.  To hell with them and their opinions about OUR right to keep and bear arms.

[Paranormal Panther]

Just now, .ZZ. said:

Never.

I could fix it.

What was it doing?

Now you tell me! It stalled on the slightest inclines. I took it to garages and mechanics in a few *states*. Maybe you could find pieces of it at some junkyard now. 

[Paranormal Panther]

3 minutes ago, and then said:

I feel the same...if even one life were saved it would be better than arguing interminably while DOING nothing.  Every time there is an argument in Congress over military spending, we are forced to increase domestic (welfare) spending, often an equal or greater amount.  If we can BORROW hundreds of billions for the parties to buy votes then we can borrow what is required to truly harden our school security.  Enough with the noise from those who just want a political talking-point.  The Left will bang the drum and point to the Draconian means that are required to try to keep our kids safe and will say it wouldn't be necessary if only we would employ "sane" gun controls.  Let them.  At least they won't have the continuing bloodshed to point to every few months or years.  The truth of it is that it's the very shredding of conservative norms over the years - norms that THEY have ridiculed and disparaged - that has led to the place we are today.  To hell with them and their opinions about OUR right to keep and bear arms.

It's fine for the genuine protesters, from the high school, to get some kind of catharsis. They more than deserve it. Let them say and write anything that helps hem heal. I'm good with that. The rest of the protesters won't change anything, though. They'll just rant and rave, lie on the floor, walk out of school, and some will get their Soros check. Evil people still will buy guns to commit crimes, no matter what feel-good measures are passed. That much is certain. 

[.ZZ.]

1 minute ago, Paranormal Panther said:

Now you tell me! It stalled on the slightest inclines. I took it to garages and mechanics in a few *states*. Maybe you could find pieces of it at some junkyard now. 

It always came down to:

1) How much money do you want to spend.

2) How long can you be without your car.

I will neither confirm nor deny the existence of an in-car video of someone driving at 160 MPH.

Back to the thread now that IMO has run it's course.

[Michelle]

Tiger Creek Elementary is the first school in Catoosa County, and in the entire region, to test out a high-tech security system called Sielox.

It starts with a color-coded map of the school that teachers can change from their computer, cell phone, or iPad.

"If it's an imminent danger, a medical emergency, or they're just outside at the playground, we will know based on the color of the screen," said Principal David Beard. "It tells us if there's a problem in a particular classroom."

Certain colors send a message directly to law enforcement, giving the Catoosa County Sheriff's Office a real-time look at what's going on inside the school.

The system even tracks movement, so in an active shooter situation, officers could monitor people walking down the halls.

cont...

http://newschannel9.com/news/local/catoosa-county-schools-install-cutting-edge-technology-to-keep-kids-safe

[freetoroam]

4 hours ago, and then said:

I can promise you this much, "their" solutions will look incredibly similar, if not identical to the solutions being pushed by the Dems in the media and Congress.  But we are to listen to them because they were the victims.  Nothing political here, of course.  

He asked that question of YOU, FTR.  His point in doing so was to show you that you don't have any better idea than the others who are just advocating for "something" to be done.  The problem is that changing laws isn't going to help because murderers break the laws.  Banning guns will lead to much more bloodshed.  Defending the schools can help greatly but no one seems excited about taking any step that doesn't involve removing the rights of innocent, law-abiding citizens.  That is a shame and a disgrace.

It is not about banning guns ....  i have not been saying that all through this thread.

It is about not allowing a TEENAGER with mental issues the right to buy them , it is about parents / hosts to be more active in their childrens lives instead of settling for them being locked in their rooms on their computers because it gets them out of their way, it is about the FBI acting on reports instead of thinking it is just another teenager showing off on line, it is about not closing down institutions for people with mental health issues, it is about numerous things and yet i am seeing on here with some,  the only thing they are concerned about is their blooming rights to own a gun.

To the bold....if this teenager was not allowed guns there is no saying he would not have tried something else, and it qould not have cured his mental problems, but it would not have been as easy.  he had the guns in his home and he had his computer to show them off. 

There was no 'work' involved, he had a fatuation with his guns and a hadred towards his school pupils, his weapons where there and ready and what makes it worse is the law said it was legal and the Sneads ( knowing of his mental issues) were quite happy for him to bring them into their home and he was able to make threats on line and the FBI did not want to know. 

What message does that put out to our young generation? basically no one gives a toss as long as you do not get under the adults feet because they are busy.

We are not talking about responsible adult gun owners here. 

I am getting tired with reading about guns owners on here getting defencive over their rights to own a gun....it is not about them or their rights, it is about  innocent young people being protected from the likes of Cruz and Lanza and if they are calling for changes in the laws then that needs to be addressed because so far with the amount of school shootings there have been, the adults who are so protective over their guns have not been over their children.

Again..i am not saying ban guns....i am saying stricter control should be in force on who is allowed one. Yes i know criminals will have them,  but these teenagers shooting up their school did not have criminal records, but they did have a record of mental illness.

 We know crminals break the law...and someone intent on breaking it will go out of their way to do so, this does not mean the law and  law abiding citizens should wash their hands in trying to stop them! 

[+and-then]

5 hours ago, .ZZ. said:

I will neither confirm nor deny the existence of an in-car video of someone driving at 160 MPH

I've topped 120 a couple of times but never would have gone 160.  Isn't it exhilarating how your perception of the road changes at that speed?  Everything seems to narrow down to extreme focus I thought of it as my body telling my mind that "here there be monsters"  like the edges of old maps... LOL - danger!  

[+and-then]

1 hour ago, freetoroam said:

Again..i am not saying ban guns....i am saying stricter control should be in force on who is allowed one. Yes i know criminals will have them,  but these teenagers shooting up their school did not have criminal records, but they did have a record of mental illness.

2

This option sounds completely sensible but the devil is in the details.  Our laws are based on judicial precedent.  If a law is passed that limits a Constitutionally protected right of citizens then that precedent is established for all time going forward.  I heard an excellent explanation of the problem with this today.  A radio personality mentioned rhetorically that he wondered how the Progressives who are howling for new laws would react if a deal was offered like this... Gun rights advocates would trade new restrictions of ownership beyond those already in place if Abortion rights advocates would allow new restrictions on abortions.  BOTH would save lives.  Can you imagine the hell-raising if such an offer were actually made?  The point is that there can't be any "small" adjustments made to such a fundamental right of the citizenry.  There are already laws in place that are designed to keep firearms out of the hands of the mentally ill, domestic abusers and dishonorably discharged military members as well as people who have renounced their citizenship, among other restrictions.  There are millions of 18-year-olds who have never broken a law in their life and new rules that would deny them their right to self-defense by the most common means in the country would be wrong, period.  The argument gets back around to changes in society that make the weapons a deadly threat because of the instability in families, schools, and the general public at large.  Before those changes occurred, access to guns did not lead to such slaughters.  I say again... we CAN make our schools safer without removing any more rights from non-offending citizens.  The only reason it hasn't happened is a lack of political will to spend the money, period.  Some political ideologies would prefer to keep pounding the table relentlessly to demand a disarmed public.  They are patient and they are waiting for that generation that has been dumbed down sufficiently to just hand over their last defense against tyrannical government.  I thank God that at least it won't happen in my lifetime.

 

[Uncle Sam]

What the hell CNN!? This isn't going to help the debate and help us solve this issue! Ugh... beyond disgusting. Conservative student wanted to ask some questions, yet CNN wanted to force him to ask scripted questions.
 

 

[Farmer77]

15 minutes ago, Uncle Sam said:

What the hell CNN!? This isn't going to help the debate and help us solve this issue! Ugh... beyond disgusting. Conservative student wanted to ask some questions, yet CNN wanted to force him to ask scripted questions.
 

 

I'd like to see what it is he was going to say and what it is CNN wanted him to say. 

 

[Farmer77]

21 minutes ago, Uncle Sam said:

What the hell CNN!? This isn't going to help the debate and help us solve this issue! Ugh... beyond disgusting. Conservative student wanted to ask some questions, yet CNN wanted to force him to ask scripted questions.
 

 

Here's the entire news piece 

School shooting survivor refused to ask 'scripted question' during CNN town hall

 

[Uncle Sam]

5 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Here's the entire news piece 

School shooting survivor refused to ask 'scripted question' during CNN town hall

 

I wonder how many times does CNN have to be caught before they start acting like a real unbiased news organization.

[Farmer77]

3 minutes ago, Uncle Sam said:

I wonder how many times does CNN have to be caught before they start acting like a real unbiased news organization.

Seriously? It was a town hall , a produced and managed event, not a breaking news story. The questions in those things are almost always scripted. 

Do you honestly believe that everyone who said how great Trump was at his listening session today wasn't vetted for what they would say prior to being allowed to speak? Would that be OK with you if they were? 

 

[freetoroam]

2 hours ago, and then said:

There are millions of 18-year-olds who have never broken a law in their life and new rules that would deny them their right to self-defense by the most common means in the country would be wrong

No one is saying they should have their rights changed...i am saying if they are mentally psychotic and are receiving treatment and are portraying their guns on line then yes....take their 'toys' away.

Teenagers are not adults and it is not new or a secret that teenagers can be very "sensitive". Put a gun in their hands and you have this:

Quote

 the days since the deadly shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, police have been busy with a flood of copycat threats. At least five people – many of them teenage students, have been arrested across the country

Quote

A 2015 investigation by CNN identified "more than 40 people...charged with Columbine-style plots" since the 1999 Columbine High School massacre and found that almost all were white male teenagers and almost all had studied the Columbine attack or cited the Columbine perpetrators Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold as inspiration.^[44]

There were 11 school shootings in the first 23 days of 2018.^[

Things are not getting better so you can not brush it under the carpet and  getting more arms is not the answer. 

These are teenagers ffs. Many now have seen their friends die, they are scarred from the horrors they have seen, they are grieving and have to rebuild their lives and i seriously do not think giving them a gun to protect themselves is the answer.

As pointed out before....the adults need to step up and protect their children. 

[Michelle]

5 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Seriously? It was a town hall , a produced and managed event, not a breaking news story. The questions in those things are almost always scripted. 

Until recently, it was common to have town halls. They have been so disrupted, by people who refuse to let others speak, they are quickly becoming obsolete.

Ya gotta keep up with the times.

[+and-then]

8 hours ago, freetoroam said:

No one is saying they should have their rights changed...i am saying if they are mentally psychotic and are receiving treatment and are portraying their guns on line then yes....take their 'toys' away.

FTR, that ALREADY is the case, legally.  The problem is that the laws either aren't being enforced or these kids are finding the guns outside the legal channels.  The FBI basically plead mea culpa on Cruz and no one is going to be held accountable.  Whoever failed to take action on this threat needs to be removed from the FBI, period.  17 lives might well have been saved if one person had made a different decision.  

From this point forward there should be zero tolerance for any more excuses concerning school security.  If they have to be made like prisons to keep the young people safe then so be it.  I guarantee two things... first, there would be almost no repeat of such carnage and second, the Left would howl and moan over the steps, saying they were...(insert derision here) because we were failing to take "sane steps" to regulate guns.  With them, it will always be about disarming the population.

eta: I don't mean to give the impression that your ideas are unreasonable - they are quite reasonable compared to many here.  They just depend on a sensible back and forth between non-politicized elements within our nation and that is lacking on this topic.  It has been for many years.

Edited February 22, 2018 by and then

[aztek]

if football coach was armed he would not have to shield students, he'd kill the attacker, he'd  stay unhurt and saved students. he was in a position to do something, but had no means

Edited February 22, 2018 by aztek

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

19 hours ago, and then said:

I feel the same...if even one life were saved it would be better than arguing interminably while DOING nothing.  Every time there is an argument in Congress over military spending, we are forced to increase domestic (welfare) spending, often an equal or greater amount.  If we can BORROW hundreds of billions for the parties to buy votes then we can borrow what is required to truly harden our school security.  Enough with the noise from those who just want a political talking-point.  The Left will bang the drum and point to the Draconian means that are required to try to keep our kids safe and will say it wouldn't be necessary if only we would employ "sane" gun controls.  Let them.  At least they won't have the continuing bloodshed to point to every few months or years.  The truth of it is that it's the very shredding of conservative norms over the years - norms that THEY have ridiculed and disparaged - that has led to the place we are today.  To hell with them and their opinions about OUR right to keep and bear arms.

ALL that would do is shift the massacre site from within the school building to the checkpoint where people are scanned in.

HOWEVER, it a good bandaid solution to implement while the other necessary changes (changed to mental health care, changes to parenting culture etc) occur.

[+and-then]

26 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

ALL that would do is shift the massacre site from within the school building to the checkpoint where people are scanned in.

HOWEVER, it a good bandaid solution to implement while the other necessary changes (changed to mental health care, changes to parenting culture etc) occur.

As it stands today, this "band-aid" could have saved most, maybe ALL of the 17 dead.  The idea that America is going to make such far-reaching changes to our culture in the short-term is unrealistic, maybe impossible.  I'll say it again - doing SOMETHING to secure these schools is a far better solution than just arguing over gun control or anything else.  A small, armed contingent at the entrance to a school would stand a chance of putting one of these rabid dogs down or more likely, dissuading their cowardly heart from even trying the deed.  This isn't about perfect solutions, it's about TRYING to make things better as best we can.

[aztek]

why is it so hard to get, the only person able to respond to situation in time is the one involved in it.,