Parkland School Shooting Discussion Thread

[+and-then]

Just now, Likely Guy said:

Young people aren't the sole problem 'and then', how old was the Vegas shooter?

Oh, I agree, I was just speaking of school shootings.  Trust me, Likely, I realize just how fragile and edgy the modern American can be.  But it's far from being a majority or even a large fraction of adults.  I own many guns, handguns, long guns, and I love target shooting.  I rarely even hunt.  The thought of shooting a human being makes me nauseous.  I believe I am representative of nearly all gun owners in America, regardless of age.  Those who use firearms to slaughter others in such a manner are NOT the average or normative in any way.  I think they can be considered to be mentally ill in the extreme.  Those from outside this country simply cannot understand the deep-seated tradition of gun ownership.  I get that, but it seems to me that despite their intelligence in other areas, they seem unable to grasp the simple concept of supply and demand.  Americans like Pot, Coke, and Heroin, to name a few, and those commodities FLOOD across our southern border.  All are illegal and some have lengthy prison penalties attached but it doesn't stop people from buying and using them.  It would be exactly the same with guns and just like with drugs, until the people decide they don't WANT them, the trafficking would continue.  That isn't aimed specifically at you, BTW, just sayin'  

[Mudflap]

the AR-15 is not a automatic weapon it will only shoot one at a time.

[papageorge1]

27 minutes ago, seeder said:

 

Im in my 50's....I havent a clue what schools do now if they are concerned about a kid....I should think that the teachers can get some agency involved....child welfare for ex.....they must have that equivalent in the US....

I’m sure there are similar services here, but the application in a particular case? I’m sure this will get reviewed. Could someone be responsible for not taking appropriate measures??

[seeder]

8 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

You can keep reassuring yourselves but your the only country with that sort of gun culture, and the only country where this could be considered a regular occurrence. Its just going to keep happening and its obvious to everyone but gun nuts. 

 

and just like that  Abraham Maslow saying...

"when the only tool you have is a hammer....everything starts looking like a nail"

[seeder]

2 minutes ago, Mudflap said:

the AR-15 is not a automatic weapon it will only shoot one at a time.

 

its a semi automatic...

see for yourself...FFWD to 45 secs in

 

 

[Likely Guy]

1 minute ago, Mudflap said:

the AR-15 is not a automatic weapon it will only shoot one at a time.

That's kind of simplistic though, almost like equating it with a bolt-action.

Do we know the weapon type, in this case?

[seeder]

Just now, Likely Guy said:

That's kind of simplistic though, almost like equating it with a bolt-action.

Do we know the weapon type, in this case?

 

yes it was the AR15...see my post above for the vid

[Mudflap]

It's semi automatic . I was just correcting someone up thread that said automatic

 

 

[seeder]

1 minute ago, Mudflap said:

It's semi automatic . I was just correcting someone up thread that said automatic

 

but as the vid demonstrates....its capable of very rapid fire...

 

[Mudflap]

It's a weapon that is still very dangerous and a fast rate of fire especially when it has a large capacity clip on.

Not a weapon that I would want in my opinion it's only built for one thing and we got to see that today and many other times in the past 

 

[+and-then]

8 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Its just going to keep happening and its obvious to everyone but gun nuts. 

psyche 101, I've chewed over a few topics with you in the past 5 years and I've always respected your opinions.  On a few, we disagree completely but the respect is there, regardless.  I actually agree with the bolded above.  I also can understand the frustration of people outside this country when they see such wanton slaughter.  It IS obvious that these shootings are going to continue.  It's heartbreaking every time it occurs but this country has a couple of hundred MILLION guns in circulation.  There will never be a law that will magically cause them to disappear and I doubt there will ever be an elected government here that would attempt confiscation.  It would just be too bloody to be worthwhile.  You are entitled to your opinion of Americans, even to generalize about those whose motives you don't really understand but continually beating the same drum on this topic does nothing except "virtue signaling".  This country was founded by men who wanted to be free of an oppressive government and were willing to kill AND DIE so that they could be free.  It's in our national DNA to distrust government and to make every attempt to keep it as small and weak as possible.  As a last resort, we know that ultimately, we have a way to plead our case at full volume.  If the price for that is that we periodically have these spasms of violence then so be it.  As these events continue, I expect that our representatives will finally work toward PRACTICAL solutions that do more than attempt to pass ever more draconian gun laws and finally spend some resources on hardening and guarding schools from the crazies that do these things.

[+susieice]

I just got home from work and I have to admit, I didn't read through this whole thread. We got the breaking news on TV right around the time we were taking our residents to supper. This kid was 19 yrs old and had been expeled from school last year. He left with the rest of the students and was picked up a few miles away. Someone said the police shot him, but I did not hear that myself. Seventeen are dead. That's all I've heard until I read through this. He must have been angry at the whole school to do what he did. They said he set off the fire alarm and had smoke bombs to cause confusion. I'm just glad he's in custody and still alive. Maybe he will answer some questions before they gas him.

[+and-then]

20 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

I only mentioned assault (automatic) weapons in this thread.

An AR-15 was used in this slaughter.  It isn't an assault weapon.  It is a semi-automatic weapon.  It may seem like a minor point to you but I like to clarify.  An automatic weapon is extremely expensive in the U.S. 15-20 thousand dollars PLUS a very in-depth criminal background investigation before purchase.  A skilled shooter could take a Ruger 10-22 or similar semi-auto .22 caliber shooting long rifle cartridges and kill as many or more people if given the same amount of time.  And I have every confidence that if AR-15's and AK style weapons are banned, it wouldn't be very long before the next demand would include ANY autoloading firearm.  I know this because the Left in this nation has shown the desire to get rid of ALL guns.  It simply isn't ever going to happen so I hope they will work with the rest of us to find another solution that is practical.  NO ONE wants this carnage.  To assume that NRA members actually want it is insulting and specious.

[+and-then]

Just now, susieice said:

I wonder if any of these kids expressed their concerns to school administration or police last year when they realized this boy could be dangerous.

My guess is, no.  If they were laughing about it, they mostly weren't taking it seriously and the few who might have, probably were worried that they'd be targeted by him when he found out.

[Aquila King]

4 hours ago, toast said:

How long will the pro-gunners accept such tragic bills for their "freedom"?

Since half the American populace live in their own reality anyway, there will continue to be mass shootings where innocents die until these idiots who care about their guns more than innocent lives eventually die out and are replaced by millennials who are overwhelmingly liberal, and who will eventually solve the issue themselves. That is, if enough millennials survive and aren't gunned down senselessly.

Until then, more senseless gun deaths will continue to ensue...

[psyche101]

27 minutes ago, seeder said:

 

and just like that  Abraham Maslow saying...

"when the only tool you have is a hammer....everything starts looking like a nail"

I'm going to steal that. Very clever 

 

[+susieice]

Just now, and then said:

My guess is, no.  If they were laughing about it, they mostly weren't taking it seriously and the few who might have, probably were worried that they'd be targeted by him when he found out.

Kids need to be aware and report what they hear to authorities. No one needs to know who said something. Recently, two different potential shooting were stopped in Western PA because someone reported what they heard the student saying. A lot of weapons were found in the boy's room, including rifles, handguns, machetes and a crossbow. Kids need to take someone's threats seriously and tell someone.

[papageorge1]

16 minutes ago, Mudflap said:

It's a weapon that is still very dangerous and a fast rate of fire especially when it has a large capacity clip on.

Not a weapon that I would want in my opinion it's only built for one thing and we got to see that today and many other times in the past 

 

I don't see why anyone needs an automatic weapon. At least 67 people were shot or injured in Florida. 

With the old-fashion method, people could only shoot about four or five people before a hero would tackle them.

 

[seeder]

8 minutes ago, and then said:

An AR-15 was used in this slaughter.  It isn't an assault weapon.  It is a semi-automatic weapon.  It may seem like a minor point to you but I like to clarify.  An automatic weapon is extremely expensive in the U.S. 15-20 thousand dollars PLUS a very in-depth criminal background investigation before purchase.  A skilled shooter could take a Ruger 10-22 or similar semi-auto .22 caliber shooting long rifle cartridges and kill as many or more people if given the same amount of time.  And I have every confidence that if AR-15's and AK style weapons are banned, it wouldn't be very long before the next demand would include ANY autoloading firearm.  I know this because the Left in this nation has shown the desire to get rid of ALL guns.  It simply isn't ever going to happen so I hope they will work with the rest of us to find another solution that is practical.  NO ONE wants this carnage.  To assume that NRA members actually want it is insulting and specious.

 

 

Heres a thought for anyone in the world who has seen quality Brit movies...no lets expand that and incl European movies... barely a gun is seen unless its a war or gangster film

However by contrast....just about EVERY US film Ive seen...is all about shoot outs and high speed car chases etc...killing people etc....we get an awful lot of US movies and series and docu's over here....in a way you could say your film industry and even TV industry constantly promotes gun use... and YES....movies and the like DO influence people

 

 

Edited February 15, 2018 by seeder

[Likely Guy]

18 minutes ago, Astra. said:

The horrible church slaying in Texas jumps to mind as well. If memory serves right, he was into his mid/late 20's I think.

Usually there is a motive to the madness.

This case, former student - same as Sandy Hook and Columbine.

The church shooting in Texas, mad at his ex-wife and mother-in-law. The other church shooting, Dylan Roof wanted to start a race war with blacks.

Rabid Islamist kills 'Christians', rabid 'alt-rightist' here in Canada kills Muslims.

Vegas shooter hated everyone, especially country music.

The sad thing is, is that these shootings are becoming one long blended blur and not one elected official is willing to address the root causes (n.b.: causes) because that's too difficult to address. It's way easier to blame just access to guns, or big pharma, or video games, or the disconnected young people, or religion, etcetera, etcetera...

The sad thing is, is that while we continue to have our petty arguments and differences without addressing the entire issue, the bodies will continue to pile up

/rant over. 

[+susieice]

CNN is reporting fifteen are in hospital, five with life threatening injuries. Such a horrible, horrible tragedy.

[Mudflap]

7 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

I don't see why anyone needs an automatic weapon. At least 67 people were shot or injured in Florida. 

With the old-fashion method, people could only shoot about four or five people before a hero would tackle them.

 

I agree with that, I see no reason why someone would need a 30 round clip for a weapon. 

Edited February 15, 2018 by Mudflap

[Aquila King]

Picture's worth a thousand words.

 

Yet all it'll ever be is words. No action...

[+susieice]

I got this from FOX. Apparently, even teachers were aware of this boy's problems. There is good video of his arrest. It doesn't say he was shot and he doesn't appear to be. They do put him on a stretcher and put him in an ambulance, hopefully to go to a hospital with a psych unit for a thorough evaluation.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/14/nikolas-cruz-identified-as-florida-high-school-shooting-suspect-reportedly-showed-warning-signs.html

[seeder]

7 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Quote

 

and just like that  Abraham Maslow saying...

"when the only tool you have is a hammer....everything starts looking like a nail"

 

 

 

 

I'm going to steal that. Very clever 

 

 

Brilliant isnt it?  Lets see that in use, one example anyway...

UK man says..."In case we get burgled lets get a good burglar alarm installed, some CCTV cameras...and join the Neighbourhood Watch scheme, Oh an I will keep a big stick under the bed"

US man says:   "Ha let 'em burgle us...then I can legally shoot the man dead because Ive got a Colt 45 to blow that suckers head off"

 

The reason I LOVE that saying is that once the meaning is understood.... well.... its a great metaphor for the US gun culture... other countries find ways around potential problems...US folk seemingly....BUY A GUN so as not to have any problems...

 

Note to US folk  Yes I AM aware you are NOT ALL gun fanatics... so please dont correct me...